Leo. Two masters? Say one thing do another maybe?

darn it,17th, i hate being put on the spot. lol. anyways i guess i brought this on myself. first i will have you know that i think you are a pretty cool dude and that i have nothing against you at all. the reason i brought up the "serving two masters" thing is because as i stated on the other thread was that i had been reading your posts and from what i read it just "seems" like you served two masters. i think back then i gave you a scripture about that. it goes like this:
Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
anyways, i have nothing but admiration for you, for i know that you are seeking His Face always, it is just that this corrupted flesh can get the best of us sometimes. especially me. i have nothing but concern for you and i would hate to see you fall. that would truly break my heart. especially with the knowledge you have about God. as you mentioned before, you used to be a jw, but you had a falling away for some reason. it sucks when people you know actually let you down. believe me, i know how that feels.
 
What if, say, no one has let me down? And I have already fallen?

Just out of curiosity, the knowledge I hold of god, shows that he is my master? And what shows I have another master and who would that master be? ;) What do you get from the following quote;

"No man is free, who is not a master of himself."
Epictetus..
 
17th Angel said:
What if, say, no one has let me down? And I have already fallen?
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that breaks my heart, man. it really does. as i said, when you have knowledge of God and you still can't see Him, then that is terrible. you probly already read this.

II Peter 2 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
Just out of curiosity, the knowledge I hold of god, shows that he is my master?
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i would certainly hope so! i pray He is your master!

And what shows I have another master and who would that master be?
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;)
you ask "what shows"? their is doubt in your words. they don't sound like one who is on the narrow path. the words sound too broad, if you catch my drift. i am no one to say who is your master. that is for you to decide.

What do you get from the following quote;
"No man is free, who is not a master of himself."
Epictetus
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is this a trick question? i don't understand it. it sounds like no one is free, but they are not a master of themselves? sorry, i don't understand it really.:o
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LeoSalinas22 said:
that breaks my heart, man. it really does. as i said, when you have knowledge of God and you still can't see Him, then that is terrible. you probly already read this.

II Peter 2 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
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Do not let it break your heart. Each is responsible for his actions... Interesting choice in scripture, indeed I have read it… Meaning? That those who –believe- in the scripture but do not follow it, are worse than those who act in blind innocence..


LeoSalinas22 said:
is this a trick question? i don't understand it. it sounds like no one is free, but they are not a master of themselves? sorry, i don't understand it really.:o
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No trick, just what it would mean to you... So you would say, that it is impossible to become one's own master?

With me, I have an understanding and a knowledge of christianity and satanic ways... But, I wouldn't claim either side... I feel I am my master... Even with god it's a 50 50 thing I am obviously not 100% sure that he does or doesn't exist... But either way, I couldn't allow him to be my master. I simply do not wish for that, I wouldn't be happy, and I wouldn't be.... Free. But, Is it wrong to offer others to choose him as a master? "Go with christ brah!" I indeed wish to be my own master, but not master of others.
 
17th Angel said:
Do not let it break your heart. Each is responsible for his actions... Interesting choice in scripture, indeed I have read it… Meaning? That those who –believe- in the scripture but do not follow it, are worse than those who act in blind innocence..
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but it does break my heart because i know you are so close but yet so far away. it saddens me because others didn't explain scripture to you well enough or showed you the beauty of God properly. in turn it leaves you at a 50-50 state of mind instead of 100 percent. to me the scripture means that it will be a heck of alot more difficult to return to God if you already have all the lustful desires fullfilled and acknowledge that they feel good or right. so we are at a worse state than we were in the beginning.


No trick, just what it would mean to you... So you would say, that it is impossible to become one's own master?
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it is very possible to be your own master. look at us. we are "going to and fro in the earth, and are walking up and down in it." we go where we want, do what we want as well. just like a particular entity we are all familiar with and are holding hands with everyday, unfortunately.:( me, i learned the hard way that i cannot be my own master. perhaps one day i will tell you how i learned. He will always be my Master.

With me, I have an understanding and a knowledge of christianity and satanic ways... But, I wouldn't claim either side... I feel I am my master... Even with god it's a 50 50 thing I am obviously not 100% sure that he does or doesn't exist... But either way, I couldn't allow him to be my master. I simply do not wish for that, I wouldn't be happy, and I wouldn't be.... Free. But, Is it wrong to offer others to choose him as a master? "Go with christ brah!" I indeed wish to be my own master, but not master of others.
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remember, 17th, you can't serve God and mammon at the same time. you either hate one or love the other. you said in one of the posts that you choose life. i hope you meant God.
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17th Angel said:
Would you fairly say it is life? Or service? If you choose god?
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there are two kinds of life. there is life in this world. which to me, doesn't matter, because scripture has explained it in the way that if you are a friend of this world, then you are an enemy of God. and trust me when i say this, i used to be a friend of this world, and all it brought was confusion and i was lost. then there is life that is not of this world. which to me means everything. yes, i am serving. what is wrong with that? God thru me, uses me to help the oppressed and needy. is there no honor in that? even if i knew that God wasn't real, i would still believe in Him. look around you. do you like what you see? i don't. i used to believe that we could help ourselves, even without God. but that is impossible without Him. we are just getting worse. seen the news lately? you would see what i mean.
 
I never watch the news.... :)

Indeed there are bad things going on in this world... But, to blame it on the Devil... That is just poor.. Poor excuse.. I make a mess up.. I am to blame. Not god, nor satan... I do something amazing.. I am to praise not god nor satan.... Taking responsibility for one's actions.... :)
 
you are absolutely right when you say you take personal accountability. we wouldn't want to do the same thing adam and eve did.

Genesis 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

Genesis 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

too, much finger pointing if you ask me! makes you wonder though, how things would be different had adam and eve repented and asked
God for forgiveness.
 
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17th Angel said:
So, you do not believe all praise and glory should be reserved for god? By rite?
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no, i don't believe.... i know that all praise and glory should be reserved for God because it is His right to have. after all He did mold us out of the dust of the earth! sides, what are you trying to get at, 17th! stop beating around the bush! lol.
 
LeoSalinas22 said:
no, i don't believe.... i know that all praise and glory should be reserved for God because it is His right to have. after all He did mold us out of the dust of the earth! sides, what are you trying to get at, 17th! stop beating around the bush! lol.
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I believe God shares part of His glory with Man/Woman. God gave Man and Woman something to be proud of and left him/her to pursue that object of pride, honour and glory. It's part of every human being's individual/personality identity to pursue the goal and reach his/her full potential.

We are "gods" and "masters" to some extent, and possess "some form of dominion," but our purpose in life is to serve some Higher God and Master and not think of ourselves as the summit or pinnacle of our own identity.

But nevertheless, choosing to serve does not mean one loses one's spontaneity.
 
I do something amazing.. I am to praise not god nor satan.... Taking responsibility for one's actions.... :)
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i am so sorry, this completely flew over my head. didn't even see this! no, 17th, i completely disagree with this statement. except the part of not praising the adversary, that i agree with!
 
Saltmeister said:
I believe God shares part of His glory with Man/Woman. God gave Man and Woman something to be proud of and left him/her to pursue that object of pride, honour and glory. It's part of every human being's individual/personality identity to pursue the goal and reach his/her full potential.
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yeah, but don't you think that pride is what messes up the world right now? i mean look at what the serpent told eve,

Genesis 3 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. eve ate the fruit because she wanted honor and glory, like God. she gave in to pride. she wanted to be her own god. have her own identity. you are right, though, it is natural to want to pursue our own goals, though. but, to me, i think that is selfish that we want to do that. again, to me!
We are "gods" and "masters" to some extent, and possess "some form of dominion," but our purpose in life is to serve some Higher God and Master and not think of ourselves as the summit or pinnacle of our own identity.
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yes, we are gods and masters in a chaotic, disorderly, sick, and twisted kinda way. but, we will be in the righteous way for it is written:
Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. you are absolutely right when you say that we shouldn't think much of ourselves for again it is written:

Revelation 4 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
But nevertheless, choosing to serve does not mean one loses one's spontaneity.
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what do you think peter meant by this?
I Peter 3:8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
hope to hear from you soon.
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LeoSalinas22 said:
...when you have knowledge of God and you still can't see Him, then that is terrible...
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There is a verse at the end of the book of Job, wherein he makes quite a profound statement about God:

Job 42:5 "My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you".

This means that before the tribulations put upon Job, he'd heard of God (had knowledge of), but after the test of his faith, Job finally "saw" God.

Sometimes it takes a test of faith, before one can see God. That test of faith may be for an instant, or for a life time. It's up to God, based on the character and substance of the one being tested.

Some need only an instant, while others may require a long period of time and experience before the scales fall from the eyes.

Paul for example, was more or less convinced after three days, but took a life time of troubles and experiences to be refined in his faith (and trust). Same goes for Peter (who wassled back and forth with his will vs. God's will).
 
Quahom1 said:
There is a verse at the end of the book of Job, wherein he makes quite a profound statement about God:

Job 42:5 "My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you".

This means that before the tribulations put upon Job, he'd heard of God (had knowledge of), but after the test of his faith, Job finally "saw" God.

Sometimes it takes a test of faith, before one can see God. That test of faith may be for an instant, or for a life time. It's up to God, based on the character and substance of the one being tested.

Some need only an instant, while others may require a long period of time and experience before the scales fall from the eyes.

Paul for example, was more or less convinced after three days, but took a life time of troubles and experiences to be refined in his faith (and trust). Same goes for Peter (who wassled back and forth with his will vs. God's will).
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i am not going to argue with you, q. you are absolutely right! but 17th seems to be a special case beause he used to be a jw and a neo nazi! (not that i am saying that job's case wasn't special, because it was!) he has knowledge of God and of satan. i seem to have the same problem, too. i too have eatened of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. it is the evil part that i have so much trouble letting go. it is like a thorn on my side. i assume that 17th has the same issue. no, let me rephrase that, it is mankind that has the same issue! i mean how can we forget our sins? it is so impossible. but then again, nothing is impossible thru God, right,q?
 
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LeoSalinas22 said:
yeah, but don't you think that pride is what messes up the world right now? i mean look at what the serpent told eve,

Genesis 3 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. eve ate the fruit because she wanted honor and glory, like God. she gave in to pride. she wanted to be her own god. have her own identity. you are right, though, it is natural to want to pursue our own goals, though. but, to me, i think that is selfish that we want to do that. again, to me!
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Pride is an important aspect of manhood and Man is God's creation. Pride is similar with self-respect, but there's the pride that corrupts and there's the pride that keeps us in line. I have no idea what pride means for a woman, though. There must be something else that keeps a woman in line . . .

I think pride becomes wrong only when we exceed certain limits (ie. lack of contentment -- going beyond what you needed -- asking for too much).

LeoSalinas22 said:
what do you think peter meant by this?
I Peter 3:8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
hope to hear from you soon.
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Oh . . . by "spontaneity" I didn't mean "do what you like" but "to be natural in doing what you do."

For example, if we're asked to be nice to each other, we shouldn't do it just because we're following rules or trying to impress someone. We should do it because that's what we'd naturally do. We do it because we want to do it and because we feel like doing it. ie. Spontaneous compassion and love.

If love and compassion were things we did naturally and spontaneously, that would be the ideal. It would be like what happens in the natural world. A flower opens up when the right reason comes . . . A call of nature. :)

The reason why it doesn't happen is because Adam and Eve ate the wrong fruit and got poisoned.:eek: Then they got banished from the Garden of Eden so they couldn't eat from the Tree of Life. If we had access to the Tree of Life, I reckon love and compassion would come more naturally to us.

I want to be good. Sorry!!! Nature's calling. I want to be bad.

Mum said not to eat those chocolates. Call of nature!!! Yum!!!

Love and compassion comes when nature calls for something good rather than something bad.

I hate that person. Call of nature!!! What was I thinking? No, this is wrong. Now that I know that person better, I don't hate anymore. Actually, I like that person now. How tragic was it that I hated that person?
 
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