As a Christian what are your thoughts?

[wil]

Originally Posted by mir

We do not keep dietary laws because of this:
...Thus, we can eat whatever we want.
As for Homosexuality, in the New Testament, the verse Mee quotes is perfect:Mark 7:18 And He said to them, "Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him (oops slight edit)

Namaste mir,

Jesus also said, ye without sin cast the first stone.

One should consider their judgment of others may come back to haunt them.

Originally Posted by mir

God didn't create us to sin so I cannot accept that it is natural state of things.

Well I'm thankful that you are one of those folks that thinks all of the world is nothing but unworthy sinners!

and actually let us discuss mee's quote

Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of YOU were. But YOU have been washed clean, but YOU have been sanctified, but YOU have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God....

I suppose you all rant and jump on all those that lay idoly around playing video games, or some such nonsense, and no revelry 'round your house, nor fornicators? no we'll have none of that will we...

Stone them all!!!

oops, I forgot if they are Christian they have been declared righteous.

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by wil

Jesus also said, ye without sin cast the first stone.

... yet it worked for David?

Originally Posted by wil

One should consider their judgment of others...

... yet it worked for the Son of David?


Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, "O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?"

Matthew 12:34 "O generation of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh."

Matthew 23:33 "You serpents, you generation of vipers, how can you escape the damnation of hell?"

It seems to me the 'fire and brimstone' preachers, or those judged as being judgmental teachers, might... might actually be following someone's example?! Well, just how many preachers delivering baptism ceremonies actually has the person deliver a confession, or how many turn to the crowd and tells them they are a generation of vipers?

[bob x]

I am not refusing to recognize you as human, that is insane. I am refusing to believe that homosexuality is a natural and normal state of being.

It is MY natural state. It may be a minority natural state, but it as natural to me as blueness is natural to my eyes, although that is a minority state also.

God didn't create us to sin so...

...so it follows that the way God created me is not a "sin", no matter what your church says.

I don't think the sin is justifiable in that there is no way it can be positive.

It is the love in my heart, the beauty in my sight, the joy that I share with others. These are all positive things, indeed HOLY to me.

It is a sin, it is wrong, and it will never be right. That's what I mean.

Stop calling me "it". You are saying that *I* am wrong, and *I* will never be right.

We do not keep dietary laws because of this:

Jesus is saying, AGAIN, that right and wrong are not defined by "whatever the old book says". How do you decide which parts of the old book are still relevant and which aren't? Jesus tried to tell you, but I see no sign that you hear him at all.

I just told you how I know and WHY which parts of Leviticus are still applicable.

I must have missed it then.

It is completely trivial for me to have needed to be there when it was written, because with apostolic succession, the faith is unchanged.

The church has changed radically, several times, during the course of its history.

That is ridiculous. Jesus has actually been there, the Apostles have actually been there, the Saints have been there

You're saying Jesus, the Apostles, and the Saints were all homosexuals???? *I* am the one who has "been there".

I don't need to know what is in your head to say that homosexuality is a sin and is not natural in that it is a deviation from our creation.

To say that it is not my nature is to make an assertion about what is in me, an assertion I know to be false. Now of course you can say that I am a "deviation from our creation", excluding me from that "our": God created YOU, but Satan must have made ME?

It is your choice to accept or deny the teachings, not arguing with that.

I have no such "choice" to make: I know quite directly that what you say is false. I cannot look at the sky, see it as blue, and "choose" to believe that it is green, or even more absurdly, "choose" to believe that I see it as green.

You are mistaken. Nobody in your church has any kind of an answer. It has the answer, you just don't like it and don't want to hear it.

Not to the question at issue, which was "how, exactly, would I or anybody "make amends" for having given joy to others? By inflicting pain on them? " You admit that you cannot give any answer to that, but you express the opinion that others in your church can: you are mistaken about that; at least, I have found no conservative Christians, regardless of denomination or ordained status, who has any kind of answer to that.
Now of course your church does give some kinds of "answers" that I do not like to hear. By nature, I find love and joy and beauty where most male humans would not; and your church's "answer" to what I should do is, "Forgo the joys that other humans are allowed to have", which I do not like to hear because people's lives have been rendered pointlessly miserable through following such horrible advice. Asked why joy is "bad" and misery is "good" in my case, your church answers "Because no human being could by nature find joy in such a way", which I do not like to hear because I know it to be a falsehood; and also because those who agree with your church that any creature whose nature is as my nature actually is could not be human, but who do not share your illusion that "Gee, you must not actually be like that, then" but rather understand fully that I am what I am, will naturally then treat me as a subhuman.

It should have said " What you think your nature is isn't natural ".

I KNOW my nature, directly. To repeat, "Since you don't have the direct knowledge of what is in my head, you can decide that I am lying to you, but don't pretend that there is any possibility that I am mistaken."

[cyberpi]

Technically, the 'natural' behavior in anyone is the drive behind adultery, fornication, and a host of other things. There is a strong genetic drive or addiction towards something... a drive that children and some elderly don't have.

[bob x]

Technically, the 'natural' behavior in anyone is the drive behind adultery, fornication, and a host of other things.

That's right. And if anybody should ask why they suppress their natural urges to screw whoever is in sight, a moral argument can be made on the base of not doing harm to others-- but that is not the argument that is made to me. Instead I get this very strange denial that it is in my nature, when in fact it is a very prominent part of my nature.

[mee]

Originally Posted by wil

Namaste mir,

Jesus also said, ye without sin cast the first stone.

One should consider their judgment of others may come back to haunt them.Well I'm thankful that you are one of those folks that thinks all of the world is nothing but unworthy sinners!

and actually let us discuss mee's quote I suppose you all rant and jump on all those that lay idoly around playing video games, or some such nonsense, and no revelry 'round your house, nor fornicators? no we'll have none of that will we...

Stone them all!!!

oops, I forgot if they are Christian they have been declared righteous.

As i mentioned in the post earlier ,what struck me was what it says in verse 11 .. it says thats what some of you WERE remember it was believers that were being spoken to here ,so after becoming christians they gave up unclean practices.


(Colossians 3:7) In those very things YOU, too, once walked when YOU used to live in them.



(Titus 3:3) For even we were once senseless, disobedient, being misled, being slaves to various desires and pleasures, carrying on in badness and envy, abhorrent, hating one another.

people do allsorts of things before becoming believers


(Ephesians 2:3) Yes, among them we all at one time conducted ourselves in harmony with the desires of our flesh, doing the things willed by the flesh and the thoughts, and we were naturally children of wrath even as the rest.



(Titus 3:3) For even we were once senseless, disobedient, being misled, being slaves to various desires and pleasures, carrying on in badness and envy, abhorrent, hating one another.

[bob x]

Well, one thing we can't be accused of is "hating one another"; we would have to become Christians to start doing that.

[mee]

Originally Posted by bob x

Well, one thing we can't be accused of is "hating one another"; we would have to become Christians to start doing that.

No ,we would have to start doing the following ,
When giving final instructions to his disciples, the Son of God said: "I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves." (John 13:34, 35)


"You must love your neighbor as yourself."—MATTHEW 22:39.

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by bob x

Well, one thing we can't be accused of is "hating one another"; we would have to become Christians to start doing that.

I think it's a question of whether, as 21st century (as opposed to 1st century) Christians we're followers of the letter of the Gospel or the Spirit of the Gospel.

[bob x]

You seem to be one of the Christians who opts for the spirit, but Mee is very much a prisoner of the Dead Letter.
Mee, we *already* love each other, as we are. It is only people like you who tell us to hate each other for what we are.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by bob x

You seem to be one of the Christians who opts for the spirit, but Mee is very much a prisoner of the Dead Letter.
Mee, we *already* love each other, as we are. It is only people like you who tell us to hate each other for what we are.

Bravo Bob!! And if they are Muslims... or.. heaven forbid...Palestinian Muslims?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by bob x

You seem to be one of the Christians who opts for the spirit, but Mee is very much a prisoner of the Dead Letter.
Mee, we *already* love each other, as we are. It is only people like you who tell us to hate each other for what we are.

No, it is hate what one does, not what one is.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Bravo Bob!! And if they are Muslims... or.. heaven forbid...Palestinian Muslims?

Claiming a title means nothing. Acting in an atrocious manner and claiming it under a title, tends to associate the deed with the declaration. After awhile the two can become synonomous...

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by wil

Namaste mir,

Jesus also said, ye without sin cast the first stone.

Then out of the blue a huge rock flew throught the air and knocked the harlot on her butt, and Jesus whirled around in surprise...

"MOTHER?!!!"

ya gotta lighten up.

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Then out of the blue a huge rock flew throught the air and knocked the harlot on her butt, and Jesus whirled around in surprise...

"MOTHER?!!!"

ya gotta lighten up.

No that wasn't part of the script . . .

. . . or worse still . . . the huge rock turns out not to be a rock at all . . . but the hand of a lechering man hitting her butt hard. Love ya ma lady. Yo mamma. Who's your daddy?