17th's corner...

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

It is not of Allah's teachings... It is not of the Qur'an... Therefore... It is not of Islam.

Sah

You are aware I hope that hadiths are not all considered authentic? It depends which scholar you read as to what they consier authentic or weak. This goes by a number of things including the chain or narration and other hadiths from the same narrator (basically if they have told a whopper in one then the others are suspect). So be careful and check if they seem to go against the Quran.

wasalaam

[17th Angel]

lol.... Salaam!

Yes I understand this now, and to that extent I will take to a certain degree the hadiths with a pinch of salt... If something within the hadiths doesn't add up to the same answer as the Qur'an gives I will be weary of such a remark..

maca salāma

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

It is not of Allah's teachings... It is not of the Qur'an... Therefore... It is not of Islam.

Its not!! then behead the infidel who ever suggested it!! OOOps...wait that was me...erm let me get my teddy bear first....

[17th Angel]

We can do beheading if you wish, I think teaching/learning the real ways is more effective though.....

[farhan]

Waalikum ussalam.

Wow... lol. That is indeed one big experince I can imagine.... You get candy after that too? (Or am I just being greedy?)

You can keep the animal (meat) for yourself. But usually people give it to Saudi govt, they donate it to some charity. Saudis give a container of zam-zam water (the water that came out from beneath the feet of Ishmael). You can also buy Hajj souvenirs subsidized by Saudi govt. People back home think since it has come from Makkah, its something sacred. They forget to turn it upside down & see the tiny “made in china” written on it.

Shaving of the head.... That is just as a reminder and nothing else behind it?

I guess its ancient sacrifice ritual...asymbolic gesture. Your hair getting cut, animal’s throat getting cut, at the same time. Or may be there is some metaphysical link after all.

OH! And can you only go once? Or can you continue to come this?

From Islamic jurisprudence, you can do it as many times as you want. I’ve heard that Saudis do put some limit though; I guess they are running short of space. It’s not easy accommodating 2.5 million people.

Also what animal is sacraficed? And is it done... You know in a humane way?

There is a list of animals that can be sacrificed, but usually its camels, cows & sheep. It’s done in Islamic way. To make it halal, we need to drain out all the blood, which means cutting all four neck vessels. Some humanists say it’s inhumane. But blood in the flesh is a big source of bacteria, toxins & uric acid. More importantly it’s indigestible by humans. Here is a link about animal rights in Islam, with a section on Halal sacrifice

Animal Rights: An Islamic Perspective - Reading Islam.com

(BTW it also has audio lectures by Dr.Jamal Badawi)

[17th Angel]

Jazak Allah khair!

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Sah

You are aware I hope that hadiths are not all considered authentic? It depends which scholar you read as to what they consier authentic or weak. This goes by a number of things including the chain or narration and other hadiths from the same narrator (basically if they have told a whopper in one then the others are suspect). So be careful and check if they seem to go against the Quran.

wasalaam

The hadiths, I guess, are very much like sacred tradition in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. It was not enough to have a written tradition. What was needed was a frame of reference (sacred tradition) to explain the written tradition to the local culture, and to preserve the first-century experience. I personally wouldn't agree that the first-century experience of Christianity was ever actually preserved, but anyway . . .

As for the hadiths, if they came from the 7th century, would you not have doubts about whether they can speak for you today? Okay, I suppose maybe it preserves the 7th century Islamic experience. It saves Muslims having to build a time machine. Muslims can then use their minds to decide what to do with themselves in today's culture(s).

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Saltmeister

As for the hadiths, if they came from the 7th century, would you not have doubts about whether they can speak for you today? Okay, I suppose maybe it preserves the 7th century Islamic experience. It saves Muslims having to build a time machine. Muslims can then use their minds to decide what to do with themselves in today's culture(s).

For me it very much comes down to what makes sense. For example if there was a hadith that said men should shave with a dagger rather than a broadsword, that does not mean men should always shave with a dagger rather than a razor. It would simply be telling us a smaller object is preferable and is less likely to cut your head off.

I don't believe the Quran calls for us to live frozen in time and the Prophet did not expect us to do so. Everything in the authentic hadiths was recorded to try to guide us, give us examples of how Muslims lived at the time of the Prophet and after his death. They are guidelines that we can draw upon, rather than just make it up as we go along.

Of course there are some that believe that if a hadith says put your left sock on before your right, that it is a must and doing so makes them more pious. I shall reserve comment on my views.