Ascended Masters, Archangels and the Hierarchy

[Hermes]

It seems that the Hierarchy has higher ups such as the Lord of Karma, Archangels, Kumaras etc. I am not very good in the details - maybe a Kumara is an Archangel but the fact is immensely fascinating that even an advanced being - an Archangel such as Lucifer could stumble and make a bad choice so horrendous. Or you perhaps do not believe the lore of Lucifer as the custodian of Mother Earth....
You'd think that an Archangel is beyond faltering and making bad decisions...
What do you think?

[Etu Malku]

Lucifer made no such choice, but rather through his compassion for Mankind, defied a ruthless, jealous, and violent god in order to impart the Knowledge of Good & Evil and Gnosis (Black Flame) that We can all Become gods our selves.

[Hermes]

well that is a little bias ain't it? I thought you did not believe Lucifer/Earth's ex-kumara exists...
g-d is only violent, ruthless and jealous as people made him out to be, falsely I might add....in fact g-d does not care..... Lucifer was supposed to serve Men as custodian but he rebelled, perhaps rightly so but the law must be fulfilled, as custodian of Mother Earth he did not do such as good job, did he?

Originally Posted by Etu Malku

Lucifer made no such choice, but rather through his compassion for Mankind, defied a ruthless, jealous, and violent god in order to impart the Knowledge of Good & Evil and Gnosis (Black Flame) that We can all Become gods our selves.

[AndrewX]

Let's consider the subject as it first came to some of us (in the West) through the following teaching, contained in The Voice of the Silence:

"Behold Migmar,* as in his crimson veils his "Eye" sweeps over slumbering Earth. Behold the fiery aura of the "Hand" of Lhagpa** extended in protecting love over the heads of his ascetics. Both are now servants to Nyima*** left in his absence silent watchers in the night. Yet both in Kalpas past were bright Nyimas, and may in future "Days" again become two Suns. Such are the falls and rises of the Karmic Law in nature."

[*Mars.]

[**Mercury.]

[***The Sun.]

I do not believe that either the consciousness [Being] or the Karma of the Planetaries - Earth, Mars or other - lies within the scope of our awareness. At least, not ordinarily so.

[Etu Malku]

Originally Posted by Hermes

well that is a little bias ain't it? I thought you did not believe Lucifer/Earth's ex-kumara exists...
g-d is only violent, ruthless and jealous as people made him out to be, falsely I might add....in fact g-d does not care..... Lucifer was supposed to serve Men as custodian but he rebelled, perhaps rightly so but the law must be fulfilled, as custodian of Mother Earth he did not do such as good job, did he?

It's really just as biased as your original post, you also confuse ha Satan with Lucifer (who's never been a custodian).

Of course I don't believe Lucifer's corporeal existence, but I'm playing within your paradigm for the sake of discussion.

The ruthlessness and evil bestowed upon Mankind by this god is well documented in the Old Testament and other scriptures. Matter of fact almost every page of the OT had god murdering, raping, abusing someone.


Lucifer makes His debut in the Testaments as the Serpent in the Garden of Eden pointing out to Eve that God is a liar and she will not die if she eats of the fruit of knowledge, which she did and did not die. Lucifer brought us the Truth and our Free Will, shows us the way to either be One with God or to be a God ourselves

Satan is a personification of the Judaic word al-satan or ha-satan (who borrowed it from the Persians' Shaiten) meaning Adversary.
Shaiten did not become Satan until much later where Jewish sects / tribes particularly the Essenes who began referring to anyone not an Essene as the Shaiten. Still further on the Roman Christian church decided it was time to personify Shaiten into Satan and have Him become the scapegoat for all evil in the Christian world.

[Hermes]

There is no mix-up. It is the Judeo/Christian post Nicean mumbo-jumbo that made the mix up. Satan never existed. Lucifer did.

Originally Posted by Etu Malku

It's really just as biased as your original post, you also confuse ha Satan with Lucifer (who's never been a custodian).

Of course I don't believe Lucifer's corporeal existence, but I'm playing within your paradigm for the sake of discussion.

The ruthlessness and evil bestowed upon Mankind by this god is well documented in the Old Testament and other scriptures. Matter of fact almost every page of the OT had god murdering, raping, abusing someone.


Lucifer makes His debut in the Testaments as the Serpent in the Garden of Eden pointing out to Eve that God is a liar and she will not die if she eats of the fruit of knowledge, which she did and did not die. Lucifer brought us the Truth and our Free Will, shows us the way to either be One with God or to be a God ourselves

Satan is a personification of the Judaic word al-satan or ha-satan (who borrowed it from the Persians' Shaiten) meaning Adversary.
Shaiten did not become Satan until much later where Jewish sects / tribes particularly the Essenes who began referring to anyone not an Essene as the Shaiten. Still further on the Roman Christian church decided it was time to personify Shaiten into Satan and have Him become the scapegoat for all evil in the Christian world.

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Hermes

There is no mix-up. It is the Judeo/Christian post Nicean mumbo-jumbo that made the mix up. Satan never existed. Lucifer did.

What do you say about Mara?

[Hermes]

The tempter of Buddha is the same as the tempter of Jesus. Lucifer embodies the world, with all its attachments. It was the same for both. The temptation was perhaps not in body (direct from Lucifer) by a psychic attack from all that is worldly. A metaphor perhaps. All who ascends meets the creature - the dweller of the threshold - which is a aggregate of all our negative thoughts/imagination, ego, attachments, fear, anger all throughout the lifetimes we'had lived.

Originally Posted by seattlegal

What do you say about Mara?

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Hermes

The tempter of Buddha is the same as the tempter of Jesus.

Agreed, of the same sort.

All who ascends meets the creature - the dweller of the threshold - which is a aggregate of all our negative ego, attachments, negative imagination, fear, anger all throughout the lifetimes we'had lived.

Our shadow?

[AndrewX]

Here are three short passages from the Agni Yoga Teachings to pay attention to:

Satan is very anxious to make an end of the Earth, in order to concentrate his forces on the Subtle World, which cannot be destroyed in the same way as Earth. Thus the Proprietor of Earth through present treachery is betraying the Earth. He is a poor Proprietor in that he cultivated such a nature within himself. He causes Us double labor by keeping up the fires of chaos. (FW II, 187)

New planetary chemisms have an enormous significance. One may picture that the chemism of Saturn is attracting a certain type of being. Who knows what penalty is being prepared for those who serve Satan? You have long known the old legend about Satan. One must note that the fury of those who serve him already reaches the point of madness. Thus, for some the spot on Saturn is just a spot, but for others it is a confirmation of the old legend. Many manifestations are related to Armageddon. (FW II, 124)

Wherein lay the revolt of Lucifer?
He wishes to remain within the boundaries of the planet. And the legend of the Prince of the World is fairly true. He began to surround himself with spirits content with the earthly aura. In order to hold his followers he began to unfold before them the possibilities of earth, imitating—at times with skill—the counterposition of the opposing side. ...
Without him there would not be a definite boundary between the earth and the nearest spheres. Without him the difference between life on earth and on other spheres would be gradually effaced, permitting to incarnate spirits the movability of matter. But the Prince of the World, in opposition chains matter to the crust occupied by him. ...
Hence you shall have to depart to Saturn; for this, have you long been called Satan. (EC, pp 119-122)

FW II = Fiery World II [1934]
EC = On Eastern Crossroads [1930]

Not that I don't play devil's advocate too ... but I don't think the prince of darkness needs any help.

[Hermes]

Andrew,
It is very hard for me to be on the other side of the argument of Helena Roerick, of whom you quoted and I agree wholeheartedly with most of the passages, however Satan, as such is IMHO, only as a metaphor an embodiment of all the darkness and the darkworkers on the planet. Our collective consciousness can manifest demons and angels alike, with all the ego, negativity, stupidity and ignorance - SATAN is alive and well, except we created him. Just my two cents. His minions and workers are a different story of course here and in the invisible. All this as a direct result of Lucifer's out-of-the-box ideas....

Originally Posted by AndrewX

Here are three short passages from the Agni Yoga Teachings to pay attention to:

Satan is very anxious to make an end of the Earth, in order to concentrate his forces on the Subtle World, which cannot be destroyed in the same way as Earth. Thus the Proprietor of Earth through present treachery is betraying the Earth. He is a poor Proprietor in that he cultivated such a nature within himself. He causes Us double labor by keeping up the fires of chaos. (FW II, 187)

New planetary chemisms have an enormous significance. One may picture that the chemism of Saturn is attracting a certain type of being. Who knows what penalty is being prepared for those who serve Satan? You have long known the old legend about Satan. One must note that the fury of those who serve him already reaches the point of madness. Thus, for some the spot on Saturn is just a spot, but for others it is a confirmation of the old legend. Many manifestations are related to Armageddon. (FW II, 124)

Wherein lay the revolt of Lucifer?
He wishes to remain within the boundaries of the planet. And the legend of the Prince of the World is fairly true. He began to surround himself with spirits content with the earthly aura. In order to hold his followers he began to unfold before them the possibilities of earth, imitating—at times with skill—the counterposition of the opposing side. ...
Without him there would not be a definite boundary between the earth and the nearest spheres. Without him the difference between life on earth and on other spheres would be gradually effaced, permitting to incarnate spirits the movability of matter. But the Prince of the World, in opposition chains matter to the crust occupied by him. ...
Hence you shall have to depart to Saturn; for this, have you long been called Satan. (EC, pp 119-122)

FW II = Fiery World II [1934]
EC = On Eastern Crossroads [1930]

Not that I don't play devil's advocate too ... but I don't think the prince of darkness needs any help.

[donnann]

Originally Posted by Hermes

Andrew,
It is very hard for me to be on the other side of the argument of Helena Roerick, of whom you quoted and I agree wholeheartedly with most of the passages, however Satan, as such is IMHO, only as a metaphor an embodiment of all the darkness and the darkworkers on the planet. Our collective consciousness can manifest demons and angels alike, with all the ego, negativity, stupidity and ignorance - SATAN is alive and well, except we created him. Just my two cents. His minions and workers are a different story of course here and in the invisible. All this as a direct result of Lucifer's out-of-the-box ideas....

In daniel Michael is referred to as the prince of this world calliing him the prince of the people. And by the way lucifer is female. All this talk about it being a male is the biggest lie on earth. Its venus seen at dawn which is the goddess of the dawn. Look it up. Lucifel is male. Hes the archangel that is the son of god . Lucifer refers to the perfect FEMALE angelic body.

[donnann]

Originally Posted by Hermes

Andrew,
It is very hard for me to be on the other side of the argument of Helena Roerick, of whom you quoted and I agree wholeheartedly with most of the passages, however Satan, as such is IMHO, only as a metaphor an embodiment of all the darkness and the darkworkers on the planet. Our collective consciousness can manifest demons and angels alike, with all the ego, negativity, stupidity and ignorance - SATAN is alive and well, except we created him. Just my two cents. His minions and workers are a different story of course here and in the invisible. All this as a direct result of Lucifer's out-of-the-box ideas....

In Latin, from which the English word is derived, Lucifer (as a noun) means "light-bearer" (from the words lucem ferre). It was the name given to the Morning Star, i.e. the planet Venus when seen at dawn.
The name *h₂ewsṓs is derived from a root *h₂wes / *au̯es "to shine",[2] thus translating to "the shining one". Both the English word east and the Latin auster "south" are from a root cognate adjective *aws-t(e)ro-. Also cognate is aurum "gold", from *awso-. The name for "spring season", *wes-r- is also from the same root. The dawn goddess was also the goddess of spring, involved in the mythology of the Indo-European new year, where the dawn goddess is liberated from imprisonment by a god (reflected in the Rigveda as Indra, in Greek mythology as Dionysus and Cronus).
Besides the name most amenable to reconstruction, *h₂ewsṓs, a number of epithets of the dawn goddess may be reconstructed with some certainty. Among these is *wenos- (also an s-stem), whence Sanskrit vanas "loveliness; desire", used of Uṣas in the Rigveda, and the Latin name Venus and the Norse Vanir. The name indicates that the goddess was imagined as a beautiful nubile woman, who also had aspects of a love goddess.

See female. The reason why they make it look ugly with horns when it is pictured as a male cause its a lie and is a female. Any male claiming to be lucifer is lying.

[donnann]

Originally Posted by Hermes

It seems that the Hierarchy has higher ups such as the Lord of Karma, Archangels, Kumaras etc. I am not very good in the details - maybe a Kumara is an Archangel but the fact is immensely fascinating that even an advanced being - an Archangel such as Lucifer could stumble and make a bad choice so horrendous. Or you perhaps do not believe the lore of Lucifer as the custodian of Mother Earth....
You'd think that an Archangel is beyond faltering and making bad decisions...
What do you think?

Archangels are sons of god. They have free will just like human beings do. They can make mistakes as well . I believe that the fallen angels are in the same condition that fallen mankind is. When the fall occurred the fallen angels spirits and souls were sealed away from their bodies just like human beings so salvation basically is the same. I believe there are luciferian prophecies but that people have them mixed up. The bible clearly says a new heaven not just a new earth which the new heaven is part of the prophecies. Fufillment of these prophecies is the body of a female who is the product of a fallen angel and human but also incarnated from god all as the same person. This is luciferian prophecy. Prior to the fall the angels were like humans and didnt have the highest selves which I call the crystal selves. This prophecy fulfillment is the highest or most center self and is infinite life.

[Etu Malku]

Originally Posted by Hermes

There is no mix-up. It is the Judeo/Christian post Nicean mumbo-jumbo that made the mix up. Satan never existed. Lucifer did.

Actually there is no Lucifer either