As a Christian what are your thoughts?

[Francis king]

I would have told him to be quiet... in fact, people preaching in this way riles me so much, I might be inclined to give the shoutee a good slap, or at least point them in the direction of "Matthew"...

[wil]

I was at a stoplight today, 4th and E NW Washington DC, corner of Judiciary square, and there was a soapbox preacher with his bullhorn.

A firetruck and ambulance went by, he seemed a little annoyed that their sirens interrupted his soliloquy. He started mimicking the siren and then went on into some rendition of Alvin and the Chipmunks prior to returning to telling everyone they were going to hell. Quite enlightening, and again, not bringing anyone to Jesus.

Originally Posted by blazn

whether or not you like the way he presented the message, it is truth, and you have heard it.

Hmmmm...there is a fly on your forehead, me thinks I'll use a baseball bat to kill it. Would you mind, or would you deem it overkill and a little inappropriate. After all it would truthfully work for the purpose. Or say you've had a clothing malfunction, would you prefer I tell you discreetly or point it out to the world? There are multiple ways of accomplishing something, some are far superior to others.

Oh, and not to forget the obvious, it is only truth to Christians.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by AndrewX

Two, is it not said -

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. --Matthew 6:5 (KJV)

There are many reasons why a person might stand, and express oneself (or one's thoughts, beliefs, etc.) as this fella did. These can range from mental illness, to an assignment from a college drama class, to pure, random spontaneity (or a practical joke, or dare), to the Joy of the Soul ... or `the Holy Spirit,' as Christians put it.

I disagree with this guy's method, but the reason Matthew 6:5 was left unsaid was because he was NOT praying. And he was NOT "expressing himself." He was talking about Jesus Christ.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by Francis king

or at least point them in the direction of "Matthew"...

Which part?

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by wil

Would you mind, or would you deem it overkill and a little inappropriate.

in today's society, yes, it is not a good way to win people over to christ. it may not be the wisest way to reach people that see crazies talking to themselves or screaming nonsense at the top of their lungs, and see homeless people ask for money and then go spend it on liquor, etc.. i understand all that, but the fact is, what he said is truth whether you like the way he presented it or not, you have heard it.

[AndrewX]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

in today's society, yes, it is not a good way to win people over to christ. it may not be the wisest way to reach people that see crazies talking to themselves or screaming nonsense at the top of their lungs, and see homeless people ask for money and then go spend it on liquor, etc.. i understand all that, but the fact is, what he said is truth whether you like the way he presented it or not, you have heard it.

Well gee, blazn, I could say that about anything I've ever posted here at C-R. So, next time around, when we meet each other here again ... shall I rub it in with a mean-spirited "I told you so!"

Yeah, blazn, I mean - remember - after all, you heard the truth.

Good grief ... sighhhhhhhh

I disagree with this guy's method, but the reason Matthew 6:5 was left unsaid was because he was NOT praying. And he was NOT "expressing himself." He was talking about Jesus Christ.

Yes, but so what? What if he were talking about the Buddha? What if he was reminding us that Allah loves us all? I think it's too bad that people cannot step aside, or out from behind their beliefs, and a religious point of view, long enough to simply smile (or frown, if you prefer) ... and try to see that man for who he is.

So, if I suddenly start talking about Jesus Christ, everyone should shut up and take me seriously, nod their heads, cheer hear-hear .... but if I dare to speak of the truths of another religion, folks should do what? Regard me any differently. If you say this, then your argument is that any person who can memorize a few passages from the Bible pretty well constitutes a preacher. Why bother with ordination? Why not just go get that fella from the bus when you're ready for a marriage ceremony? Or a funeral? Who knows, you might even save a buck or two!

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by AndrewX

So, if I suddenly start talking about Jesus Christ, everyone should shut up and take me seriously, nod their heads, cheer hear-hear .... but if I dare to speak of the truths of another religion, folks should do what? Regard me any differently.

There is no resurrection from the dead except through Christ...

There is no resurrection from the dead except through Christ...

There is no resurrection from the dead except through Christ...

There is no resurrection from the dead except through Christ.

He was the only one who died for you.

He was the only one who died for you.

He was the only one who died for you.

He was the only one who died for you.

[AndrewX]

I can only reply by stating, I am not a Christian ... certainly in the sense that I believe the 2nd of your statements, Pattimax. As for the first statement, I only agree with caveats. But sure, and so what?

Let me only say this, in case it has any meaning for this thread ...

Suppose, rather than this fella's statements about salvation via Jesus Christ, he said something along the lines of --

Ladies and gentlemen, did you know that right now, even as this bus travels down Main St., our atmosphere is literally teeming with sentient, intelligent, extra-terrestrial life? Did you know that these beings are deeply concerned about our well-being, and are doing everything possible to help us move through the current planetary crisis ... yet they are also largely powerless - beyond a certain point - to change our own future, if we ourselves do not step up to plate, and start taking responsibility? Well folks, it's true. YOU, every one of us ... each and every one of US ... can do something to help our planet, and each other, get through this crisis - and reach the goal of a sustainable society. Thank you very much, for your attention.

Hmmm, what do you say, then? Are you still only capable, or so insistent, on simply saying, "Well, he's speaking the truth, and you heard it. Therefore, you're responsible for it." If you take this approach, then fine. After all, such is the case. And, what's more, you've just heard me say it ...

Not in a Bible, yet? No problem. I'll write one for you. Will that help?

Oh don't worry, once I get a few million people to buy into it, it will be `God's word,' right? No? Well then, how do you know, and thus, how do you know that even this brief statement, either of mine, or as uttered by an imaginary chap on an imaginary bus, isn't ... `God's word?' Your argument for what the first fella said, is basically that `he's quoting the TRUTH from THE BIBLE,' is it not?

The point is, if you can't step out of the content of what's being said, long enough to ask questions about CONTEXT ... then I really don't think it even matters - WHAT is being said. After all, the Fundamentalist Christians on the bus will simply nod their heads, or perhaps just silently - or maybe out loud - say something like, hear hear!

And the rest of folks, as we see, will just nod their heads, and say something about mental illness, or make some offhand remark - quite possibly a critical, or cynical one.

The trained psychologist or psychiatrist might have just as much trouble as the Bible-beating Fundamentalist in backing away from the picture, thus what s/he will say will quite possibly be something about what kind of delusion this poor guy is having.

And a person with strong Fundamentalist Muslim beliefs will very possibly take offense, and the rather outspoken nature of the guy who just told us about Jesus, may in fact, lead to an argument.

Truthfully, I'd rather hear something about extra-terrestrials, NOT just because it is equally true, but because I happen to think it is both infinitely more important, relevant and interesting.

But if you want a bit more neutrality, and less potential for an argument (don't worry, some folks will argue regardless - or, as my Mother used to say, "you'd argue with a signpost, and still go the wrong way!" ) ... suppose the fella on the bus said this:

Ladies and gentlemen, right now our planet Earth is going through an environmental crisis. You all know this, as well as I do. Even just the use of public transportation, as we are all doing here today, by riding this bus, can help enormously in energy conservation ... and in preserving our environment and the Earth's natural resources. I'm just an ordinary Joe, but I wanted to THANK you for riding the bus. Have a wonderful day!

Now, as I say, there is still all sorts of potential to either judge, criticize, or find an argument with what would have been said ... and it's easy to ask, "Why did he just do that?" - although, clearly, some of us are not accustomed to looking past CONTENT to even get to CONTEXT.

But I find it somewhat lamentable, that even while we can find presumed Truth in the statements regarding Jesus Christ, and some of us likewise see complete and accurate, factual information in what the fella might have to say about extra-terrestrials, why is it that for some of us, even all three of these scenarios (one actual, two imagined) - only make it so far, before our filters have either, FOUND FAULT, and kicked the statements back out ... or some resonant chord has been struck with our own beliefs, and thus - no additional thought is necessary, since a surface smile of smug self-satisfaction has now been produced.

Is this what we believe is desired, hoped or asked of us, by someone such as a Master Teacher, much less the presumed SAVIOR of Humanity?

I dare to believe that such Great Ones expect more. I like to imagine that They expect much, MUCH more.

And as the Zen saying goes, `Talk does not cook the rice.'

Love & Light ...

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by AndrewX

ISuppose, rather than this fella's statements about salvation via Jesus Christ, he said something along the lines of --

Ladies and gentlemen, did you know that right now, even as this bus travels down Main St., our atmosphere is literally teeming with sentient, intelligent, extra-terrestrial life? Did you know that these beings are deeply concerned about our well-being, and are doing everything possible to help us move through the current planetary crisis ... yet they are also largely powerless - beyond a certain point - to change our own future, if we ourselves do not step up to plate, and start taking responsibility? Well folks, it's true. YOU, every one of us ... each and every one of US ... can do something to help our planet, and each other, get through this crisis - and reach the goal of a sustainable society. Thank you very much, for your attention.

Not in a Bible, yet? No problem. I'll write one for you. Will that help?

Ladies and gentlemen, right now our planet Earth is going through an environmental crisis. You all know this, as well as I do. Even just the use of public transportation, as we are all doing here today, by riding this bus, can help enormously in energy conservation ... and in preserving our environment and the Earth's natural resources. I'm just an ordinary Joe, but I wanted to THANK you for riding the bus. Have a wonderful day!

The original subject of our conversation is harmless. The person you propose sounds like someone trying to get elected on a recycling platform. Maybe he’d let you write his campaign speech. I seriously doubt it would be divinely inspired.

as my Mother used to say, "you'd argue with a signpost, and still go the wrong way!"

You need to listen to your mother.

Lots of Love, Karen

ps: Speech is silver, but silence is gold.
Far-Eastern Proverb

[AndrewX]

Originally Posted by pattimax

The original subject of our conversation is harmless. The person you propose sounds like someone trying to get elected on a recycling platform. Maybe he’d let you write his campaign speech. I seriously doubt it would be divinely inspired.



You need to listen to your mother.

Lots of Love, Karen

ps: Speech is silver, but silence is gold.
Far-Eastern Proverb

Next time you go to pray, Karen ... put one in there for yourself.

In other words, I should have known better than to try and have an actual conversation. Perhaps fifteen people (or two, or three), standing around all reminding each other how great Jesus is, constitutes Divinely inspired, uplifting and sincere conversation. Me, I'd rather consider what's goin' on with the fella on the bus. But dear Karen, all you can do, is judge, criticize and condemn.

No wonder Jesus had His work cut out for Him. And it ain't exactly gotten much easier, yet. Kudos for givin' Him one more case file. And for giving me one more reason to sighhhh. There really is no polite way to tell someone to just SHUT UP. And Karen, that's not a kind thing to say ... likely NOT - WJWD.

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by AndrewX

you'd argue with a signpost, and still go the wrong way!

lol, that's a good one!!!!

[AndrewX]

Originally Posted by Saltmeister

lol, that's a good one!!!!

No kiddin, I was a little hellion! I mean, even before the rebellious teenage years ... and I remember some of that silliness with my Mother. Logic only really meant something to me after I'd taken the college courses as a Philosophy major, and even then, I only wanted to know my syllogisms to pass the exams!

But, I suppose, it explains a lot.

[BlaznFattyz]

And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen; Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.
And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.
And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

as a person you have every right to tune someone out. just because you are flipping channels on the tv and a religious show comes on that matches your religion, that doesnt mean you have to watch it. but if someone wants to praise god, god will hear it.

[AndrewX]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

not really.

I could, and I do. To each his or her own ...

But let's see, so far I've got a STFU, and a "What you say `isn't really' true."

I wouldn't say those things to other people.

I guess it takes a Christian to be able to do that.

Pardon me - I will go mind my business elsewhere.

Yes I KNOW you're thrilled - two of you, at least. Save the keystrokes.

[pattimax]

Awww Andrew! Don't go away mad.