The Origins of Orthodoxy

Thomas

So it goes ...
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Interesting 90 documentary last night on the "Lost Gospels" – asking the question why, if there were some 20 gospels circulating among the 80-odd writings passing among the churches, did the orthodox Canon result in only 4 gospels and 27 books in total?

What emerges is the philosophical reflection upon the meaning Revelation.

Marcion, for example, perhaps the greatest 'threat' to orthodoxy, insisted that the God of the Old Testament was not the God of whom Jesus spoke, and that there were two Gods, one vengeful, one forgiving, and he cited his chosen texts, line by line, to make his point. Marcion accepted only 1 gospel (Luke) and the Pauline letters as 'orthodox', but only after he had edited any pro-Jewish element from them. If he had been accepted, there would be no Old Testament...

The Ebionites had their gospel, in which Jesus was just a man, a prophet, upon whom the Spirit descended, and who was abandoned to the Cross in death when the Spirit withdrew ...

Arius was another, who insisted 'there was a time when Christ was not' ...

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All the early disputes are essentially Christological.

One of the primary motives towards Orthodoxy were the persecutions. If people were expected to die for their belief, they wanted a clear and unambiguous idea of what it was they were actually called to believe, what they were dying for. The Ebionites, for example, could offer no promise of resurrection, nor salvation. The 'all-inclusiveness' of today's outlook would be frankly unacceptable. It is unlikely to find anyone prepared to face the lions, or be a candle in one of Nero's entertainments, if Jesus might be this, might be that, whatever you want, really ...

... so Orthodoxy was determined by the essential message – was it a belief in the One True God, maker of Heaven and Earth? Was it one of justice and mercy? Of faith and forgiveness? One of salvation for all, in Christ? 'for whom, by whom and in whom all things are made' If yes, it is Canonical, if no (like the gnostic texts which are inarguably elitist) then that will not suffice.

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The final comments were, perhaps, the most telling.

If Christianity had been more inclusive, more allowing, more accepting – (all metaphysical and philosophical contradiction aside) – then Christianity would possibly be a more acceptable religion, perceived today as less dogmatic and less authoritarian.

However, had it done so, the author concludes, all the evidence suggests it would not have survived much more than three centuries. It would not have been Constantine's choice, for example, an astute political move to bind together a crumbling empire. Without an alternative (Mithraism was too limited) Rome would have crumbled sooner than it eventually did, and Christianity would have passed with it.

The documents we have today survive because they have been copied down through the ages. This process would not have happened, the texts of the Christians would have been lost, or secreted perhaps, like the Qmran documents, in an unknown cave.

Thomas
 
Thomas,

Maybe you can enlighten us on how the "canonical texts" were established and preserved, and maybe contrast with the other ex-canonical writings. Why some were accepted, why some weren't. What criteria was used, and so forth.

Seems in this day and age, people are looking for something new. As if some secret revelation will solve the world's ills. I do not understand why there is a need for new scriptures if people don't even believe the scripture that we have. I see this even in Pentacostal/Chsarasmatic circles where folks are seeking a "new word" form the Lord, when they haven't even read the whole bible. Why don't people just read what's there? Or are there ears itching for something else?
 
The Canonical Texts were established by the concensus of the Church Fathers – some, like the Shepherd of Hermas, were argued to be included; some, like the Book of Revelations, were argued to be excluded (due to the obscurity and complexity of its symbolism – it did not speak with the immediate clarity of the Gospels).

Eventually a concensus was reached by, I think, some time in the third/fourth century. The Canon was not formally ratified until the 16th (post Reformation).

The Old Testament Canon - the Septuagint - was the collected texts held by the Jews in Alexandria. Some of them were later disputed by the Jewish Council of Jamnia in the First Century, when only those texts in Hebrew were accepted (the 'apocryphal texts' were in Greek – although Hebrew versions were later discovered among the Qmran documents).

The texts thus 'refused' by the Councils of the Orthodox fell into disuse, or were actively destroyed. Either way, the scribes and copyists would only have worked on 'orthodox' texts, so the others would have crumbled away in time, literally.

Again, the rule for acceptance was both specific content and general message.

Those texts which conflicted and/or contradicted the received teaching of the Apostles – at the philosophical/metaphysical/theological level – were thus refuted accordingly. You can see this in the letters of Paul, Timothy and Peter. Some were blindingly obvious – it was unlikely that a Jewish-based Religion would ever accept the idea of the Demiurge, as proposed by Marcion or the gnostics, for example.

Thomas
 
While we discuss the J, E, P and D writers and which portions of the books they wrote/edited/rewrote. I had an interesting discussion with some Jews regarding the 'canonization' of their texts.

They discussed the existense of Jerusalem Bible and a Bethelem Bible and the differences between the two (one JHVH/YHWH the other Elohist origins) and then discussions/arguments regarding combining the books. And how we ended up with the two versions of creation and Noah to appease both parties. (I'm not signing on unless our stories are included)

If you've ever watched a bill get through congress, with all the pork (lol, no bad pun intended), concessions, under the table agreements, and ammendments that get added to get someone to sign on and get their vote so to get a majority..

The more I learn, that is how the editing of our sacred texts became orthodox. It is all quite interesting...but as you indicated Thomas, it benifits my belief by exposure and understanding of the process.
 
While we discuss the J, E, P and D writers and which portions of the books they wrote/edited/rewrote. I had an interesting discussion with some Jews regarding the 'canonization' of their texts.

They discussed the existense of Jerusalem Bible and a Bethelem Bible and the differences between the two (one JHVH/YHWH the other Elohist origins) and then discussions/arguments regarding combining the books. And how we ended up with the two versions of creation and Noah to appease both parties. (I'm not signing on unless our stories are included)

If you've ever watched a bill get through congress, with all the pork (lol, no bad pun intended), concessions, under the table agreements, and ammendments that get added to get someone to sign on and get their vote so to get a majority..

The more I learn, that is how the editing of our sacred texts became orthodox. It is all quite interesting...but as you indicated Thomas, it benifits my belief by exposure and understanding of the process.

wil,

You don't happen to have a link or reference to the different versions of creation and Noah, do you?

Or else, could you briefly describe the basic differences in the two stories?
 
Namaste Dondi,

I think we've discussed it before elsewhere.

Genesis 1 v. Genesis 2 make yourself up a chart and write down in each side by side each day what was created upto and including man/woman

Noah is the 2 of each v. 7 of each debate, each story came from their seperate stories yet often we try to justify why both are right (not to say they aren't!! it is just the two step I think is not required)
 
Namaste Dondi,

I think we've discussed it before elsewhere.

Genesis 1 v. Genesis 2 make yourself up a chart and write down in each side by side each day what was created upto and including man/woman

Noah is the 2 of each v. 7 of each debate, each story came from their seperate stories yet often we try to justify why both are right (not to say they aren't!! it is just the two step I think is not required)

I think Genesis 2:4 and following is parenthical to the creation of Man. It's just a more detailed description of how God created Man.

I'm still unclear of the Noah connection. Are you talking about v.7 of Genesis 2? Noah doesn't come into the picture until Genesis 6. :confused:
 
Sorry no, according to the Jews I was discussing this with...the noah story that includes G-d telling him to gather 2 of each was from one book, the subsequent story referencing 7 pairs of each was from the other book. Each bible at the time only held ONE story of creation and ONE story of Noah our current bibles contain both to appease both factions.
 
Ah, I see it now with Noah's 2 pair vs 7 pair. So neither Jewish scriptures have both tales, huh? Interesting. I must pose this to BB.
 
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