a study in the understanding yhwh & elohim

[Thomas]

I have read a lot of the dead sea scroll material and attended a conference on the Dead Sea Scrolls at the Hebrew Union Collage and found that the teacher of Righteous the speak about was Jesus.

As we're in the Christian Forum, the scholarly opinion is that the qualities by which the Teacher of Righteousness is described belong more to John the Baptist than to Jesus Christ.

The best evidence we have is that he lived in the century before Christ. Many have tried to equate the ToR with Christ himself, but close examination of the documents states otherwise. The message of the ToR was strictly orthodox with regard to Jewish prophetic tradition, and to Essene practice - Jesus broke too many rules to be considered an Essene and especially to be considered as the Teacher spoken of.

Thomas

[Marietta]

Hello Thomas, As for myself, I do not take the opinions of others as fact. I personally always do the ground work myself and come to my own conclusions. At the same time I do listen to the opinions of others and weight them carefully before making a desicion as to what I will add to my belief system. I have chosenn not to give my power to mankind or another human being when I am capable of discerning for myself.
I have personally (along with many others) come to the conclusion that the Teacher of Righteousness was indeed Jesus.

What part of Judaism didn't Jesus follow?

Love and Light, Marietta

[Thomas]

Hello Thomas, As for myself, I do not take the opinions of others as fact. I personally always do the ground work myself and come to my own conclusions.
I'm sure we all do, that's why we're here. The point is that the captain of the Titanic would have said the same thing. In fact, prior to realising they are wrong, most poeple would say the same as well. Our own opinions are not proof of anything.

At the same time I do listen to the opinions of others and weight them carefully before making a desicion as to what I will add to my belief system.
So did the Captain of the Titanic. It's laudable, but it doesn't mean you are right, or I am wrong.

What part of Judaism didn't Jesus follow?
I did not say that. I said Jesus broke too many rules of the Essenes to be considered an Essene.

The Essenes community lived under a formal rule in addition to the observances of orthodox Judaism - celibacy, dietary rules, separation of the sexes, etc. In effect they were a very formalistic monastic community and followed very strict rules regarding purification and defilement.

Jesus, on the other hand, had the disconcerting habit or walking, taking, eating and generally passing time with all and sundry who crossed his path - the sick, beggars, liars, demoniacs, prostitutes, adulterers, tax-collectors, fishermen, thieves ... worse - gentiles, and worse than that, the forces of the occupation, and way worse than that ... Samaritans!

No orthodox Esssene would or could conduct him or herself in such a fashion without facing expulsion from the sect - or, the sect would have changed its practices to model themselves of the life and works of Jesus, if indeed He was the TofR, which they did not, so that rather implies he was not.

So we have two options:
Jesus was not an Essene, nor the Teacher of Righteousness, or
Jesus was an Essence and the Teacher of Righteousness, but the rest got it so wrong its unbelievable, turning into some hardline, right-wing organisation.

I might also add that the Damascus Document, from which the TofR is drawn, states that the Essenes, who were founded as an order by the ToR, by their own account predate Jesus by some 150 years.

I have chosenn not to give my power to mankind or another human being when I am capable of discerning for myself.
Yes, the Captain of the Titanic made the same decision.

I might add, you will find not a single authentic spiritual or esoteric tradition that would accept you as an initiate on those terms.

I have personally (along with many others) come to the conclusion that the Teacher of Righteousness was indeed Jesus.
That's OK, that's your prerogative, to believe whatever you like. I know those who believe Jesus was a wise man, a charlatan, a fool, that He never even existed, that He travelled to India, or Tibet, or Japan, or Atlantis, or the Steppes of Russia, or England, or France ... even that Jesus was from Sirius.

All I'm saying is the documents themselves and seem to indicate otherwise.

Pax,

Thomas

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

can I laugh? hehe

Why are you laughing?


luna

[Faithfulservant]

It has to be sacredstar.. think she got her way and has her own followers. Its almost word for word something she would have said.

[mee]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

All things were made through him. Without him was not anything made that has been made.
In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
The same came as a witness, that he might testify about the light, that all might believe through him.
The true light that enlightens everyone was coming into the world.
He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world didn't recognize him.
He came to his own, and those who were his own didn't receive him.
But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God's children, to those who believe in his name:who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
The Word became flesh, and lived among us. We saw his glory, such glory as of the one and only Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.
John testified about him. He cried out, saying, "This was he of whom I said,'He who comes after me has surpassed me, for he was before me.'"
From his fullness we all received grace upon grace.
For the law was given through Moses. Grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.

So yes all things were created by jesus christ, who is life, the word of god, the light of the world, the grace of god, the truth, and the son of god who is god manifested in the flesh, resurrected and glorified for the salvation of man who call upon his name.

"For God(Jehovah) loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son,(Jesus) in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life JOHN 3;16

(Romans 8:32) He who did not even spare his own Son but delivered him up for us all, why will he not also with him kindly give us all other things?

(1 John 4:9) By this the love of God was made manifest in our case, because God sent forth his only-begotten Son into the world that we might gain life through him.......................Knowing who Jesus is, and knowing who Jehovah is ,leads to everlasting life .
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ John 17;3

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by mee

(1 John 4:9) By this the love of God was made manifest in our case, because God sent forth his only-begotten Son into the world that we might gain life through him.......................Knowing who Jesus is, and knowing who Jehovah is ,leads to everlasting life .

yes they are one God (father, son, holy ghost) and god sent the son to die for us, and the holy spirit to comfort us. all taking part in creation, resurrection, and salvation in the name of jesus christ for the glory of god.

[Thomas]

"And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of El Shaddai, but I did not make my name Yahweh known to them."
Exodus 6:3

The Yahwist Tradition of Scripture deployed the name Yahweh from the origin of humanity, whereas according to the Elohist Tradition, the name Yahweh was first revealed to Moses. The Priestly Tradition upholds this teaching.

The Name itself has an uncertain etymology, but it is believed to stem from an archaic form of the Hebrew verb 'to be'.

As no precise translation is possible, all translations are disputed. God is "I am", "I what I am", "I am who I am", "I am he who is", "I am the one who exists", which is how the Greek translates it: 'ego eimi ho on' – God is the only truly existing being.

This means Yahweh is transcendant and remains a mystery, but He also acts in history and in the history of his people. The Greeks hold that God cannot be known in His essence, but in His energies – by which we might say that yahweh is His essence, and Elohim His energies.

Sorry if I've repeated someone, I just wanted to make a note.

Thomas

[Marietta]

Greetings,
What we think of as the name of God in the Hebrew consists of four letters known as the Tetragrammaton (meaning the four letters), YHVH, and is thought to be pronounced “Yahweh.” In reality the “Name” is unutterable. It is said that it consist of 72 consonants which when pronounced will bring the world as we know it to an end. The seventy-two letters are broken down into groups of three. The three letters signify three spiritual forces—a positive charge, a negative charge, and a ground wire—to create a circuit of energy. These 72 Hebrew letters are more than a ‘Name’ as we think a name to be, it is a vibration, the tone that was used in the creation of all things. The word for name in Hebrew is Shem and it means: The source of Existence. It is the vibration that is formed when a word is pronounced or thought (all is thought) that creates ALL Existence. The shapes, sounds, sequences, and vibrations of the 72 names radiate a wide range of energy forces. The Hebrew letters are instruments of power. In fact, the Hebrew word for “letter” actually means pulse or vibration, indicating a flow of energy. The Hebrew alphabet transcends religion, race, geography, and the very concept of language.
The Torah consisting of the first five books of the Old Testament is known as the book of The Law. The Hebrew word ‘Torah’ according to the “Etymological Dictionary of the Hebrew language” literally means: instruction, a book containing all the laws of the universe.
Love and Light, Marietta

[Dor]

Originally Posted by Marietta

Greetings,
What we think of as the name of God in the Hebrew consists of four letters known as the Tetragrammaton (meaning the four letters), YHVH, and is thought to be pronounced “Yahweh.” In reality the “Name” is unutterable. It is said that it consist of 72 consonants which when pronounced will bring the world as we know it to an end. The seventy-two letters are broken down into groups of three. The three letters signify three spiritual forces—a positive charge, a negative charge, and a ground wire—to create a circuit of energy. These 72 Hebrew letters are more than a ‘Name’ as we think a name to be, it is a vibration, the tone that was used in the creation of all things. The word for name in Hebrew is Shem and it means: The source of Existence. It is the vibration that is formed when a word is pronounced or thought (all is thought) that creates ALL Existence. The shapes, sounds, sequences, and vibrations of the 72 names radiate a wide range of energy forces. The Hebrew letters are instruments of power. In fact, the Hebrew word for “letter” actually means pulse or vibration, indicating a flow of energy. The Hebrew alphabet transcends religion, race, geography, and the very concept of language.
The Torah consisting of the first five books of the Old Testament is known as the book of The Law. The Hebrew word ‘Torah’ according to the “Etymological Dictionary of the Hebrew language” literally means: instruction, a book containing all the laws of the universe.
Love and Light, Marietta

and thats comes from where

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Dor

and thats comes from where

I believe it is derived from Kabbalistic traditions, and most likely the tetractys formation, which assigns numbers to Hebrew letters using gematria (geometry). YHWH is allegedly an abbreviation of the original name of God, which has 72 letters.

[juantoo3]

Originally Posted by Marietta

I have read a lot of the dead sea scroll material and attended a conference on the Dead Sea Scrolls at the Hebrew Union Collage and found that the teacher of Righteous the speak about was Jesus.

Cool! I attended a conference at Central Florida University when the Dead Sea Scrolls were first made available to general scholarship back in the early '90's. I seriously don't recall any such association between the ToR and Jesus among the scholars at that time. Come to think of it, there were people back then claiming a lot of things about the Dead Sea Scrolls that simply aren't true. Some of those tabloid rumors persist...like the gal I met that was quite adamant that the DSS spoke of Jesus' "missing years," which they emphatically do not. Strange, but when I offered to let her read my English translation of the DSS, she got huffy and changed the subject...

Originally Posted by Thomas

As we're in the Christian Forum, the scholarly opinion is that the qualities by which the Teacher of Righteousness is described belong more to John the Baptist than to Jesus Christ.

The best evidence we have is that he lived in the century before Christ. Many have tried to equate the ToR with Christ himself, but close examination of the documents states otherwise. The message of the ToR was strictly orthodox with regard to Jewish prophetic tradition, and to Essene practice - Jesus broke too many rules to be considered an Essene and especially to be considered as the Teacher spoken of.

Yep...what he said. (IOW, I second this, not that Thomas needs it)

[China Cat Sunflower]

IamtheGodsoburnmeanoxanddonttouchmybloodyarkorIllz apyoubacktothestoneage.

Or, YHVH for short.

[Dor]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I believe it is derived from Kabbalistic traditions, and most likely the tetractys formation, which assigns numbers to Hebrew letters using gematria (geometry). YHWH is allegedly an abbreviation of the original name of God, which has 72 letters.

That if spoken will destroy the world? Please.

[Thomas]

Thanks juantoo3

Yep...what he said. (IOW, I second this, not that Thomas needs it)

We all need it from time to time. Thanks again.

Thomas