A Corollary of Christian God - Page 3

mee · 11-07-2006, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

I see what cavalier is saying 100% and Mee... You're a JW right so you believe that once judgement day has come we all get raised and get that second chance to live on a paradise earth and everything will be purrr fect? Right? Right, so, aren't we back to where we were? Why won't people choose to do what Adam and Eve did? And "disobey" When these perfect sheep have a child.... What is to say that child wants anything to do with god? What if he resists all the bible studies you force down the throat of this child? What of your paradise then?

the bible tells me that those who are resurrected(onto the earth) will be judged on how they live their lives from that time on . and if they dont want to do it Gods way that is their choice. and the bible tells me that if they dont want to do it Gods way they will have the second death . there is no prospect of a further resurrection if they want to go to the second death. there are many asleep in death now who are in Jehovahs memory and these will have the chance to do it right when they are resurrected . but soon when the day of Jehovah happens(Armageddon) the only ones left on the earth after that day will be those who WANT to do it Gods way.Jehovah and Jesus christ can read hearts that is why only they can judge if we are worthy to survive the great day of Jehovah. but now they are telling us the way to go even in our imperfect state .as long as we are trying our best to do it Gods way ,that is the way to go. you mention the word resist, and as you know resisting and opposing God is only serving the purpose of the great opposer and resister( the original serpent satan the devil) which in turn leads to death not everlasting life. when those people are resurrected from the memorial tombs , the resister satan the devil will be out of the way for a thousand years, just think how Adam and eve could have progressed with out the influence of satan the devil around. plus the issue of universal sovreignty will never arise again .
Never again will a challenge to Jehovah’s sovereignty need to be tested over an extended period of time in order to be proved wrong.

17th Angel · 11-07-2006, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

the bible tells me that those who are resurrected(onto the earth) will be judged on how they live their lives from that time on . and if they dont want to do it Gods way that is their choice. and the bible tells me that if they dont want to do it Gods way they will have the second death . there is no prospect of a further resurrection if they want to go to the second death. there are many asleep in death now who are in Jehovahs memory and these will have the chance to do it right when they are resurrected . but soon when the day of Jehovah happens(Armageddon) the only ones left on the earth after that day will be those who WANT to do it Gods way.Jehovah and Jesus christ can read hearts that is why only they can judge if we are worthy to survive the great day of Jehovah. but now they are telling us the way to go even in our imperfect state .as long as we are trying our best to do it Gods way ,that is the way to go. you mention the word resist, and as you know resisting and opposing God is only serving the purpose of the great opposer and resister( the original serpent satan the devil) which in turn leads to death not everlasting life. when those people are resurrected from the memorial tombs , the resister satan the devil will be out of the way for a thousand years, just think how Adam and eve could have progressed with out the influence of satan the devil around. plus the issue of universal sovreignty will never arise again .
Never again will a challenge to Jehovah’s sovereignty need to be tested over an extended period of time in order to be proved wrong.

It's not about prooving jah wrong, it's about how humans are and how they act.... It's about them pleasing themselves not prooving some deity wrong. I can't see how you can be so sure that we come back and that no one will ever "sin" again.... You say those who want to worship him... Did the children that haven't even been born yet choose to worship him?

On another note.. Only those who wish to serve him? When I used to go to the kingdom hall... The children FORCED to sit there and listen to some "elder" up on his stage going on and on... Then being egg'd on by their parents to answer questions.. I even saw one little boy who was getting upset he wanted to go out and play... Fair enough. Oh no wait his idotic father took him to the toilet and smacked him then dragged him back in to have to listen to the beauty of choosing to obey jah out of free will.. Beautiful....

Dondi · 11-07-2006, 01:13 PM

In the first place, there will be no procreation in the Kingdom of God. Jesus was presented this very dilemma by the Sadducees (who didn't believe in the resurrection, that's why they are sad, you see?). They asked that if a man dies, and his brother marries his widow, according to tradition, and then he dies, and another brother marries her, and so on, until all the brothers die, whose wife will she be in the resurrection? Jesus replied that it would be neither, for there will be no marriage in heaven, but we will be like the angels. So hence, there will be no children born in the Kingdom.

As far as the choice to sin in the Kingdom, if our choice is to go with God, then we are choosing His Holy Spirit to be infused in our spirit. When the resurrection occurs, that Holy Spirit will keep us from sin, for God cannot sin. Our choice in choosing God's Spirit now is the choice that will accomplish this later. Going bak to Adam, if he ate of the Tree of Life, before he ate of the Forbidden Tree, the choice would have resulted the same.

17th Angel · 11-07-2006, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

In the first place, there will be no procreation in the Kingdom of God. Jesus was presented this very dilemma by the Sadducees (who didn't believe in the resurrection, that's why they are sad, you see?). They asked that if a man dies, and his brother marries his widow, according to tradition, and then he dies, and another brother marries her, and so on, until all the brothers die, whose wife will she be in the resurrection? Jesus replied that it would be neither, for there will be no marriage in heaven, but we will be like the angels. So hence, there will be no children born in the Kingdom.

As far as the choice to sin in the Kingdom, if our choice is to go with God, then we are choosing His Holy Spirit to be infused in our spirit. When the resurrection occurs, that Holy Spirit will keep us from sin, for God cannot sin. Our choice in choosing God's Spirit now is the choice that will accomplish this later. Going bak to Adam, if he ate of the Tree of Life, before he ate of the Forbidden Tree, the choice would have resulted the same.

So no sex?

And why do people want this again?

lol... Seriously though. If you do not have marriage... And er sex without marriage is a "no no" the how the hell are you meant to "go forth sheep fill and subdue the earth." That would make jah's will irrelivent and void.... And all this suffering pain and war is apparently because jah is trying to proove a point by using satan as an example... Then his will was to carry on.

Francis king · 11-07-2006, 01:31 PM

God is miserable, jealous, mean, and changable in that Nature.

Man is Holy, Perfect, and Good.
Man has a Perfect Relationship with God.
Man can live forever.

But some say that Man disobeyed God and man fell.
All man wanted was to be like God, but God didnt like it, not being the boss. So he threw man down.
Man's relationship with God was torn.
Man's need became Sin and caused Spiritual Death.
This sin created Physical Death.
This sin caused a change in Nature.
God is sinful, imperfect, and always changing.

Because man is Holy, Perfect, Good, then it bears to reason that He is also Just.

If man is Just, then whatever He judges is Just.
Sin, because it is need, must be dealt with.
If He judges need, then need must be dealt with Justly.
Sin must therefore be recognised for what it is.

Since Man is both holy and Sinful, then one of two things must happen:

Either the sin in Man must be destroyed.
Or Man must be uplifted.

God is Love.
But God hates Man.

So God's preference should be to destroy Sin and not Man.
If man can make a way to accomplish this, He will.
Somehow, Sin must be paid for.

So one man did. Jesus.
Therefore, man came in the form of a god.
Jesus as the God-Man lived a Life filled with the Spirit of God.
Because He lived a life, He would die a Death.
In His Death, He took the Sin from God.
He was made God for Man.

Because He was filled with the Spirit, need could not hold him in Death.
So He rose from the Grave, for Sin and Death could not hold Him down.
He rose physically to God, and poked God in the eye and said- don't be so hard on them, it's not as easy as it looks.

Because of Christ, Man's need can be met.
Because of Christ, Man is a blessed Creation.
Because of Christ, Man is raised to New Life.
Because of Christ, Man will be raised towards spirit.
Because of Christ, Man can now have a perfect relationship with God.
Becuase of Christ, Man can live forever.
In Christ, all Nature is restored.

Dondi · 11-07-2006, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

So no sex?

And why do people want this again?

lol... Seriously though. If you do not have marriage... And er sex without marriage is a "no no" the how the hell are you meant to "go forth sheep fill and subdue the earth." That would make jah's will irrelivent and void.... And all this suffering pain and war is apparently because jah is trying to proove a point by using satan as an example... Then his will was to carry on.

I never said that there was no sex in heaven. I believe that in the resurrection we will have incorruptable "spiritual bodies" much like the one Jesus had when He appeared to His Disciples after He rose from the dead. These bodies will function much like ours, only it will never suffer corruption of experience pain. Furthermore, I believe that what ever physical sensations we experience now will be magnified greatly beyond our ability to comprehend with the limitations of the bodies we have now, including sexual sensations. I'm not sure how it will work, but it is my belief that we will experience something that will exceed any sexual pleasure we might receive down here.

Not only is this supported biblically, but there have been people who have experienced near-death experiences that claim that they have seen colors and heard music unlike anything they've seen in the natural. So I'm hopeful that these phenemonom will extend to other senses and is but a taste of even greater sensory pleasures to come.

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - I Corinthians 2:9

17th Angel · 11-07-2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

I never said that there was no sex in heaven. I believe that in the resurrection we will have incorruptable "spiritual bodies" much like the one Jesus had when He appeared to His Disciples after He rose from the dead. These bodies will function much like ours, only it will never suffer corruption of experience pain. Furthermore, I believe that what ever physical sensations we experience now will be magnified greatly beyond our ability to comprehend with the limitations of the bodies we have now, including sexual sensations. I'm not sure how it will work, but it is my believe that we will experience something that will exceed any sexual pleasure we may receive down here.

But... We are not married? So loose lifestyles are acceptable? So the righteous can go bang a prostitute?

Dondi · 11-07-2006, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

But... We are not married? So loose lifestyles are acceptable? So the righteous can go bang a prostitute?

Let me put it this way, and this is just my conjecture, the relationship I have with my wife will pale in comparsion to that relationships we will experience in heaven, for the fundamental reason that those relationships formed there will be perfect. I don't rightly know if I will still be married to my wife, but my guess is that there will be no need for marriage, for there will be no more children to propagate, at least the scriptures don't indicate that there will be children born in heaven..

The Bible teaches that all believers constitute the Bride of Christ. We will all be united in Him. I don't know what that means in the sexual sense, but if we are all married together, then our dealings with each other will reflect this. what ever happens will be done accroding to God's righteousness, but there won't be any prostitutes or immorality in heaven. I just have to believe that God has some pleasant surprises in store.

mee · 11-07-2006, 06:05 PM

[quote=17th Angel;78461]It's not about prooving jah wrong, ]quote] yes you are right ,its not about proving Jah wrong its about proving satan wrong. Jahs way of doing things is always right, satan is the great deciever.the issue of universal sovereinty is what it is all about.

Dondi · 11-07-2006, 07:23 PM

Frances King.

Hello, and welcome to the CR forums.

May I ask what religious affliation you hail from. I'm rather confused by your restatement of my original post.

Regards,

Dondi

Quahom1 · 11-08-2006, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

But... We are not married? So loose lifestyles are acceptable? So the righteous can go bang a prostitute?

Remember the movie "Cocoon"? The essense of the two "spirits" enjoyed each other's company without corporial bodies coming into play. I don't think we could do that today (too much bagage and off kilter thinking, that even the individual may not be aware they have).

But I do remember something about relationships in heaven that are "satisfactory", and pleasant...now I have to search for it. Had to do with a question being asked about marriage in heaven and the response Jesus gives...

v/r

Joshua

Quahom1 · 11-08-2006, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

Frances King.

Hello, and welcome to the CR forums.

May I ask what religious affliation you hail from. I'm rather confused by your restatement of my original post.

Regards,

Dondi

Dondi,

Don't bite on this one. I just realized what the poster did, I'm sorry for that...we'll keep a look out.

v/r

Joshua

cavalier · 11-08-2006, 05:31 AM

I'm not sure what there is to gain from trying to assimilate the experience of heaven into a worldly context.

As Dondi wrote "I believe that what ever physical sensations we experience now will be magnified greatly beyond our ability to comprehend with the limitations of the bodies we have now". It might even go further than this to a point where the very notion of "physical experience" will no longer apply.

The same kind of thing could be said about our relationships. The very idea of "friendship" only makes sense in an existence where there are people with whom we are not friends (not necessarily enemies, just not friends). In heaven, friendships, partners, whatever else, will no longer be relevant.

What will heaven be like? Who knows, but suffice it to say, it will be good.

Francis king · 11-08-2006, 12:37 PM

sorry dondi, if by altering and rehashing ur post I offended u... as for my religious affiliation... would my editing be more acceptable if I was of the same inclination as yourself, or would it make it worse..? Yet, as you're feigning interest... I was brought up a catholic, but have chosen buddhism as my current vehicle, as its teachings suit me better, although I still have a fondness for christ, and am still in awe of the holy spirit I find most of the teachings of christianity to be contrary to common sense, especially notions such as "original sin", "the fall", etc, etc... hence my reworking of ur post...

...don't be too hard on me, though, 'cos I'm new round ere... and please, whatever u do, don't tell Jehovah!

17th Angel · 11-08-2006, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

yes you are right ,its not about proving Jah wrong its about proving satan wrong. Jahs way of doing things is always right, satan is the great deciever.the issue of universal sovereinty is what it is all about.

One thought... Just think about this for a second Mee.

You got jah and satan....

jah: "I'm right! satan is wrong!"
satan: "No... I'm right! jah is in the wrong..."

Why do you trust one over the other? Because one claims to have made everything? But what is satan says he made everything? What proof would you have jah made anything, because he says so? Could he not be the deciever?

They remind me of some really old couple....