Approaching Islam

[GlorytoGod]

Originally Posted by farhan

Zeus ofcourse, he rules all of them.

how about Je-zeus ? LOL

[Snugglepuff]

Originally Posted by GlorytoGod

care to name them ?

OK here goes:

Zeus - obvious one
Cernunnos - Celtic antlered God
Pan - God of herds and male sexuality
Osiris - God of regeration
Mars - God of defence
Anubis - God of the Underworld
There's your God also
Horus - God of day and night
Set - God of the moon and thunder
Thoth - God of magic
Angus - Celtic God of love
Belenos - Celtic Sun God
Dagda - Irish God - embodies natural life cycles and urges
Mithras - God of light
Thor - God of Thunder
Odin - God of magic
Nuada - another Sun God
Lugh - another Sun God
Dionysus - God of wine
Uranus - God of the Heavens

There we are... if you look outside Christianity there are some very interesting deities. Whether they exist or not, is debatable, but then so is the existence of every God.

If you're interested you should pop in to the Pagan forum from time to time

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

That's a pretty unhelpful comment, Tao - brings the tone of the thread down to a gutter level. Someone's asked for information, but all you've provided is disengaged base cynicism.

If you want to provide some historical references that may be useful for illustrating the development of Islam and/or the Quran, I'm sure that would be welcome.

Originally Posted by Snugglepuff

Yeah, that comment wasn't exactly helpful, Tao, in fact, let's be honest, that was full of prejudiced cr*p. That's basically the tripe that everyone comes out with when they havent got a clue as to what the religion is about i.e. what I'm trying to avoid.

I was looking for advice (advice being the operative word) on approaching the religion.

But is it prejudiced crap? Or is it the straight unadulterated facts? I am in no doubt which it is. Then again truth is rarely helpful when looking at religions.

[GlorytoGod]

Originally Posted by Snugglepuff

OK here goes:

Zeus - obvious one
Cernunnos - Celtic antlered God
Pan - God of herds and male sexuality
Osiris - God of regeration
Mars - God of defence
Anubis - God of the Underworld
There's your God also
Horus - God of day and night
Set - God of the moon and thunder
Thoth - God of magic
Angus - Celtic God of love
Belenos - Celtic Sun God
Dagda - Irish God - embodies natural life cycles and urges
Mithras - God of light
Thor - God of Thunder
Odin - God of magic
Nuada - another Sun God
Lugh - another Sun God
Dionysus - God of wine
Uranus - God of the Heavens

There we are... if you look outside Christianity there are some very interesting deities. Whether they exist or not, is debatable, but then so is the existence of every God.

If you're interested you should pop in to the Pagan forum from time to time

LOL what I was getting at is how many do you know, not how many have you heard of.

[Snugglepuff]

Originally Posted by GlorytoGod

LOL what I was getting at is how many do you know, not how many have you heard of.

Who says they're not ones I know... don't forget I do come under the Pagan umbrella.... paganism is generally a pantheistic religion.

[Snugglepuff]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

But is it prejudiced crap? Or is it the straight unadulterated facts? I am in no doubt which it is. Then again truth is rarely helpful when looking at religions.

Produce the 'unadulterated facts' with valid sources then I might think you have a point.

[nativeastral]

l studied a bit of islam for a religious studies course and one thing that stood out for me with regards to the emphasis on arabic was that the actual written language was developed via the quran; previously it was the poets who had the upper hand/authority in oral lingiustics/prophecy.

Arabic poetry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


hence the preponderance and elaboration of the script adorning all objects/architecture [still considered the sacred word as like the other abrahamic religions]. like judaism the script writers were given a high status in calligraphy due to their occupation as merit was accrued in doing so; as is now reciting the quran in its original language considered meritious, an act of devotion.

unfortunately very early on there was acrimony. after the prophets death the succession of leadership [it was a tribal society] passed on to his wife's father, abu bakr, rather than his cousin and son in law ali, who eventually did get elected; but he was betrayed by his followers [seceders] and assassinated hence the sorry state of division within islam between sunnis and shia's [who hold a belief in a hidden imam who will return like an awaited messiah at the end of time, much like some jewish/christian thought]. this is why shia's celebrate 'martydom' at the massacre of kerbala where ali's younger brother hussein dies at the hands of the caliphate now based in syria, as a form of redemption [hence the flaggelation with chains].

whereas sunni believes in no speculation on g#ds nature, only to follow commands [taqlid], the shia [imam] doctrines allowed more speculations [ijtihad] developing an inner/outer hermeneutics [hence a flourishing of sufism and a doctrine of dissimulation-taqiya- hiding their allegience to the hidden imam].

[Snugglepuff]

Originally Posted by nativeastral

l studied a bit of islam for a religious studies course and one thing that stood out for me with regards to the emphasis on arabic was that the actual written language was developed via the quran; previously it was the poets who had the upper hand/authority in oral lingiustics/prophecy.

Arabic poetry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


hence the preponderance and elaboration of the script adorning all objects/architecture [still considered the sacred word as like the other abrahamic religions]. like judaism the script writers were given a high status in calligraphy due to their occupation as merit was accrued in doing so; as is now reciting the quran in its original language considered meritious, an act of devotion.

unfortunately very early on there was acrimony. after the prophets death the succession of leadership [it was a tribal society] passed on to his wife's father, abu bakr, rather than his cousin and son in law ali, who eventually did get elected; but he was betrayed by his followers [seceders] and assassinated hence the sorry state of division within islam between sunnis and shia's [who hold a belief in a hidden imam who will return like an awaited messiah at the end of time, much like some jewish/christian thought]. this is why shia's celebrate 'martydom' at the massacre of kerbala where ali's younger brother hussein dies at the hands of the caliphate now based in syria, as a form of redemption [hence the flaggelation with chains].

whereas sunni believes in no speculation on g#ds nature, only to follow commands [taqlid], the shia [imam] doctrines allowed more speculations [ijtihad] developing an inner/outer hermeneutics [hence a flourishing of sufism and a doctrine of dissimulation-taqiya- hiding their allegience to the hidden imam].

See, keep learning new things. I didn't know there was a divide. Hmm... seems that this will be more complicated...

Alot of people trust in the translations of the Christian bible but surely, like the Qur'an, with the original language it was written in, surely there are mistranslations??

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Snugglepuff

Produce the 'unadulterated facts' with valid sources then I might think you have a point.

I do not have to, (and i am sure no one here really wants to see me start over on this again), since you intend buying a koran anyway. It is all in there.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Snugglepuff

Alot of people trust in the translations of the Christian bible but surely, like the Qur'an, with the original language it was written in, surely there are mistranslations??

The Koran was compiled by Uthman a century after the death of Muhammad. He, like Muhammad, was a ruthless tribal warlord well aware of how Constantine had usurped Christian monotheism to political ends. The many, many glaring contradictions and worse, abrogations contained within the Koran show it to be about as credible in authorship as the bible. IE, not credible at all as an authentic script.

[GlorytoGod]

Originally Posted by Snugglepuff

Who says they're not ones I know... don't forget I do come under the Pagan umbrella.... paganism is generally a pantheistic religion.

Originally Posted by Snugglepuff

Whether they exist or not, is debatable, but then so is the existence of every God.

LOL u did sort of, after all you are not even sure that they exist

[nativeastral]

sorry meant to say ali's son, not brother [his eldest had kept quiet in medina compromising with the syrian caliphate mu'awiya] 'thereafter shi'ism will oscillate between quietism and activism' [m.ruthven].

that is why translations into other languages are frowned upon, since the pronunciations are as important as the meanings; unlike the old testament, for the christians, which originally was in koine or the vernacular greek and therefore retranslated, the arabic was honed to perfection within a smaller timescale. but though the quran is considered the 'law', comparable to 'christ' [for eg] the precepts within it - practical doctrines/ethics had to be supplemented by the sunna and hadith.

much better for muslims to enlarge on this; needless to say there are different levels of acurateness in the hadith. sayings of the prophet. l think in turkey they want to re evaluate and get rid of the extraneous bits in it.

[farhan]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

The Koran was compiled by Uthman a century after the death of Muhammad. He, like Muhammad, was a ruthless tribal warlord well aware of how Constantine had usurped Christian monotheism to political ends. The many, many glaring contradictions and worse, abrogations contained within the Koran show it to be about as credible in authorship as the bible. IE, not credible at all as an authentic script.

Do you realise that nobody can compile anything quarter century after his death......... and that was your pure unadulterated fact.......you are really crazy man.

[Snugglepuff]

Originally Posted by GlorytoGod

LOL u did sort of, after all you are not even sure that they exist

I'm not sure any God exists..
Do we even exist?
Who knows.... LOL

[Snugglepuff]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

I do not have to, (and i am sure no one here really wants to see me start over on this again), since you intend buying a koran anyway. It is all in there.

Well then sweetheart, leave me to my reading of the book as I am perfectly capable of forming my own opinions.

If you have provided solid evidence before of your claims, link me to it. But I highly doubt that you have read it yourself, have you??