Apologetics

[Basstian]

Here is a theory Maybe J T B had been beatin so severely he was suffering from brain damage and lost his memory???
We could go on and on and on. Your right Didymus the facts are that there is a discrepancy between four men who wrote four versions from four different views at four different times.
Each man seemed to have chose to write what he felt important I would imagine it very hard to choose between all the things Jesus did.

But here is what we do know According to the other gospels JTB did see and baptise Jesus. According to John sometime after this point He chose to question why we cant say but He did. Now why would this be of importance to John to add and not the others?
Matthew gives us a clue
Mt 4:12 Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee;

This was before most of the disciples where called at the very beginning of Jesus ministry. So every gospel would be only by word of mouth.

Mt 9:14 Then came to him the disciples of John, saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not?


Here it seems JTB's disciples where questioning Jesus and the devotion of His disciples.
Mathew clearly states that John did indeed send 2 disciples.

Luke states that JTB baptised Jesus but also sent asking if He was wo to look for.
Now whhat is strang is John;s gospel puts more into the story than the others. But wait Lukes contains the account of Johns Birth which is different.

I just dont know it would have been easier if the Bible had all been written one man. A single view that leaves no room for error or disscusion. I mean why would God ant us to have all these different takes on all this.

Maybe so we wouldnt be lead astray....?????

[KnightoftheRose]

Y'know, I don't see what the big deal is with flaws and contradictions and typos in the Bible (as long as they are minor and not of a theological nature). All they tell me is that the Bible isn't manufactured - that human beings from over two thousand years ago wrote it, and that it hasn't been continuously "improved" upon by either State or Church...

I mean, let's face it - the Bible was written by people who were interpreting both the Holy Spirit and events around them without the benefit of a college education.

If the Bible were "perfect" in every single way, right down to geneology, I would wonder who the heck has been tampering with the evidence. And if the account of Creation included dinosaurs and the Big Bang theory, I would just throw my Bible straightaway into the garbage.

What attracts me to the Bible is its theology, and the profoundly wise lessons to be learned from it - not its "flawless" accounts of various people's lives.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by didymus

Q-- I guess you're right. It does seem that I am the only one who cares about that. Oh well, to me it is still an important point but I'll let it go unless someone would like to discuss it further.

I guess my reasoning for this is because ever since I was christian I have been taught to read the Bible a certain way. When parts such as this came up I received answers such as these. It was doubt, just have faith, we can't explain everything. The underlying tone was always, "hey, back off on these questions, we don't want to discuss that too much".

I suppose I am listening to that inner voice for once that has always nagged at me about these things. Once I responded to this inner voice it went from a dull whisper, grew louder and now it is crystal clear. I pray all the time about these things. i don't want to ruin someone's faith or make them feel bad. For me the days of ignoring the inner voice, the voice that I hear when I pray to God also, are over. Some have told me it is the devil. They say satan is hunting me down and to question is of the devil. To use your words Q, "horse puckey". I don't buy that anymore. I'm on the other side now and you know what, the weather is nice and satan isn't attacking me. And I have this hunch that is growing and growing that says, "jesus would be proud".

Did,

You pose a question that can not be answered immediately, because there is research to be done. No one said that "that is the way it is". What you have done (at least in my case) is caused people to go search and find out more about their Bible. That in my perspective is a very good thing.

Also, there is a perceived underlying question that you want answered..."Is the Bible flawed?" But that becomes easily then "Is the Word of God flawed...

If you are in fact asking that question, the answer is no, not for me.

I am going to find out all I can about "differences in the Gospels", And I will give the results once I secure them. But it will take some time.

Patience is virtuous.

v/r

Q

[didymus]

Q thanks for the understanding. As I said before, and this is only my opinion, God for me is not dependent on anything found in the Bible. I believe that the Bible is good and filled with spiritual truths. But my experience in life is also that God acts and works in people's lives not found in there. So to summarize, the Bible to me contains a portion of the universal truth, not all of it.

Faithful, sorry if I ever came across rude to you. I think I defend myself sometimes because instead of one earnestly questioning what I am saying they immediately jump into auto pilot mode and answer and respond to everything in the orthodox way. I am done with orthodoxy and doctrine. It serves absolutely no peurpose in my life anymore. I have found God to exist outside of that plane of thought and theology.

[didymus]

Since we are on apologetics and Q opened this up for discussion I'll throw out another.

Mark 7:17-19 "Are you so dull?" (in matthew 15 this comment is directed towards Peter) Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this Jesus declared all foods clean)

Acts10:13-15 Then a voice told him,"Get up, Peter kill and eat"
Surely not Lord! Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean"
The voice spoke a second time,"Do not call anything impure that God made clean."

It says this happened 3 times and Peter still walked around pondering the vision afterwords. Peter must have been dull as Jesus said because he scolded him for not understanding the parable he gave in Matthew and Mark. Then he forgot about the scolding , had a vision and still didn't understand what he saw and heard.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by didymus

Since we are on apologetics and Q opened this up for discussion I'll throw out another.

Mark 7:17-19 "Are you so dull?" (in matthew 15 this comment is directed towards Peter) Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this Jesus declared all foods clean)

Acts10:13-15 Then a voice told him,"Get up, Peter kill and eat"
Surely not Lord! Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean"
The voice spoke a second time,"Do not call anything impure that God made clean."

It says this happened 3 times and Peter still walked around pondering the vision afterwords. Peter must have been dull as Jesus said because he scolded him for not understanding the parable he gave in Matthew and Mark. Then he forgot about the scolding , had a vision and still didn't understand what he saw and heard.

Exactly Did, there is nothing unclean, if God says it is not unclean. But that doesn't mean we should not take care in preparing things as Jewish law would insist we do (for our own health and wellfare). Kosher is USDA approved by about 3000 years...or the reverse...Kosher set the standard...ah, you know what I mean.

v/r

Q

[didymus]

But you see my point about ol' Peter? Do you think it likely that Peter forgot what Jesus told him?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by didymus

But you see my point about ol' Peter? Do you think it likely that Peter forgot what Jesus told him?

Oh you mean that Peter! The one who swore he'd die for Christ (which he eventually did), then turned around and denied Him just hours after he was told by Jesus that he would? That Peter? Yes, Peter seemed to conveniently forget whatever he wished to forget, when it suited him.

v/r

Q

[Faithfulservant]

I love Simon Peter.. Shows God can work with ANYONE! I believe the purpose of him being a disciple was for that fact.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

I love Simon Peter.. Shows God can work with ANYONE! I believe the purpose of him being a disciple was for that fact.

i love peter too. seems like he came in threes. deny me 3 times...feed my sheep 3 times. he gave the very first sermon ever preached after Jesus ascended

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Bandit

i love peter too. seems like he came in threes. deny me 3 times...feed my sheep 3 times. he gave the very first sermon ever preached after Jesus ascended

It is said that he also demanded to be cruxified upside down, because he was not worthy to die like Christ. If true, then the man was a showboat to the end...why am I not surprised.

v/r

Q

[Faithfulservant]

For all his clumsiness he loved Jesus very much. Its inspiring to me and I cant wait to meet him.