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Old 02-11-2012, 12:58 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: About occultists

Those areas which are of truth within Theosophy are said very mater of factly, then they go back into the multitude of the outer world once more. In every direction, the universe meets in you, this meeting is the explosion of enlightenment. Enlightenment means to encounter a state of oneness, how will you manage it within the multitude? It is not to deny the many, it is to transcend it. There is this Universe, but it is itself part of a larger system in a greater existence, it will go infinitely outwards in this manner, yet the mind decides there is a beginning out of ease. Within you, there are circulatory systems for breath and blood. Within each, there are atoms which again are circular motions, within this again quarks and it can go infinitely in this direction as well, always cyclical - the wheel of life and death.

How to step out of this wheel? You must transcend the opposites, you must come to a point where you simply are not, nothing is arising and you are expecting nothing at all. You are utterly innocent and pure again, as Jesus said: you must be as these Children before you can enter the Kingdom of God. It is absolute, you simply let go. What remains? When there is absolutely nothing, what remains? Someone is aware there is nothing, what is the nature of this knower? Love opens the heart chakra, realizing it is all there is. We remain at the center of feelings though...

Next is the throat center, this one is not at all pleasant but again there is the explosion of a chakra opening. Now energy wishes to go higher still, now your third eye tingles almost constantly, all your energy becomes centered here, pushing on your forehead almost painfully. Again an explosion, now you can sense people around you, there feelings and mind states, intuition is annoyingly hyper. Now meditation goes to the crown chakra gradually, building up gradually until another explosion. Now knowledge is revealed to you, you needn't study. Inquiry takes a strange dimension, answers arise instead of questions, it simply flows, but it never comes in terms of different people - it is the past, the past has evaporated, just a video tape you access on your brain/biological hard drive. You are utterly in the now, always, always there is a light glimmering in your vision, a contentment, happiness. Each opening is a bigger explosion, but now must bring the energy down consciously to function.

This is why I say knowledge needn't be studied, because it comes of its own accord by simply building your energy. You cannot borrow this knowledge, you will simply not understand until you are sufficiently conscious, sufficiently expanded. You can say it is ego, but it is not, truth flows howsoever it might, freedom for all life is the goal. Whatsoever creates a restriction, whatsoever burdens the individual must be avoided because he ego will attach to it. I speak with authority, but it is not arrogance, it is simply not humility. To understand this you must understand the very key of all religiousness - that of oneness. Whatsoever duality you encounter, you must transcend, do not pick one side over the other ever - they are conceptions, and utterly false. Now a new response-ability has arisen, you do not need the law, you simply share that divinity which is flowing from you, open to the moment.

You say I seem knowledgeable about many traditions, it is not so at all, and I knew even less before I started to look for an effective way to express what I had been given. I simply contemplated the Middle Way and lost myself, went deeper into it and learned how it happened. Whosoever expresses that how I have become interested in simply to learn how to express - I only remain on this earth to assist others, what else to do?
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Old 02-11-2012, 01:10 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: About occultists

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Originally Posted by seattlegal View Post
Citta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Pali-English Dictionary suggests citta is heart / mind, and emphasizing it is more the emotive side of mind as opposed to manas as the intellect or mind-sense in the sense of what grasps mental objects (dhammas ). Citta is the object of meditation in the third part of Satipatthana, also called four foundation of mindfulness.
"Citta" primarily represents one's mindset, or state of mind.[3][4] Citta is the term used in to refer to the quality of mental processes as a whole.[5] Citta is neither an entity nor a process; this likely accounts for its not being classified as a skandha, nor mentioned in the paticcasamuppada formula.[6]
The Heart Sutta states that no-dhamma must also be realized, based on this definition of dhamma - which I do not agree with, but I will use it - it means also that mind must be realized as illusory. It says it in far gentler words anyway, in that it says to quiet the mind, which eventually causes the minds death. Without clinging to it, without giving it attention, it simply ceases to be. It is experienced as a type of death, you will be extremely fearful because what you think you is certainly dying. Only then do you lose all illusions, because where else can illusion arise? It is mind all along which veils truth, automatically, ego is dropped and the divine occupies that space... this is bliss, this is melting in utter love, what to say to give it justice? You can only laugh, you can only be thankful for what has been shown to you... you have found your center, the witness.
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Old 02-11-2012, 01:52 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: About occultists

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Originally Posted by seattlegal View Post
Citta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Pali-English Dictionary suggests citta is heart / mind, and emphasizing it is more the emotive side of mind as opposed to manas as the intellect or mind-sense in the sense of what grasps mental objects (dhammas ). Citta is the object of meditation in the third part of Satipatthana, also called four foundation of mindfulness.

"Citta" primarily represents one's mindset, or state of mind.[3][4] Citta is the term used in to refer to the quality of mental processes as a whole.[5] Citta is neither an entity nor a process; this likely accounts for its not being classified as a skandha, nor mentioned in the paticcasamuppada formula.[6]
Thank you, Seattlegal.

Chitta can also be translated as mindstuff, but it should be pointed out that for esotericsts it is considered the innate substance or MATTER, the stuff of the mental [manasic] plane as a whole. It is like physical matter and astral matter, except that while the former is characterized by motion and composes the `extensible world' [the res extensa of Descartes] ... and while the astral is self-luminous [hence the term `astral'], being the `stuff' which composes our - and anyone's - emotions ... the mental world is the Res cogitans of Descartes, and its *inherent* quality is the Principle we call Mind [Manas, individually, Ma'at or Mahat in the Macrocosm].

This makes the entire mental world the clothing of the Planetary Entity, although the latter - the Logos - does not express itself in the lower mental world (or astral or physical) at all. The Higher Manas is the lowest extension or expression of the Soul, the Manasaputra, or `Son of Mind.' The latter are also termed Agnishvatta [Agni + Isvara ... Lord of Fire], especially when considering the relationship of the Soul, whose spiritual attainments belong to past cycles, to the human personality.

The personality in many esoteric teachings is viewed as threefold, or even fourfold. It is, in short, the shadow self or the shadow [of Jungian psychology] ... also the `body' of Pauline Christianity, and the Dweller on the Threshold known in occult teachings. It is composed of the lower mental body [lower manas with its mental vehicle, subject to destruction & reformation with each new birth], plus the astral body and the etheric double & aura. These are expressed through the dense physical body of solid, liquid & gaseous matter, yet the dense body is not a spiritual Principle in occult teachings [as are the other aspects of the Personality].

The Soul proper is the Spiritual Triad of Atma, Buddhi and Higher Manas, whilte it is itself [when focused w/in the Causal or Higher Mental, formless/arupa body] the threefold vehicle of the Spiritual Monad ... quite different in Theosophical teachings from the monads of Liebniz, though not altogether so. The Monad, to me, is the Eternal Pilgrim. It is not separate from the Father, but rather only distinct - in ways that are beyond me. Christ, however, when He referred to Our Father in Heaven, seems to have meant the MONAD. If we wish to extend His invitation to the Logos [Planetary or Solar], we must also adjust our frame of reference, relative to the lower planes or those upon which the Soul finds its native Consciousness.

The Soul is Consciousness Itself in the esoteric teachings. It is the Christ Child, the PRINICPLE of Love and Light [Buddhi-Taijasi] in the embryonic sense, waiting for the fulfilment that comes through the growth to Perfection within and toward the end of the Human Sojourn. This is Beautifully summed up in one short Biblical passage of the New Testament:
"Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ ..." ~ Ephesians 4:13
I quote the next three passages for context, and to prove a point:
"That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love." ~Ibid, 14-16
Key words here: ALL come in the UNITY ... to a PERFECT man ... the fulness of Christ ... EVERY joint supplieth [accordingly] ~ increasing the body, edification in LOVE ...

So, there is Bodhichitta, and while this may refer to a transformed or Enlightened Manas - relatively speaking - it is something that would not be possible were it not for Bodhi ... or Buddhi, when regarded as a spiritual Principle [and Budh+ha, when we speak of the enlightened manushi, or his Solar/Cosmic correlations and parent Monad]. The state of higher Manas, illumined by the Triad Itself is called Manas-Taijasi ... similar to Buddhi-Taijasi, when the influence is also present Buddhically.

Yes, there is plenty of intellectualization for some of, when discussing such things ... and in my case this is abundantly clear. The mistake is to assume that such people, myself or others, do not necessarily have any kind of Buddhic awareness, or that we haven't had, and hence that all we know is our book-learning, and perhaps a friendly `Aha' moment or two ... from the few times we have managed to still our mind well enough to properly meditate.

Such hasty assumptions are what I am hoping to avoid. And I hope that - once a person realizes how much time, how much training - was invested on the part of the many, many occultists who have made contributions in the past couple of centuries, THEN he or she may begin to sense what we ourselves are called to. We are called to no less, but it is up to *each* of US when we will choose to respond .. or find ourselves strong enough, resolved enough and rightly prepared to do so.

In Part I of Light on the Path, given by the Master Hilarion - yet earlier still by the Venetian Chohan, dating back to Atlantean times - the very first words we read, even before the first stanza, run thus:
THESE rules are written for all disciples: Attend you to them.

Before the eyes can see, they must be incapable of tears. Before the ear can hear, it must have lost its sensitiveness. Before the voice can speak in the presence of the Masters it must have lost the power to wound. Before the soul can stand in the presence of the Masters its feet must be washed in the blood of the heart.
I'm not sure I see any wiggle room here, nor any lack of clarity. I do not see two ways to interpret the instruction, nor do I feel any desire to quibble with this Teaching.

But I do feel the inclination to quote from The Diamond Light, the Newsletter of the Aquarian Age Community [No.3, 2011]. I quote extensively, as this adds further light to the topic ... but anyone interested can read the entire article at the above link:
In his Oration on the Dignity of Man that is yet studied in the philosophy departments of well-respected universities today, one of the best known Renaissance philosophers, Giovanni Pico della Mirandola provides the following description of these two distinct aspects of the human being—in the form of a message which Mr. Mirandola imagined God might deliver to each one of us:

“We have made you a creature neither of heaven nor of earth, neither mortal nor immortal, in order that you may, as the free and proud shaper of your own being, fashion yourself in the form you may prefer. It will be in your power to descend to the lower, brutish forms of life; you will be able, through your own decision, to rise again to the superior orders whose life is divine."

In the Ageless Wisdom, presented by the Tibetan Master, Djwhal Khul, in the books of Alice A. Bailey, the shadow is more profoundly and comprehensively conceptualized as the Dweller on the Threshold and defined essentially as the personality—that integrated unity composed of physical forces, vital energy, astral/emotional forces and mental energies, constituting the sum total of the lower nature; it is the potency of the threefold material form, nurtured and developed throughout the eons, over many life times—prior to its conscious cooperation and dedication to the life of the Soul.

Whereas the Dweller indicates the past with its limitations and evil habits; the Angel indicates the future possibility, the next step towards liberation, as it throws light upon the immediate stage of the Path of Light which will eventually lead the individual, and ultimately, humanity, from darkness to light, from the unreal to the real and from death to immortality. The Dweller thus summarizes the accumulated limitations and the sum total of the selfish habits and desires which are characteristic of the material nature.

Just as darkness is not recognized except in contrast to light, so the Dweller is not fully cognized until it becomes aware of its divine counterpart—the Angel of the Presence, the Soul whose nature is love, light and inclusive understanding. It is on the mental plane that the “threshold of divinity” is finally discovered and it is upon the mental plane that these two are eventually brought face to face. Herein the conflict begins and the heroic battle is waged:

“Only when man is an integrated personality does the problem of the Dweller truly arise, and only when the mind is alert and the intelligence organised (as is becoming the case today on a fairly large scale) is it possible for man to sense—intelligently and not just mystically—the Angel and so intuit the PRESENCE. Only then does the entire question of hindrances which the Dweller embodies, and the limitations which it provides to spiritual contact and realisation assume potent proportions. Only then can … steps [be] taken to induce right action." [Glamour: A World Problem, A.A.Bailey, p.152]
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Old 02-11-2012, 01:54 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: About occultists

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The Heart Sutta states that no-dhamma must also be realized, based on this definition of dhamma - which I do not agree with, but I will use it - it means also that mind must be realized as illusory. It says it in far gentler words anyway, in that it says to quiet the mind, which eventually causes the minds death. Without clinging to it, without giving it attention, it simply ceases to be. It is experienced as a type of death, you will be extremely fearful because what you think you is certainly dying. Only then do you lose all illusions, because where else can illusion arise? It is mind all along which veils truth, automatically, ego is dropped and the divine occupies that space... this is bliss, this is melting in utter love, what to say to give it justice? You can only laugh, you can only be thankful for what has been shown to you... you have found your center, the witness.
It is the Long Dark Night of the Soul, of St. John of the Cross ... and it is certainly the greatest struggle you will ever experience - at least while within, wrestling with (and of course, against) the pull of form upon the spiritual Soul [Buddhi, using manas as its vehicle & expression, itself the vehicle of Atma].

Thus, I must respectfully disagree.

There is a thread Thomas has started on the Mystic Path ... that thread being the inspiration for this one. I don't mind contrasts. I just want to focus on the occult path here. Thanks.

Oh! Another great spot for discussing the little self, or ego, would be the Buddhist forums. There is probably more depth, and a more experienced take on that subject [in particular] ... than I could ever render here - or in one lifetime. This is, after all, a critical subject - but only one small [sic!] consideration - in the Mysteries.

addendum: Lunitik, your post on the chakras is right-on. This is one of the subjects which the occultist must become familiar with, for he shall study it again and again, on many levels. He shall never cease to recognize deeper, more profound applications of the more elementary understandings which he first formulates ... on this idea that there are definite centers of focused Consciousness, or energy, or active, Intelligent expression - within all worlds, from physical, astral and mental, to the worlds where Unity and Oneness prevail, as well as Transcendent ... where he can only dream of something Infinite, Eternal yet *demonstrative* of the most sublime experiences which he has yet had on ANY plane - because ultimately, responsible for, or sub-standing, them all.
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Old 02-11-2012, 02:19 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: About occultists

I would share another excerpt, marked mentally by me for inclusion in some kind of post here just yesterday. This is from a book I received two days ago in the mail, authored by Geoffrey Hodson, a Theosophist and extremely gifted clairvoyant occultist, regarded by some as the 20th Century Messenger for modern Theosophy ... in the same or a similar sense as was HPB during the 19th Century.

Mr. Hodson writes:
"The Chohan and Maha-Chohan [6th & 7th Degree Initiates, respectively] ... have broken through other imprisonments into freedoms extending beyond the planet and, in the lattter case, the Solar System. The Buddha of the Eighth Initiation is free beyond the Solar System but not within the Cosmos as a whole. At the Ninth Initiation, matter, as a limiting or enclosing element of existence, loses its power over consciousness elevated through Atma into Anupadaka, with Adi within range by means of yoga. Thereat and thereafter the film of the Maha-Tattva alone limits the range of consciousness.

The imprisoning walls, beginning with the densest, may be enumerated as follows:
  1. A physical body with head-glands and atoms as gateways.
  2. The astro-mental body with chakras as gateways.
  3. The Causal body itself with its attributes of "I-ness" [ahamkara] imparted to the lower three vehicles and with the interior Triple Self within as gateways.
  4. The planet and its planes with the Lords thereof as gateways.
  5. The Solar System with the Lord of the Sun and the Regents of the planets and the interplanetary Officials as gateways.
  6. The Sirian Cosmos with Logos, Lords of the Constellations, and intermediate Officials as gateways.
  7. Extra-Sirian Groupings with Their corresponding Logoi and Archangels as gateways.
  8. Finally, the supracosmic Maha-Tattva, the first formed film of differentiated substance enclosing all creation and with Adi-Buddha as gateway leading into the unknowable Absolute, the apparently impossible "Dark Light" and "Silent Sound."
ZEN, which word comes to us from Dzyan [pronounced JOHN, which is again, the true origin for this Name] ... aims toward the very final of these imaginable gateways ... as Adi-Buddha within esoteric Buddhism [or Budhism] refers not to any kind of manushi [human Buddha] but to something Celestial - and altogether beyond the experience of anyone in our Solar System. All that is Zen may be understood as originating via these gateways, crystalizing or percolating through them, manifesting finally outwardly as the modern `phenomenon' ... but certainly, just as much as any other path, a much-modified, cultivated form of the Ageless Wisdom.

At any rate, I wanted to share what Mr. Hodson had to say on the subject of chakras, having thumbed through the book [The Yogic Ascent to Spiritual Heights] and noticing this section. I would like very much to add another couple of paragraphs, which follow the above quotation. It's only useful if there is a need, as it is further discussion of this subject of gateways ... focusing on the Causal body [the vehicle of Higher Mind, also the upadhi of the Soul] and upon what it is that we can do to attain Consciousness of, and firmly anchored within this `Vesture of Light.'
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Old 02-11-2012, 03:54 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: About occultists

Andrew,

I would add these two titles to your list:

Ninth Initiation, The Lord of the World
Tenth Initiation, The Silent Watcher

It's also a good opportunity to point out a mistake that many people make between Buddhas and Pratyeka Buddhas (both of which are eighth-level Initiates). Many people describe Pratyeka Buddhas as 'selfish Buddhas' but they are not. Pratyeka Buddhas lead whereas (regular) Buddhas teach, guide, and provide compassion. Many people have misinterpreted the ideas that Pratyeka Buddhas do not teach, guide, and provide compassion to mean they are 'selfish.'
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:03 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: About occultists

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Thus, I must respectfully disagree.
Have you experienced it?

If you have not experienced the dark night of the soul, how can you disagree with someone who has come through the other side when he says it is like a death?
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Old 02-11-2012, 01:34 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: About occultists

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Thank you, Seattlegal.

Chitta can also be translated as mindstuff, but it should be pointed out that for esotericsts it is considered the innate substance or MATTER, the stuff of the mental [manasic] plane as a whole. It is like physical matter and astral matter, except that while the former is characterized by motion and composes the `extensible world' [the res extensa of Descartes] ... and while the astral is self-luminous [hence the term `astral'], being the `stuff' which composes our - and anyone's - emotions ... the mental world is the Res cogitans of Descartes, and its *inherent* quality is the Principle we call Mind [Manas, individually, Ma'at or Mahat in the Macrocosm].
Pabhassara Sutta: Luminous

"Luminous, monks, is the mind.[1] [i]{citta--sg} And it is defiled by incoming defilements." {I,v,9}
"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements." {I,v,10}
"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is defiled by incoming defilements. The uninstructed run-of-the-mill person doesn't discern that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person — there is no development of the mind." {I,vi,1}
"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements. The well-instructed disciple of the noble ones discerns that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones — there is development of the mind." {I,vi,2}
Quote:
The personality in many esoteric teachings is viewed as threefold, or even fourfold. It is, in short, the shadow self or the shadow [of Jungian psychology] ... also the `body' of Pauline Christianity, and the Dweller on the Threshold known in occult teachings. It is composed of the lower mental body [lower manas with its mental vehicle, subject to destruction & reformation with each new birth], plus the astral body and the etheric double & aura. These are expressed through the dense physical body of solid, liquid & gaseous matter, yet the dense body is not a spiritual Principle in occult teachings [as are the other aspects of the Personality].
Citta determines personality, and is etymologically realted to the word "To Will." Purification of the citta is so important as it helps to stabilize personality.
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Old 02-11-2012, 02:22 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: About occultists

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Citta determines personality, and is etymologically realted to the word "To Will." Purification of the citta is so important as it helps to stabilize personality.
Buddha has not willed that he teach, he has been convinced to teach - why do you think this is told if will is important to Buddhists? If we are to see that we are not separate, how then can will survive? My use of personality is that which we are programmed with, it is the false self, a persona based on social encounters and figuring out what works and what does not. Individuality is certainly to be upheld, but is wholly different. Individuality is not based on the past at all, it is that unique quality within us which we exist to share. The individual responds to this moment freshly, the personality reacts to this moment based on a kind of training. I hope you understand the differences between the two, although it is subtle.

You have said citta means either mind or heart, I say it refers to pure consciousness free from thinking. It is the Mind, as apposed to the mind, as many Buddhists try to differentiate. It is easier simply to say it is the raw consciousness, the clear sky without clouds passing through, whereas mind is the collection of clouds which we normally identify with. It is a very subtle distinction, and one which many scholars will miss because they do not understand, but this has to be the whole emphasis if you will ever learn from Buddha. When you reach that pure state without clouds distracting you, then you will know the real, if you are trying to hold on to the clouds and give power to them, nothing Buddha says will be a help. Now you make Buddha a philosopher, this is almost criminal because it is utterly opposed to his teaching.

The worst mistake without making this distinction is that you will believe mind is limited to head, it is unlimited if you can drop this belief. Consciousness is what our reality is made of, everything consists of it, and you can experience yourself in each and every thing which exists. They say God is omnipresent, now you understand why, you are in everything and yet you are nowhere in particular. You can also understand omnipotent, this is the occult arts, you can manipulate reality knowing it is not something concrete - this is very dangerous, so mind must be controlled when this becomes your experience, any stray thought can have dire consequences. Omniscience is there because you have never not existed, past and future merge into the present and so you know all, now you simply enjoy without worrying, it simply makes sense so you go with the flow. These are all things which man can experience if the limited mind is dropped, that which I say gives rise to the ego, the identifications with the form, the insistence that you are something distinct and necessary to uphold.
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Old 02-11-2012, 03:12 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: About occultists

Buddha used a clear water simile in the manner you use your clear sky analogy:

Udakarahaka Suttas: A Pool of Water

Now as to to whether you want to see the gravel rocks, etc, so you can actively refute them--"this is not my Self," or if you want to just ignore them is the difference between developing skillful means and living by faith, imo.
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Old 02-11-2012, 03:57 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: About occultists

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Originally Posted by seattlegal View Post
Buddha used a clear water simile in the manner you use your clear sky analogy:

Udakarahaka Suttas: A Pool of Water

Now as to to whether you want to see the gravel rocks, etc, so you can actively refute them--"this is not my Self," or if you want to just ignore them is the difference between developing skillful means and living by faith, imo.
Refute and ignore are both negative activities, thus neither are what he means by skillful.

Skillful is your ability to watch what is happening, the phenomenon that arises, and simply remain detached. This is not something negative, you are not avoiding, but it is not something positive either, you remain separate from the event.

Now, this will look strange since Buddha says all is interdependent and not separate, but through this practice there is gradually a space between the phenomenon and you which forms. Gradually this results in (re)discovery of dharmakaya, the truth body, what you actually are. Now you are one with truth, but you can still enjoy illusion while you remain with the physical body, knowing what is false, there is no problem, it is simply a vehicle you can use to interact in this place. It is not that you say "this is false" though, this is again the mind arising, the ego is trying to come back in...

It is like watching a movie, you will respond to what is on the screen, you will enjoy the events depicted, but you are not in it, you simply witness. You do not have to acknowledge it is a movie to know you are detached from the scene. This is the distinction between your intelligence and vision which the sutra discusses - I cannot call it knowledge because knowledge is something acquired, this is a state when what has been acquired has been dropped and you become pure again.

These corrections are of translation, not my insistence I know better than Buddha, I simply understand what he actually means. Such errors must be corrected, else the seeker will be in trouble.
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Old 02-11-2012, 10:53 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: About occultists

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Andrew,

I would add these two titles to your list:

Ninth Initiation, The Lord of the World
Tenth Initiation, The Silent Watcher

It's also a good opportunity to point out a mistake that many people make between Buddhas and Pratyeka Buddhas (both of which are eighth-level Initiates). Many people describe Pratyeka Buddhas as 'selfish Buddhas' but they are not. Pratyeka Buddhas lead whereas (regular) Buddhas teach, guide, and provide compassion. Many people have misinterpreted the ideas that Pratyeka Buddhas do not teach, guide, and provide compassion to mean they are 'selfish.'
Thanks Nick, and good point ... yes, that's very confusing to one who first starts studying the topic of Initiation. It doesn't remove the conundrums altogether, though. For instance, one of the Kumaras is mentioned in the Agni Yoga teachings as essentially being directly opposed to SK in his aims ... although, ironically, he was one of the 105 who first arrived here ~18mya. Rightly, this rogue Kumara doesn't deserve the name or title that usually gets applied, as the Lightbearers are SK and the remaining esoteric and exoteric Kumaras (of which there are 3 each, one set of which are the future Lords of the World on Mercury).

Again, the Tibetan Master speaks of the "two who fell," again referring to the Kumaras, in this case meaning fell into Generation. Plenty of Mysteries ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunitik
Have you experienced it?

If you have not experienced the dark night of the soul, how can you disagree with someone who has come through the other side when he says it is like a death?
Yes, my friend, and yourself?

I am in the midst of mine, and I recognize those who have emerged triumphant, as well as those who struggle alongside - having theirs. It's not too hard to detect a fib, either.

{Perhaps a bit of discussion regarding what this means - this Long Dark Night - would be in order? If so, start simple, please. Let's start by focusing on who and what is struggling with who and what. I will approach it, as I know Nick will, from something of a Theosophical angle ... but the same motif is of course depicted in every single religion, every tradition imaginable - sometimes more clearly, often quite couched in symbolism & suggestion.}

No, you are right, however. It is not like death. It is death. You will die. Not just again, and again, and again. But I mean YOU .... will die.

That's a hard realization. Please don't force it on anyone around here. I don't think everyone's quite ready for it yet.

St. Paul offers us insight ... "I die daily." Christ Jesus demonstrated the Arhat Initiation, yet it was necessary in his case to part with the physical body. It isn't always necessary that a physical death occur, but often this is so. That point lies far ahead for you and for me.

But indeed, I have known, still know, those who have undergone this Initiation. And every Master of the 5th, 6th Initiation or higher also most certainly knows what it is like. It does not require so much imagination for those approaching that Initiation. For you and for me, however, we can but seek to minimize the interference of the little self, and do our best to embody the Higher Ideal(s).

Best of luck to you ... and to us all!

It isn't a matter of whether, after all. It's just all down to WHEN!
{God willing, Humanity will pick up on this sooner rather than later, and IN TIME for getting a head start as we move into Aquarius ...}

Namaskar
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Old 02-11-2012, 11:49 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: About occultists

LeBron James is committed to yoga From the "thunderbolt pose" to the "hero pose" to the "downward facing dog," Cavaliers superstar LeBron James has become a devout believer in the benefits of yoga. In this highly entertaining article, Brian Windhorst of the Cleveland Plain-Dealer stretches with The (One-Legged) King (Pigeon):When James first came into the NBA at the age of 18 he didn't even tape his ankles, sometimes ate McDonald's an hour before tipoff and his main use for ice was cooling beverages.As he's matured, part out of necessity and part out of pride,nba-shoe.com/derrick-rose-shoes-c-1.html:nba-shoe.com/derrick-rose-shoes-c-1.html]Derrick Rose, he's serious about preparing and maintaining his body for the rigors of an NBA season. That includes a wide range of measures from diet and recovery techniques to the Vajrasana, Virasana and the particularly stunning Salamba Sarvangasana.They are yoga poses and they are also an essential part of James' routine every week."Yoga isn't just about the body, it's also about the mind and it's a technique that has really helped me," James said. "You do have to focus because there's some positions that can really hurt you at times if you aren't focused and breathing right."Make sure you check out the rest of Windhorst's article to see who inspired James to buy lululemon sweats,nba-shoe.com/kevin-garnett-shoes-c-20.html:nba-shoe.com/kevin-garnett-shoes-c-20.html]Kevin Garnett Shoes, a typical LBJ gameday (eat,nba-shoe.com/dwyane-wade-shoes-c-17.html:nba-shoe.com/dwyane-wade-shoes-c-17.html]Dwyane Wade, nap, eat, dominate) and actual photos of him "gettin' his stretch on."
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:09 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: About occultists

For me, the dark night of the soul was utterly dismal, I saw no point in anything at all, I wondered why I was even alive, I wondered why this existence is so, I wondered whether all this was a dream and eventually I'd wake up. Nothing seemed worthwhile, things I used to enjoy, I was just going through the motions now. At my absolute lowest I asked God to show me the point to all this, and gradually he began pointing things out to me subtly. As things moved along it became crystal clear intellectually what was happening to me, but where is the end? Then one day I read a simple quote from Buddha and my mind seemed to run off its tracks contemplating it. I couldn't stop it, it just kept racing but subconsciously, nothing was tangible... then it stopped. What was left? I was left, was I an opposite to something? Everything external had been reduced to God, was this my opposite? Could these be merged? I remembered Christs words: God is love... was I love? All that exists is love, and I was gone. I was absent for 6 hours that day, remembering only a few seconds. When I came out of it, I had such energy, I was still bursting, I wanted to go every which way, explore everything, but in everything wanting to go every direction I just remained still, watching. Still I burst with love, but it is no more unmanageable. It is still my state, pure contentment, happiness for no reason, not wanting for anything, heaven.
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:37 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: About occultists

That willingness to be nothing, that utter let-go, that surrender is the key. The dark night is simply a contrast, just become indifferent to it and let it happen, look at it and understand. You aren't giving up much really, just everything you think you are, but it is the price for truth. Only that concept of "I" dies, it was just an idea, maya, an illusion you empowered and can just as easily drop if you can stop identifying with it. You will have to trust though, you have to understand what is fighting is not you, you are watching the struggle but it is separate.
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