5-yr olds caged

[flowperson]

Hi All...Sometimes people wake up and do the right thing ! Yeaaaa !

flow....

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/27/wa...3PBXKvpHqZ5Nhg

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

I find it interesting you can go from in a sense "no mercy" to realising that perhaps these people need help.... And punishment isn't they key.... Education and help is... That's cool

I dont think I did take a no mercy stance 17th. I said at the beginning of the thread I could forgive the parents more easily than those that knew what was happening and did nothing to stop it. My first priority would be the children, then those that felt this action was somehow ok but my anger would be directed more toward the silent witnesses. By not taking action, usually because feel it is not their place to, they are actually supporting it.

Originally Posted by flowperson

Hi All...Sometimes people wake up and do the right thing ! Yeaaaa !

flow....

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/27/wa...3PBXKvpHqZ5Nhg

And sanity returns.

[bob x]

"my anger would be directed more toward the silent witnesses. By not taking action, usually because feel it is not their place to, they are actually supporting it"
Agreed, but I find it a little ironic. This is how many of us feel about the Muslim world in general, as you know.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by bob x

Agreed, but I find it a little ironic. This is how many of us feel about the Muslim world in general, as you know.

Here is a challenge for you Bob. Before you mention the word Muslim again, try to think of something good a Muslim has done. With your attitude that should keep you quiet for a while.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

I dont think I did take a no mercy stance 17th.

my anger would be directed more toward the silent witnesses.

Deja vu? lol Sure we've been down this road before...

[bob x]

Before you mention the word Muslim again, try to think of something good a Muslim has done. With your attitude that should keep you quiet for a while.

I had a shy and studious Muslim girl in class last term (head-scarf, no veil). It was a multi-hour evening class, so I gave them a break mid-way. She wanted to do her prayers then and asked if I knew a quiet place, so I unlocked the computer lab, and pointed out the compass directions. It became a daily routine, and one day when she left her mat behind, I made sure to pick it up before it vanished and gave it to her the next day, got profuse thanks. When we were discussing correlation and lines of "best fit" I mentioned that I wished that I had multiple colors of chalk so I could distinguish the various types of lines and points I was talking about. At the end of the term, she gave me a box of chalk, in all different colors. That was nice (no, she didn't need to "bribe" me, her A was quite solid!)

[wil]

Originally Posted by bob x

I had a shy and studious Muslim girl in class last term (head-scarf, no veil). It was a multi-hour evening class, so I gave them a break mid-way. She wanted to do her prayers then and asked if I knew a quiet place, so I unlocked the computer lab, and pointed out the compass directions. It became a daily routine, and one day when she left her mat behind, I made sure to pick it up before it vanished and gave it to her the next day, got profuse thanks. When we were discussing correlation and lines of "best fit" I mentioned that I wished that I had multiple colors of chalk so I could distinguish the various types of lines and points I was talking about. At the end of the term, she gave me a box of chalk, in all different colors. That was nice (no, she didn't need to "bribe" me, her A was quite solid!)

Namaste Bob,

nice bit. I teach a Sunday school class, 12-18 year olds. Every now and then one of our congregation brings in her grandchildren when they are visiting. At one time she was Muslim and one of her sons and his family still are. I so enjoy having them in my class, their knowledge of the stories and the prophets is always valuable, as is the interaction and discussion with the other students about the similarities and differences in their beliefs and practices.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by bob x

I had a shy and studious Muslim girl in class last term (head-scarf, no veil). It was a multi-hour evening class, so I gave them a break mid-way. She wanted to do her prayers then and asked if I knew a quiet place, so I unlocked the computer lab, and pointed out the compass directions. It became a daily routine, and one day when she left her mat behind, I made sure to pick it up before it vanished and gave it to her the next day, got profuse thanks. When we were discussing correlation and lines of "best fit" I mentioned that I wished that I had multiple colors of chalk so I could distinguish the various types of lines and points I was talking about. At the end of the term, she gave me a box of chalk, in all different colors. That was nice (no, she didn't need to "bribe" me, her A was quite solid!)

YAY Bob, I am touched (and I don't mean mentally). Thank you for sharing this and for treating a sister with respect. You can have one of my brownies at the next party.

May I ask you, if she wore a veil would you have acted the same way toward her? Could you accept her as the same studious Muslim? Just curious, not being rude.

Salaam

[bob x]

I would hope that I am always professional with my students, and would treat any one of them with respect, and grade them according to their work without regard to any irrelevant opinions of mine. I would probably be less apt to speak to a veiled student, but then, a veiled student would probably be less apt to speak to me: this is rather hypothetical, anyway, since the veiled women just don't seem to go to school (I don't mean that as a statement of stereotype, but as an observation of how it is in Detroit: you do see veiled women on the streets from time to time, I just don't see them at the colleges). Would I have been less accommodating about finding a good quiet room for her prayer if she had been veiled? That wouldn't make a difference: within limits of course, I always try to be accommodating to students; there was supposed to be a test on Yom Kippur, for example, but when I realized what the date was, I changed it.

[Muslimwoman]

I find it very surprising that you don't get many veiled women at your college. If you flick through a lot of the YouTube videos of discussions by Muslim women you will find a majority are filmed on US college/university grounds and the girls are obviously students there (as they don't wear wedding rings). Perhaps it is just in your area, as we know Muslims are not all the same the world over so maybe in Detroit they lean more toward the 'stay at home' mentality?

I am so pleased you can put your personal views to one side at work, it must be difficult as your views are so strong. I hope one year you get a good studious veiled girl in your classes, this may challenge your perceptions.

[bob x]

I'm sure it differs from place to place. Around here, the veil appears to be a symbol of extreme rejection of modernity in every sense of the word, including higher education.

[Muslimwoman]

Maybe I should send flyers showing veiled girls playing with their ipods, getting good degrees at Uni and winning awards for business start ups?!

Of course some choose to be stay at homes wives but many western women do this also. Others are very high achievers but choose to dress for their faith.

It's a funny old world.

Here is a good one:

Saudi Woman Wins UN Award for Work With NGOs

[Tao_Equus]

Still does not balance the attrocities carried out in the name of Islam:
Pickpocket's hand amputated in Mecca

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by bob x

I would hope that I am always professional with my students, and would treat any one of them with respect, and grade them according to their work without regard to any irrelevant opinions of mine. I would probably be less apt to speak to a veiled student, but then, a veiled student would probably be less apt to speak to me: this is rather hypothetical, anyway, since the veiled women just don't seem to go to school (I don't mean that as a statement of stereotype, but as an observation of how it is in Detroit: you do see veiled women on the streets from time to time, I just don't see them at the colleges). Would I have been less accommodating about finding a good quiet room for her prayer if she had been veiled? That wouldn't make a difference: within limits of course, I always try to be accommodating to students; there was supposed to be a test on Yom Kippur, for example, but when I realized what the date was, I changed it.

No no no this is what bugs the **** out of me.... A muslim can go in wearing ninja full battle wear.... And that is "OK" When I went to school, If I wished to -express- myself with the way I dress or my styles... I would be frowned upon, maybe even told off and not taken seriously at all by teachers because I looked like "trouble ahead" yet a muslim woman comes along and oh what an angel for wearing the clothing of her faith, how brave..... please.....

[wil]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Still does not balance the attrocities carried out in the name of Islam:
Pickpocket's hand amputated in Mecca

Here is my issue with these issues. I've got so many conflicting thoughts. First they are an ancient civilization by all accounts and their methodology over the years has kept them moving forward. We've got to appreciate their holding the light while Europe fell into the dark ages, they kept the math and science and art alive and well and kept a religion that suited them and religious laws that kept order.

So a hundred years ago we had executions, firing squads, beheadings, hangings all common in our civilizations. Our civilizations and gov'ts then began evolving, the US in relation to prisons, rehabilitation, drug laws, and capital punishment in general is still has a lot of catching up to do to get to where Europe is today.

Their civilization was/is fairly stagnant, the same, what worked for them continued to work for them, as a matter of fact in the 30's and 40's as we went over there to exploit their resources we glorified much of what we saw in our films, art and stories. But now that they discovered they have some rights to the massive amount of oil/resources that their countries contain, and they've decided to retain that right.

So while we are accelerating our pace of human rights, decrying the child labor laws we only enacted in reality a very short time ago, providing more for our people and freedoms, again in the scheme of things all of this is recent changes in our society, hell we even think we are eliminating our race issues, but what I am getting at is we now like to look sanctimoniously over our spectacles from our easy chairs while watching our HD flatscreens drinking imported alcohol how barbaric these other guys are across the world.

There by the grace of G!d go I, I say. And I think it is our turn to hold the light for them for a hundred years or so and see if they can grow and evolve as well instead of decrying their every move and expecting them to complete in 50 years what it took us 400.

just my thoughts.