When all phenomena is erased

Discussion in 'Hinduism' started by bhaktajan, Jun 7, 2010.

  1. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan New Member

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    God is the Absolute Supreme Personality of Godhead.
    Because God is Absolute, He is his own Person.
    That Absolute Person must be known precisely as he Absolute exists ---all other forms/thoughts/Ideas of God are only indications of that Absolute Person.

    God's Absolute Personality of Godhead Status indicates that He is absolutely His own Persona. This absolute status is only known through the Vedas where His Absolute Personality is spelt out.

    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
    On the other hand:

    When all varigated phenomena is erased,
    when all Space is erased,
    when all time is erased . . .

    A] there still exists the potential for "Three-Dimensions".

    B] there still exists the potential for "Locomotion"

    By my use of the appellation "Potential", I am saying that even in a situation devoid of matter & energy & time & Space . . . there is still Potential for "Three-Dimensions" along with "Locomotion" ---irregardless of who/what/how initiates creation or whether there is an absolute state that transcends material phenomena ---there exists as a pre-creation/substratum/pre-requisite meta-physical blank page that ALLOWS for even empty space to occupy itself before its creative play:

    "Three-Dimensions" along with "Locomotion" lay fallow until it is utilised ---yet interestingly, never are these "3-Dimensions" along with "Locomotion" actually a manifest; they don't manifest as entities unto them selves and yet they underlie all potential possibilities.

    You can't measure "Three-Dimensions" along with "Locomotion".
    You can't make them under your control ---they are a nuetral state that allows even the void to come and go as epochs pass into oblivion again and again.

    When all is erased there sits "Three-Dimensions" along with "Locomotion"; selflessly, or as the prime self?

    C] there still exists the potential for "onomatopoeia"
    [onomatopoeia = the naming of a thing or action by a vocal imitation of the sound associated with it (such as buzz or hiss). Onomatopoeia may also refer to the use of words whose sound suggests the sense.
    from Gk. onomatopoiia "the making of a name or word" (in imitation of a sound associated with the thing being named), from onomatopoios, from onoma (gen. onomatos) "word, name" (see 'name') + a derivative of poiein "compose, make" (see 'poet').]
     
  2. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan New Member

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    BEFORE all Phenomena is erased:

    "The Material World according to the Vedas & Bhagavad-gita"
    The "8 elements" (From gross to Subtile) that compose all creation:
    Earth,
    water,
    fire,
    air,
    ether,

    Mind,
    intelligence,
    false-ego.

    The above 8 elements all exist within an all-encompassing void ---that cannot be seperated from these "Elements" ---these two comprise the topic called "Duality".

    The 8 "Elements" are thrown into flux by [as per vedanta writ] the ever fluxing influence of the "Three Gunas":

    (This is Bhaktajan's comparison):
    "Raja-guna = YING" //+//
    Tama-guna = YANG . . . //+// . . .
    Sattva-guna = Maintenance]

    In the material world there are these 8 elements and the space that it occupies.
    The Three modes-of-nature [the "Three Gunas"] are the underlying mechanics of the combination(s) of these elements . . . all thus, causing TIME to transpire.

    ADD TO THE ABOVE SCHEMATIC:
    Jiva-atma [lit. individual-soul] The Conscious Individual Soul = animated self-centered sensual-gratification seeking creatures whose bodies are composed of the above delineated inanimate 8 elements.

    Brahman = the void/Space
    and/or
    Brahman = the individual 'knot' of an individual soul [1/10,000th the size of the tip of hair & brighter than Ten Suns]

    Param-atma = [lit. supreme-soul aka God omnipresent as the life-force nucleus of each animate soul].

    Bhagavan = The Suprema Persona of Godhead Transcendental.

    The Hindu Trinity [3-Aspects of God self-expansion that comprises the Material (and BTW, the Spiritual Energies too)]:
    1 Brahman
    2 Param-atma
    3 Bhagavan

    The Jiv-atma (and BTW, the Spiritual Energies too) is composed of three qualities ---
    "Sat-chitta-ananda":
    1 Sat = Eternality (non-material 8 elements)
    2 Chitta = Cognisance (aka, consciousness)
    3 Ananda = Bliss

    The Jiv-atma is free to seek out ABSOLUTE HELL and its many permutations
    or
    The Absolute Personality of Godhead as revealed in the Vedas . . . ASAP.

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :
    Want to read my debate with Hindu Athiests (advaita), who could NOT figure-out HOW at the least, ABSOLUTE ZERO is Absolute?

    If you want to see how even Hindu arm-chair scholars cannot ADMIT the SUPREMACY OF GOD AS ABSOLUTE by denying the existence of any possible state of "ABSOLUTE-NESS" . . . to see Vedantists reduce all the Hindu Dieties to a Void-State . . . and/or . . . to see Vedantists claim God cannot be God because God has not introduced Himself to them during their past countless re-births . . . but how they, the 'Yogic Vedantist' can aspire to become a God themselves . . . all the while while quoting the Vedas as their source of Knowledge.
    see:
    VOID Void void - Hindu Dharma Forums
    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::

    It is now several decades before your passing to the great "samsara" cycle of birth-and-death, yet again ---Do you know where your copy of the Bhagvad-gita as it is translated by a bonefide teacher in the succession of the Compiler & Historical biographer of the Vedic age, Vyasadeva who recorded for posterity the pastimes of Krishna's appearence, at the start of this present age of 'Kali', where Krishna's words are directly benedicting the Warrior Prince Arjuna along with all those that have ever partaken of the sublime & profound knowledge that was imparted in the Bhagavad-gita?
     
  3. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan New Member

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    Agnostics are humble atheists.

    Real atheists actively deny God's Persona ---yet praise Human-ism as the pinnicle of a Monarch's personage. All paid for by collecting taxes that are accountable only to the collector's accountants.

    ..............................................................................
    Below is a link to "Hindu" arm-chair scholars who actively ADMIT the SUPREMACY OF GOD is actually each MAN'S eternal Duty & birth-right, if only man would conclude that "All is One" ergo, 'I exist therfore I am a God' ---by denying the existence of Hindu Gods as found in Hindu Scripture & popular culture of India:

    How do you view the Gods? - Hindu Dharma Forums

    God is absolute ---Man is tiny, finite, and temporary and one amongst trillion likewise atomic size SOUL-particle individual vector points with our own POV from which too behold the specticle of existance.

    The Gita is a dialogue that reviewed succinctly five topics that was meant to advise Arjuna the hesitant Warrior while on the battle field on the first day of a civil war ---thus, the high urgent stakes that comprise the 700 verse sutra called the Bhagavad-gita.

    Learn the Bhagavad-gita as it is ASAP ---worry about learning to dicipher Arabic later when the next millenium starts . . .

    a belated appeal,
    Bhaktajan ---like it was 1999!
     
  4. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    so which english translation of the Gita would you recommend, i have one somewhere never got round to reading it though.

    and when all phenomena is gone what is left ?

    I AM ?
     
  5. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan New Member

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    1] Since I am a Hare Krishna Devotee: A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami's translation [unabridged edition] of the Bhagavad-gita entitled, "Bhagavad-gita as-it-is"

    In his edition, each of the gita's 700 verses is presented replete with:
    a) actual sanskrit script/text,
    b) each sanskrit word in each verse is transcribed phonetically,
    c) each sanskrit word is translated "Sanskrit-to-English" [Word-for-word],
    d) An authentic English rendering of the Verse by a bonefide Swami in the linage of gurus dating back to Krishna himself ---hence the appellation: "as-it-is" *
    e) Commentary ---from a real indian Babaji Guru from Vrindavan India that arrived on the world scene at the Height of the American Vietnam War & the apex of the "Flower-Power" and the "Sex-Drugs-and-Rock & Roll" generation.

    The gita discusses 5 topics:
    Ishvara - the nature of Godhead
    Prakriti - the nature of material metaphysics
    Jiva - the nature of the indiviual soul
    Kala - the influence of "Time"
    Karma - the influence of "Work"

    IRONICALLY, I must advise you to concider reading the Gita [in english] in its original source material, namely, as one chapter in the Great Epic of Ancient India, the MAHA-BHARATA, where the Gita is a scene that occurs well into the story of the Mahabharata ('the great Bharata').

    The court intrigue among the royal Dynasty of Old "Bharata" (aka, India) represents a trans-generational epic spanning approximately four or five generations of the Royal Court at the end of the last epoch ['Yuga'] in India (3,000 BC).

    The gita's dialogue occurs on the first day of a civil war that had long finally occuered after decades of brewing animosity between the Royal cousins ---some taking one side, and, the others siding with Arjuna ---moments before the first volley was shot, Arjuna lamented that both armies were comprised of relatives, and so he desisted from starting the battle, just as he rolled his chariot between the readied parties.

    Thus, Arjuna's Cousin Krishna, who had earlier volunteered to be Arjuna's chariot driver, turned to Arjuna and commenced to review for him all the considerations of Duty as per the traditions and injuctions of the Vedic Knowledge ---as the armies stood by waiting the first calvalery charge;

    2] hence to read the Gita is to actually engage in Yoga!

    3] According to the Vedas: all phenomena emanates from Maha-Vishnu.
    'Nirvana' ('without qualities') is the first step of the Yoga-Ladder toward self-realisation.

    a "brahman" realisation:
    I] realisation of 'brahman/nirvana' as omnipresent & behind the rising & falling material elements/energy; and,
    II] as the stuff of which a soul is composed of.

    b "param-atma" realisation = God's localised life-forse presence in each soul.

    c "bhagavan" realisation = God's Absolute Personage, transcendent to the material world.

    4] According to the Vedas the soul is part and parcel of the "Supreme-Soul".
    The Grand surprise is the the "Supreme-Soul" is a Person ['Bhagavan' ('the possessor and source of all opulences')]. According to the Vedas the soul is a person. According to the Vedas the soul is active by nature ---so the buddhist sense of Nirvana as the "Goal of merging the soul into a state of non-being" is a myth borne of a lack of knowledge that the "nature of the soul(s)", of all living entities, is "Persona".

    The life-force in all animate bodies is the precence of a "Soul", and that soul is striving birth-after-birth seeking the supreme soul ---this is the mystery of life.


    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
    Mind you, all schools and classifications of In-the-Know-knowledge is explicity passed down person-to-person [like the kids party game, "telephone"] ---most times it is required by a seeker of knowledge to travels great lengths, pay large fees & pass strict exams ---all inorder to be admitted to a circle of those in-the-know.

    Similarly, I am attempting here to simply relay the contents of scriptures & sutras to pass on the Dharma selflessly.

    your ardent wellwisher, worts and typo-graphical errors all,
    Bhaktajan


    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    [* It should be noted:

    a. In India a proper Hindu man should retire in old age and thus study and prepare for death by accelerating the daily practice of yoga!

    Bhaktivedanta Swami had been a householder and then later, after years of ashram life in Vrindavan India ---he was given the title of Bhakti (devotion) -Vedanta (conclusion of Vedic research) ---an apt title for a scholar of the Gita.

    b. In India a proper Swami is expected to submit for the world his own 'Commentary of the Gita' ---this is a standard pastime among hindu pundits.

    c. Bhaktivedanta Swami's use of the appellation "AS-IT-IS" is a actually a literary gibe & a scholarly Code-Word to indicate how the multitude of available translations of the Gita, especially in India itself, are not true to the text itself, for many a Hindu Philosopher will translate the Gita to support the opinion that it's speaker (and the Author too!) is a mythological allergory, thus, inaccessable except through an arm-chair scholar rather than a devout devotee of the speaker of the Gita, Krishna Himself]
     
  6. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan New Member

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    1] Want to read my debate with Hindu Athiests (advaita), who could NOT figure-out HOW at the least, ABSOLUTE ZERO is Absolute?

    If you want to see how even Hindu arm-chair scholars cannot ADMIT the SUPREMACY OF GOD AS ABSOLUTE by denying the existence of any possible state of "ABSOLUTE-NESS" . . . to see Vedantists reduce all the Hindu Dieties to a Void-State . . . and/or . . . to see Vedantists claim God cannot be God because God has not introduced Himself to them during their past countless re-births . . . but how they, the 'Yogic Vedantist' can aspire to become a God themselves . . . all the while while quoting the Vedas as their source of Knowledge.
    see:
    VOID Void void - Hindu Dharma Forums

    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
    2] Agnostics are humble atheists.

    Real atheists actively deny God's Persona ---yet praise Human-ism as the pinnicle of a Monarch's personage. All paid for by collecting taxes that are accountable only to the collector's accountants.

    .................................................. ............................
    Below is a link to "Hindu" arm-chair scholars who actively ADMIT the SUPREMACY OF GOD is actually each MAN'S eternal Duty & birth-right, if only man would conclude that "All is One" ergo, 'I exist therfore I am a God' ---by denying the existence of Hindu Gods as found in Hindu Scripture & popular culture of India:

    How do you view the Gods? - Hindu Dharma Forums


    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
    3] Here is another truely "Classic Example" of an armchair internet scholar of Hindu-ology ---saying THERE IS NO GOD, and, if there is one: "We are God, but we don't know it". ----These athiest Hindu philosophers a wrongly align themselves with the hyarchy of the "Vedic Gods" like, Shiva ---yet these same athiest Hindu philosophers actively "reduce to zero the Personality of the Vedic Gods to symbols", and, claim there inherit Godhood for themselves ---all of which is simply "active atheism".

    They call "Advaita" [the concept that: "underlying all phenomena ALL IS ONE"] the goal of life ---but this is easily accepted as true by any theist.

    The term "Advaita" is a "conclusion" that one may arrive at while studying the nature of "Brahman's Omnipresence/Omniscients/Innate Potential" ---yet the scripture whence this knowledge is derived (the Vedas) speaks of Godhead too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I am a Hindu Vaishnav (Vishnu Devotee of the 'Gaudiya Matha' branch), commonly known as a "Hare Krishna" (Hare Krishna is the famous mantra heard chanted by our yoga students world wide) thus I am an orthodox practicing Hindu 'student' ---since 1975.

    Albeit, IMO, "All is One" is a True & absolute metaphysical Claim that is indeed, a reality of life ---yet, it does not represent any type of "ascendence of the soul" ---rather IMO, it represents a deep seated un-resolved trauma that seeks a "resignation of the soul to an absolute state of non-being". It is a Hindu Nirvana state that denies God's existence and replaces God with a "Desire for a Zero state of the Soul as the definition of Salvation" ---yet, IMO, this indeed is classically attainable and indeed represents a successful Yogi's efforts in the yogi's quest ---yet it is 'atheistic' because it neglects the absolute purpose(s) of the Vedas teachings of Personal-Etiquette-Training as classically embodied in the Vaishnav Schools' Vedic Texts of "Bhakti-yoga" (Yoga of devotion to a personal God) ---texts such as the Bhagavad-gita & the much large Epic text from which the 700 verse Gita is derived, the "Mahabharata" (The epic of the Dynasty of last Great King of Bharata).

    ...........................................................
    Here is a link to a debate between the above "Impersonalist (Advaita) School of Hindu Yoga Doctrine" //versus// the "Personalist (Vaishnav) School of Hindu Yoga Doctrine"

    Keep in mind that many Advaitist [all-is-one] Thinking Hindus Philosophies "align" themselves with Lord Shiva (one of the main Trinity of Devas of this material world), yet ultimately, these Advaitists reduce God to a symbolic thought/Dream/Concept/opinion/Non-Person ---yet the Advaitist seeks "Godhead Status" in their own mind . . . and preach it to others . . .

    versus
    Note: It is about "Supremacy angle"!!! ---yet the fellow saying it is not the 'Supremacy angle' will ultimately say it is acheivable for the yogi to become a God ---and MOST IRONICALLY, Lord Shiva, who the fellow is saying is Superior to Vishnu ---ultimately aims to reduce all the Vedic Devas to zero and hold his Advaita-Consciousness as the apex of his God-Cosciousness.

    Re: LORd SIVA : A Gaudiya Vaisnava Perspective - Page 7 - Hindu Dharma Forums
     
  7. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan New Member

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    Dear Advaitians!

    It’s a beautiful day for moksha, I pray you escape maya asap.

    Here are some questions that I serve to you for your pleasure:

    • Which came first: ‘Consciousness’ or ‘Un-Consciousness’?

    • Do both “Consciousness and Un-Consciousness” simply exist side-by-side, always?

    • Do we ‘souls’ vacillate between ‘Consciousness’ and/or ‘Un-Consciousness’ always, in samsara?

    • Are such endless vacillations in samsara a ‘Sad*’ thing? [*One of the 4 Emotions: Sad, glad, mad, afraid]

    • Does the repeated expense of time & effort, in samsara, reward us? En-mass? In any real tangible everlasting way, ever?

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Don’t do the “Elephant’s bath”!
    ---to immerse into a lake’s waters;
    and, as the final touch,
    emerge to roll on the muddy banks afresh
    ---that’s the “Elephant’s bath”.


    …………………………………………………………..

    Bhaktajan


    “I told you to feed the boy porridge, not meat”
     
  8. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    There is a HUGE flaw in your argument just in what I have read so far:

    If Brahman is knowable by logic, why are all not aware of it? No, the whole point of spiritual practice is to escape the confines of mind where logic resides. Once logic is transcended, Brahman can be known, not before. Yoga means yoke, join, merge, union... this is the goal. When this is accomplished, there cannot be two, there is only one, this one is Brahman. Every difference, any duality is false, find the Truth.

    When you find truth, you will know how irrelevant it is to ask "is this god?" or "am I god?" This is another differentiation. This is why, always, the wise say the Ultimate cannot be described, as soon as you try you are wrong.
     
  9. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan New Member

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    All talking of "Brahman" is revealed by Krishna directly to Brahma.

    Just I know that, similarly, others know only of talk of Brahman.

    Be Brave and know what Krsna-Dvaipayana Vyasa says.

    Within the '1' is the manifold variety.
    Within the Zero Space exists the '1' is its manifold variety.

    Both the '1' and Zero are inseperable ---thus both exist together ---forming the entire Universe.

    That Universe and its pastimes are Maya ---The Zero Space & the '1' are part and parcel of Maya.

    Maha-Vishnu is Beyond Maya.
    We souls in the material world are in Maya.

    Seek the Absolute Transcendent refuge ---beyond The Zero Space & the '1' Maya.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Maybe Advaitists should recognise that their 'Singular Catch-all negation myoptic' mumbo-jumbos teach them to 'Stop Arguing' and except passivity as a vocation.

    just quote Krishna,
    Bhaktajan
     
  10. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    Would you continue the debate with me if you knew I had experienced moksha? Your debates are so totally irrelevant, the nothing and everything are the same, yet you single in on the nothing and ignore the everything. I can see you are a learned student, but you are not experienced in the truth.

    May you be liberated from your false biases in this life.
     
  11. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan New Member

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    Honestly, I'd think you were a Lunitik.

    Elementary lesson 101:
    'When responding to a question, use the words of the question within your reply.'
     
  12. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan New Member

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    How about Absolute Maxims.

    It's not 'all good'--- only the good is good
    and the bad is someone elses pastime.

    There is reality ---and there is Maya.

    Reality is not about "hiding from Maya", but transcending it.

    Transcendental Knowledge is not defined as Hiding behind Maya's skirt.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    God is His own Person, there far away, with His own eternal interpersonal pastimes with his hosts of entourages!

    ---ergo then, We must ask,

    "Then, what the Hell are We doing here?"

    Answer that question!

    Confess the You Are a hapless sense-gratifying lusty mundane temporal being seeking 24/7 pleasure while in a stupor of self definition on the shores of time.

    Okay?,
    Bhaktajan
     
  13. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    So, despite believing in a tradition that teaches merging with the divine and liberation from duality, you call one that has crossed that threshold insane? In doing so, you make the Indian traditions no better than the current state of Islam or Christianity. You deny the spiritual paths and turn spiritual teachings into something material.

    I would perhaps recommend you research the enlightened masters rather than the teachers which are removing spirituality from the equation. What is spirituality if not the discover of the Spirit or Brahman? The escape from duality is possible.
     
  14. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    How do we transcend something by embracing it further? All bias is maya, it is your own creation and interpretation of maya. We are told to see all impermanence as maya, what then is left? There is only one.

    We are not separate from God, this is maya, our delusion. We are as a cell of God, a bubble in the river of God. The point of religion, the path to re-binding - which is the meaning of religion - is the path of popping our bubble, of acknowledging we are part of the whole not merely a separate cell independent of the One.

    We are the expression of Brahman attempting to comprehend himself.

    I have crossed the river.
     
  15. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan New Member

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    Quote the Gita!
    Quote the Gita!
    Quote the Gita!

    How's that sound to you?
     
  16. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    It sounds like you are asking me to limit my expression to the experience of another rather than speaking of my own.
     
  17. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan New Member

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    Wow, this is probably a verbatim quote of some 'Advaita' poet, right?
    Sounds like the usual suspected Advaitic verses to me.
     
  18. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    It is an expression of personal experience.
     
  19. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan New Member

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    Oh jeez.

    Wadda ya going to do with these people??????????????

    Ya gotz ta Quote Authority!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Learn the Kings English first before sermonising.
     
  20. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    You have read the Gita, what is the purpose of quoting it? We merely direct each other towards statements which must be interpreted. We will certainly interpret them differently.

    Every faith teaches a form of merging with the divine, it is not particular to the Gita. The goal cannot change, only the expression can. I use my own expression because I have my own experience of what is explained. You need the words of another because you have no experience of your own, you are taking a scholarly approach rather than a spiritual approach to the words of another.
     

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