Dis-info about authentic Hinduism

Discussion in 'Hinduism' started by bhaktajan, Nov 23, 2011.

  1. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    0
  2. bob x

    bob x New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Messages:
    2,618
    Likes Received:
    0
    Your first link is broken for whatever reason: here is the truehinduism main page. It is one thing if you disagree with his outlook, which does seem well outside of mainstream, but it is quite another to assume insincerity.
     
  3. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,212
    Likes Received:
    0
    bhaktajan, like bob, i fail so see anything really anti-hindu here. yes, more than a little outside the mainstream (so was Ghandiji). The question about ISKCON is very troubling, but certainly well within the purview of "liberal-radical" Vedanta (i think). Please explain why you come to your conclusion.

    P.S. loved the hint about Supernova!

    Panta Rhei!
    Everything Flows!
     
  4. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    0
    True Hindus are pacifists to the best of their ability [ie: the Gita's Arjuna]

    Iconoclasts are not known among Hindu preachers.

    To denegrate a authentic swami's scholarship examplified via the swami's erudite rendering of the sanskrit Gita's text ---such a CHALLENGE TO VEDIC SCHOLARS was issued forth by Bhaktivedanta Swami to all interested parties ---this challenge was de facto declared in his Appendage to the Title, BHAGAVAD-GITA by his supra-provacative orthodox use of the qualification, "As it is".

    Don't blame me if the principle character of the Gita Proclaims He is God and that {an insignificant detail????} detail is eleborated through-out all Vedic Literatures. ISKCON is dedicated to propagating the answer to the Question:
    "Who is this Krishna person?"
    Well, the answer has been sitting there in the Gita.

    Without this 'open-book-secret' is NOT emphasised --then all is lost.

    So then Bengali story says, regarding not learning the lesson of the Vedas & the espcially the Gita . . . As-it-is, "again become a mouse".

    I agree with Bobx's accessment ---yet, I too may assert, "I sincerely opine that I should be able to have many wives"a and then logically reason, "What man would sincerely deny me this desire?"
     
  5. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    0
    Anyway, I aint against some bogie-yogi getting action in the market place of souls . . . it's a free-enterprise world out there, so I don't begrude marketeers from doing free-trade . . .

    So, the irksome problem for me with this Linked Blogger/Web-site is that an active Hindu sees subterfuge anti-hindu double-talk within & between the lines of the web-postings there.

    Such in-compatable mixing of opposite "tastes" is called "rasa-abhasa" ie: an Ice cream & pickles salad.

    Atop of all that, the psotings are all intellectually crude ---poor presentation and lack of depth of spelt all over the place in those postings.

    IMHO, a wild west of Svengalism.

    He mentions the academic talking point, "ISKCON claims they are not Hindu" ---and then state Iskcon is not Hindu.

    I am Hindu.
    The word hindu is not sanskrit.
    Hindus are from India.
    I am not from India.
    People from outside India can become Devotees of Krishna etc irregardless of the fact that those outsiders are not raised by Hindu parents ---therefore there is no need to be from THE HIGHER CASTES OF HINDU INDIA.

    We are not landed-gentry ---but we can all be noble citisens.

    The Governorship of Godhead's Personality has been sitting attended since time-immemorial through generations and generations ---it's Not time to relegate commoners to ranks below HINDU BRAHMANA CASTES . . . this is what the Liberal Minded 69 year old Bhaktivedanta Swami aspired to when he said We need not be established Hindu to receive the revelation of KRISHNA'S Fame and Historical Pastimes.

    When such knowledge were to be propagated outside of Hindu India ---authentic reliable bonefide "sources" must be had as proof of the Revealed Truths.

    There is no hiding skeletons in the closet inre ISKCON'S attempts to establish traditional old-school "Hindu" orthodoxy ---but then a missionary such as Bhaktivedanta Swami arrived in America in 1965, his mission was completed and continues till today albiet with alot of fallen to the wayside early pioneers of "Hindu-schools of thought" in the west ---especially the Hare Krishna School of Hindu Philosophy.

    Bhaktivedanta Swami was an old man without his personal interest at heart ---his very actions were also meant to examplify what any orthodox Hindu 'Old man' should do during his waning years: take-up the vows of sannyasa and propagate Bhagavata-Dharma [aka, prayascitta].
     
  6. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Krishna has spoken extensively to Arjuna about this not being right at all, yet you uphold Arjuna's perspective? This is true Hinduism to you, taking the side the Avatar has tried to show the flaws of? I do not understand...

    Let us remind ourselves that Krishna has led his side of the war, he was not merely a participant. How do Hindu's justify this and remain pacifist? India has been taken over repeatedly because Hindu's cannot accept what they must do in these situations. It is time to understand Krishna properly, especially in the current world climate of revolution... will India again just sit by and see what happens?

    I do not understand how running from life can be called spiritual.
     
  7. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just See!

    Re-watch the movie "Catch-21".

    Arjuna was the "Defensive party" in the Gita's context ---NOT the agressor party. Arjuna suggested turning the other cheek. . . . but Arjuna had been "turning the other cheek" against repeated assisination attempts since his childhood. The eventual Civil-war that occurs in the 700 verse chapter known as the Bhagavad-Gita [within the epic Mahabharata's 100,000 verses].

    It comes as no shock to anyone that Arjuna's Cousin and charioteer, Shree Krishna advise Arjuna in the Gita ---this event occurs after the START-SIGNAL was blown. It was pretty late in the game IOW, ON THE BATTLEFIELD, to jettison one's resolve and especially all the gained expertise and what to think of the utter bedlam of annoucing to the assembled masses of International Monarchs and their armies that were made to stand aside while the START OF THE BATTLE was suddenly halted to to some conversation taking place by the General on Oneside with his Charioteer.

    There were millions of warriors awaiting the temporary halt caused by Arjuna's sudden . . . wheeling out his Chariot along the no-mans land demarcation line of the opposing parties so he could "take a meeting".

    The world is made of duality, irony, polarities, sardonic happen-chance ---this is what all the Greek Tragedies played with.

    The "pursuit of Goals" is the basis of all Story plots ---and in real life there are few tidy endings.
     
  8. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Arjuna represents the stupidity of the Brahmins at that time, he represents exactly what Krishna has come to correct in the Hindu's. He tells Arjuna to accept all that happens because none of it is really effecting your true being, his whole life is about absolutely letting go to existence - or Brahman if you prefer. His whole life is about celebrating what life offers, even if it seems immoral. This is why he has 1600 women, some probably married, at the same time. This is why he convinces Arjuna to drop his issues with the war, that sometimes war is absolutely necessary as a society must be killed to be resurrected for the better. It is about dropping all hangups and simply letting go to what is, without any stupid baggage.

    Non-violence is simply an obsession with violence in the negative direction, it is worse because it never is exhausted and thus destroys a man from the inside. People praise Ghandi and others like him, for what? He has just turned his violence on himself trying to be the best ascetic possible, and this is praiseworthy? There is something horribly wrong with Hindu society...

    Read the Gita again without prejudice, do not bring your mind or others explanations of it in, simply read what exactly he is showing.
     
  9. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Life is the play of Brahman, all of the characters are Brahman, all there is is That.

    Why will you fight with his script?
     
  10. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, Krishna, God, had 16.000 "wives" ---God has trillion of wives.
    God is known as Hrishikesh "The Master of the Senses" ---all experiences are ultimately His alone.
    I wager that you can NOT concieve such a thing. Krishna had 16.00 wives and he visited and lived with each simultaeously!
    Do you envy God's opulence(s)?
    Do you begrudge Goddesses of Fortunate Extraordinaire from the benediction of "God as their Husbands"?
    I've known endless Nuns that are married to Christ.
    Krishna is not known in scripture for filandering.
    The Rasa-dance occured when Krishna was 8 years old while he lived on a dairy-farm.
    The semi-scandal was that the young girls had done a square dance with the young supra-Precocious Boy Krishna ---that square dance was attended by some married young girls too ---they each and every girl got to dance with one singular young boy, that boy was Krishna.
    Each girl simultaeously had the hand of Krishna --- I wager that you can NOT concieve such a thing.



    Then I'll give you a pence for each Dollar.
    I'll give 100 pennies ---you give me 100 dollars.
    Does that proposition seem like a cheating scheme???

    "Ever Object has a Story" --Henry Ford [IMO, this man was blessed by the 'Mother of Invention']

    "simultaeously 'one' and simultaeously different" = acintya bheda-bheda tattva.


    That is why it is said,"Only a fool would represent himself in a law suit". It's best to seek proper council.
     
  11. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,212
    Likes Received:
    0
    bhaktajan,

    Thanks for the info (again). Reread the sites you began this with in light of what you said (and putting on my thinking cap, not alwys on my head). You have a valid point. I see that the individual is using a shotgun approach which (IMHO) paints all of the vedantic and other "reach outs" to the West as errant.

    Thanks for taking the time!

    Panta Rhei!
    Everything Flows!
     
  12. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    What use is there in trying to conceive of it? It becomes a mental exercise, it simply shows Krishna is dancing with whatever music life plays. Same is true on the battle field, he simply says this is what is happening now, you should not be against it but be total in it instead. You should even enjoy the war - since all are actually Brahman, who can really die in it?
     
  13. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Elmer Gentry"s have been around since just before the oldest profession.

    Reference the false messiah scenes in the Movie, "Life of Brian".
     
  14. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    0
    Brian: I'm not the Messiah! Will you please listen? I am not the Messiah, do you understand? Honestly!
    Girl: Only the true Messiah denies His divinity.
    Brian: What? Well, what sort of chance does that give me? All right! I am the Messiah!
    Followers: He is! He is the Messiah!
    Brian: Now, fuck off!
    [silence]
    Arthur: How shall we fuck off, O Lord?

    Monty Python - I'm Not The Messiah - YouTube
     
  15. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    0
    Being lead by a ring in the nose is the status quo of sense-gratification.

    All famous wrestlers seek the Good Fight.

    The warrior prowess of mankind cannot be extinguished.

    They do enjoy the fight.

    All will die ---the aim is to know what has been imparted by the earlier generations so as to achieve the goal of life's trials ---versus --- dying like a fool unexpectedly in the streets thus providing little more than some overtime pay for the Union-ised professions and/or a chartered accountant at an insurance company's billing department.
     
  16. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    In the action movie, when one of the characters dies in the scene, has the actor been effected at all? When the director yells "cut", the actor simply gets up and goes to lunch... the scene has added to the movie, made it more exciting, more interesting... it is merely a leela though, naught but maya.

    This is what Krishna expresses to Arjuna to show that there is nothing wrong in the war - Arjuna is too much obsessed with this place though, too much caught up in the movie to see what is happening.

    It is not so different to us jumping while watching a scary movie, or crying during a romantic movie.
     
  17. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    0

    Arjuna was one of the greatest skilled warriors ever imaginable.

    He was faced with killing Kinsmen, who were avaricious.
    The circumstances had shaken Arjuna's resolve.

    Bhagavad Gita As It Is, 2: Contents of the Gita Summarized, Text 4.
    Arjuna said: O killer of Madhu [Krsna], how can I counterattack with arrows in battle men like Bhisma and Drona, who are worthy of my worship?


    Bhagavad Gita As It Is, 2: Contents of the Gita Summarized, Text 5.
    It is better to live in this world by begging than to live at the cost of the lives of great souls who are my teachers. Even though they are avaricious, they are nonetheless superiors. If they are killed, our spoils will be tainted with blood.

    Bhagavad Gita As It Is, 2: Contents of the Gita Summarized, Text 6.
    Nor do we know which is better--conquering them or being conquered by them. The sons of Dhrtarastra, whom if we kill we should not care to live, are now standing before us on this battlefield.

    Bhagavad Gita As It Is, 2: Contents of the Gita Summarized, Text 7.
    Now I am confused about my duty and have lost all composure because of weakness. In this condition I am asking You to tell me clearly what is best for me. Now I am Your disciple, and a soul surrendered unto You. Please instruct me.

    Bhagavad Gita As It Is, 2: Contents of the Gita Summarized, Text 8.
    I can find no means to drive away this grief which is drying up my senses. I will not be able to destroy it even if I win an unrivaled kingdom on earth with sovereignty like the demigods in heaven.

    . . .

    Having spoken thus, Arjuna, chastiser of enemies, told Krsna, "Govinda, I shall not fight," and fell silent.

    Bhagavad Gita As It Is, 2: Contents of the Gita Summarized, Text 32.
    O Partha, happy are the ksatriyas to whom such fighting opportunities come unsought, opening for them the doors of the heavenly planets.

    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
    Concern of the Prince Arjuna was ---He was going to kill real people, people that were his kin and friends.

    So similarly we humans are related by 3-degrees of seperation ---yet in Kali-yuga we canabalise eachother while trying to become our own Personal Tony Soprano or Tony Montana, aiming to be lord of all we survey ---but we are "stunads con testa d'meirda gofones que mangia corpos mortos".

    "whenever one murderer is in prisoned; twelve surviving victims pay for his free lawyer and free health benefits for life ---without the benefit of adjustments for inflation"
     
  18. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    You quote summations of Arjuna's words to make your point, yet Arjuna is not the Avatar - I go on telling you Arjuna is the personification of what was wrong with the Hindu's that Krishna has come to change...

    Krishna goes on telling Arjuna that this is just a play of existence, that his clinging to these people is creating his problem. He tells Arjuna to see it is a game, not to take it so seriously because none will actually die on the field - in fact, none of the field actually exist, they are just characters of God, performing a scene of God's liking. The essence of all is the same, and that essence cannot be killed even as you watch their form die.
     
  19. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Smarana" This is what it all boiled down to.

    When a Master Fighter with super-human prowess must act ---he must "enter the zone" and then, live or die.


    In contra-distinction to the old rock song lyrics:
    Krishna stood beside Arjuna, so, the expeditious chance to personally inform Arjuna was at hand, when Arjuna fell silent and sat down and said, "Govinda! I shall not fight"

    ---thus, the summation was to "Alway remember Krishna's favor in all acts great, small, and obliged and especially mortal events ---and thus, thinking of Krishna in all circumstances

    . . . all fear is removed, since remeberence of Krishna, especially at death, assures liberation". Arjuna acted begrudingly along ---ie, especially when he had to shoot down Pita-ma Bhishma.

    Seperation and renunciation and total focus toward one's single-minded pursuit of occupational duties = Life's personal self-rewards.

    Occupational duty = Dharma.
     
  20. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Still you identify more with Arjuna, although you have drawn closer to Krishna when you say 'he must "enter the zone" and then, live or die'. Let me ask, what is the nature or essence of a man? Is that affected one way or another when the body dies?
     

Share This Page