For Christians

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Terrence

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I have a question and a reason for asking the question. But, before I give my reason, I'd like for you to give me an adequate answer to this question:

In Romans 9, who does the Bible say chooses people for Salvation - God or Man?
 
Can we stick to the topic please. I dont want to have this post be long and go off topic, u know?

Thanks!
 
Prober said:
YES! Absolutely!
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Hey, I'm glad God saved you!! So, what is your understanding of Romans 9, does God save on foreseen faith or does He choose from His own sovereign will whom he will save?
 
Terrence said:
Hey, I'm glad God saved you!! So, what is your understanding of Romans 9, does God save on foreseen faith or does He choose from His own sovereign will whom he will save?
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I'm not sure if i'm answering your question, but my understanding is...

We've all been comdemned to death by the law. God chooses to save whom he will. He has already offered grace from the law (the adoption of sons) to those who have faith in Jesus.
 
And, I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly either, so please excuse me if I am wrong. But, are you saying that your understanding of salvation isnt based on God electing men on foreseen faith but by His own choice? I am asking because this question concerning election is almost never understood in context of Romans 9 but by those who assume because we have free will, we can choose Christ apart from His choosing of us first.
 
Terrence said:
And, I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly either, so please excuse me if I am wrong. But, are you saying that your understanding of salvation isnt based on God electing men on foreseen faith but by His own choice? I am asking because this question concerning election is almost never understood in context of Romans 9 but by those who assume because we have free will, we can choose Christ apart from His choosing of us first.
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I believe God "elected" men based upon faith before Christ's crucifixion, but when the sacrifice was made (and accepted) then men were "elected" by accepting the sacrifice, that is, by having the faith to believe in Jesus. Christ has chosen all of us and offered a free gift. It is our "free will" decision to accept the gift.

Am I saying what you're saying?
 
Prober said:
I believe God "elected" men based upon faith before Christ's crucifixion, but when the sacrifice was made (and accepted) then men were "elected" by accepting the sacrifice, that is, by having the faith to believe in Jesus. Christ has chosen all of us and offered a free gift. It is our "free will" decision to accept the gift.

Am I saying what you're saying?
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OK, thanks for explaining it more clearly! That is not what I am saying, but that is what I thought you might say. Now that I know what you are saying, here's my 2nd question. If God elects on foreseen faith in Christ, how then could Romans 9 say "it is not up to whoever wills or runs, but on God who shows mercy?" Thats why my first question was "who chooses people for salvation - God or man?"
 
Prober said:
I believe God "elected" men based upon faith before Christ's crucifixion, but when the sacrifice was made (and accepted) then men were "elected" by accepting the sacrifice, that is, by having the faith to believe in Jesus. Christ has chosen all of us and offered a free gift. It is our "free will" decision to accept the gift.

Am I saying what you're saying?
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No, he wants you to say we have no choice in the matter. We are chosen and that is that...about right Terrence?
 
Hey, this is for Christians. Just kiddin. Im not going to judge your salvation Q, I cannot!! And no, we have choice in the matter: Choose Christ and live and deny Christ and die.
 
Terrence said:
OK, thanks for explaining it more clearly! That is not what I am saying, but that is what I thought you might say. Now that I know what you are saying, here's my 2nd question. If God elects on foreseen faith in Christ, how then could Romans 9 say "it is not up to whoever wills or runs, but on God who shows mercy?" Thats why my first question was "who chooses people for salvation - God or man?"
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God chooses the criteria, man chooses whether to be in the set containing the criteria.

I'm not sure I understand the aim of the question.
 
Terrence said:
Hey, this is for Christians. Just kiddin. Im not going to judge your salvation Q, I cannot!! And no, we have choice in the matter: Choose Christ and live and deny Christ and die.
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Made my choice a long long time ago Terrence, possibly before you were stitched together in your mother's womb. Doesn't mean I gave up my will...only my heart. (gee, sounds alot like our Paul, don't you think?)
 
Prober said:
God chooses the criteria, man chooses whether to be in the set containing the criteria.

I'm not sure I understand the aim of the question.
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The aim of the questions is produce within you, my bros and sis in the Lord, a deeper appriciation for God's amazing love and grace. I fear that I am not doing a good job and have decided to take this from another route, namely from the first step in understanding the doctrine of grace, total depravity. Maybe this question may help? What is your understanding of being dead in sins? Do you suppose a dead man in and of himself could or would choose to believe in Christ?
 
lol terrence even Im not brave enough to take this topic on... How do you explain the total awesomeness of God.. His Omni everything... You cant delve into something like this without getting unbelievers worked up... just leave it that God knew who would love Him before He created the world... People who dont understand will put limits on Him. The awesome mysteries of God... I could dwell on every day of my life and never comprehend.
 
Faithfulservant said:
lol terrence even Im not brave enough to take this topic on... How do you explain the total awesomeness of God.. His Omni everything... You cant delve into something like this without getting unbelievers worked up... just leave it that God knew who would love Him before He created the world... People who dont understand will put limits on Him. The awesome mysteries of God... I could dwell on every day of my life and never comprehend.
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Actually, you are. But you're also smarter than the both of us.
 
Faithfulservant said:
lol terrence even Im not brave enough to take this topic on... How do you explain the total awesomeness of God.. His Omni everything... You cant delve into something like this without getting unbelievers worked up... just leave it that God knew who would love Him before He created the world... People who dont understand will put limits on Him. The awesome mysteries of God... I could dwell on every day of my life and never comprehend.
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You a right! I think I'm gonna let this topic go...maybe, I'll try again sometime later? :)
 
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