Atheist group sells certificates of debaptism

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by wil

The whole concept is just a joke and should be treated as such.

I agree, it is just a bit of fun.

Like selling star names or plots of land on mars, it is just ludicrous designed to incense and Christians are falling for it.

I disagree, it's just a bit of fun. Though it may be used by some Christians to whip up some perverted moral outrage.

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Hitler was a Catholic, Catholic priests gave Nazi salutes when officiating the marriages of Nazi commanders.

According to your wholesale swallowing of his propaganda.

The frightening thing is, these could almost be you:
"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure."

"The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death ... the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity [is] the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

And there's more here. The quotes are denied by Hitler fans and anti-Catholics alike, but Bormann and Speer both endorsed them.

But what is certain fact from documents captured is that once Hitler had got ride of the Jews, the Jesuits were his next target, and the Church after that, for speaking out against him in Germany.

Cleft stick now, old pal, you're singing Hitler's song, it seems ...

+++

On the historical issue, had the church spoken out against Hitler, then he would have grounds to declare Catholics traitors, and try them for treason simply for being Catholic, which is what happened in Elizabethan England, in which far many more Catholics died at the hands at the Protestants than did the latter under 'Bloody Mary'.

By not speaking out, the Church preserved the lives of Catholics in occupied countries, and used what facilities she had to preserve the lives of those Jews she could.

No doubt you will regard all this as Catholic propaganda, but that's OK.

What does worry me is it is the likes of you that engender the environment that sanctions the murder of people purely for holding a belief that differs from your own. Your secular fundamentalism frightens me more than American Christian fundamentalism, and that's saying something.

It's attitudes and voices like yours that has packed our prisons with Moslems since 9.11; that almost everyone of Mediterranean extraction is looked on as a terrorist ... a fact I tried to allude to in a recent post.

Thomas

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Thomas

According to your wholesale swallowing of his propaganda.

The frightening thing is, these could almost be you:
"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure."

"The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death ... the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity [is] the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

And there's more here. The quotes are denied by Hitler fans and anti-Catholics alike, but Bormann and Speer both endorsed them.

But what is certain fact from documents captured is that once Hitler had got ride of the Jews, the Jesuits were his next target, and the Church after that, for speaking out against him in Germany.

Cleft stick now, old pal, you're singing Hitler's song, it seems ...

+++

On the historical issue, had the church spoken out against Hitler, then he would have grounds to declare Catholics traitors, and try them for treason simply for being Catholic, which is what happened in Elizabethan England, in which far many more Catholics died at the hands at the Protestants than did the latter under 'Bloody Mary'.

By not speaking out, the Church preserved the lives of Catholics in occupied countries, and used what facilities she had to preserve the lives of those Jews she could.

No doubt you will regard all this as Catholic propaganda, but that's OK.

What does worry me is it is the likes of you that engender the environment that sanctions the murder of people purely for holding a belief that differs from your own. Your secular fundamentalism frightens me more than American Christian fundamentalism, and that's saying something.

It's attitudes and voices like yours that has packed our prisons with Moslems since 9.11; that almost everyone of Mediterranean extraction is looked on as a terrorist ... a fact I tried to allude to in a recent post.

Thomas

Carry on Thomas, keep trying to discredit me and label me with crap. Throw enough mud in the hope that some of it will stick.

It was the Catholic Church under the direct orders of Pope Pious that operated and murdered close to a million people in Croatia. And with such brutality that they 'shocked' the Nazi party observers. Wriggle all you want Thomas. Try to insult my integrity all you want. You just succeed in illustrating how devious and malign the CC still is.

[dailogue is the best]

@ Tao

Peace Tao,

Shall I understand from your posts that it is religion is the cause of those atrocities and crimes?! If so, how can we then ignore the terrible atrocities made by athesits (eg: communism/atheism)?!

Holding to your view, and reading religion in some of its holders' doings, then we can also hold that atheism is also responsible for the devaluation of human life, and the horrible bloodsheed it caused....

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

@ Tao

Peace Tao,

Shall I understand from your posts that it is religion is the cause of those atrocities and crimes?! If so, how can we then ignore the terrible atrocities made by athesits (eg: communism/atheism)?!

Peace to you too

Communism is not atheism. And I do not represent atheism either. I represent my own thinking and my own thinking alone. I am an atheist because I do not believe there is any God or Deity. Not believing in god or deity does not make me a communist nor a fascist nor affiliate me to any other group. It is a shameI have already stated as much twice on this thread already, but still you cannot see basic logic.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Peace to you too

Communism is not atheism. And I do not represent atheism either. I represent my own thinking and my own thinking alone. I am an atheist because I do not believe there is any God or Deity. Not believing in god or deity does not make me a communist nor a fascist nor affiliate me to any other group. It is a shameI have already stated as much twice on this thread already, but still you cannot see basic logic.

Namaste Tao, it appears what he is trying to convey is that just because some atheists do bad things it cannot be determined atheism is the cause. Same with theists or folks following x religion...unless one can show that all of X religion act like or 90% of X religion act like...is it the fault of X religon or the people?

ie guns don't kill people. people kill people. they use guns, they use religion, as a tool or justification...

I see some logic there.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by wil

Namaste Tao, it appears what he is trying to convey is that just because some atheists do bad things it cannot be determined atheism is the cause. Same with theists or folks following x religion...unless one can show that all of X religion act like or 90% of X religion act like...is it the fault of X religon or the people?

ie guns don't kill people. people kill people. they use guns, they use religion, as a tool or justification...

I see some logic there.

And I would too if that is the argument I saw being presented. But here it is a red herring to deflect from the pertinent points.

[Nick_A]

The greater the objective value of any truth and its potential recognition, the more society as a whole will seek its destruction. It is no different here. We either react to it or see it for what it is.

[Postmaster]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

I do indeed have some issues I would love to see worked out. But this is not one of them. I am absolutely clear on this issue. It is not me or my beliefs that sanction genocide and concentration camps. But repeatedly it has been the sanction of the CC that caused and perpetrated such acts. YOU accuse me of spreading negativity and hatred but it is not me that supports a religion that repeatedly commits mass murder in its name. If the CC had not committed such acts then my words could not appear here. So if you see negativity and hatred in my words you know who to blame.

Don't you see bad behavior in any type of organization? Like political and commercial? A pattern occurs, it always seems to be people in positions of superiority that have a tendency to abuse it.

[GlorytoGod]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Quite!


I'm glad for you ... at this time in the Catholic calendar is the time of renewal.

At the Easter Vigil Mass on Saturday, those who have been preparing through the year to be received into the Church are baptised, so that the first time they engage in the Mystery and receive the Sacrament happens immediately after the Holy Friday service, which recalls its institution. At that service the whole congregation are invited to renew their own baptismal profession.

My Church is a Dominican Priory, and so the Liturgy follows the Monastic form established by St Dominic, so it's full on 'bells and smells' and the whole community is called to an act of veneration of the Cross.

Thomas

sounds great I have never been to a Catholic Church so I really know very little about it.

I have not been a Christian that long but have attended an Assemblies of God Church and now a Partners in Harvest, all good

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

If so, how can we then ignore the terrible atrocities made by athesits (eg: communism/atheism)?!

I just like the circular logic that atheists have a committed a terrible atrocity by being... atheist.

[17th Angel]

It's a money thing.... End of the day do either... And you get the same outcome... You're out of pocket.... But I think you got to be more of an idiot to buy this than the other..... Oh look at me! And how I show my distain for god and silly religious people... I get some pansy ass certificate yay... I'll put it next to my worlds biggest retard certificate.


Seriously who would buy that? lol if anyone I knew did I'd be like get an effin life you loser lol

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by wil

Like selling star names or plots of land on mars, it is just ludicrous designed to incense and Christians are falling for it.

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

I disagree, it's just a bit of fun. Though it may be used by some Christians to whip up some perverted moral outrage.

A lot of beliefs Christians have today were formed simply because Christians were duped into reacting against something they saw as a threat.

Consider, for example, the doctrine of the Trinity or Biblical Inerrancy doctrine.

I find myself shocked at the kind of folly that Christians often engage in when decades or centuries later, we read about it in the history books and wonder how such a reaction could even have happened.

The reason why I am able to say this is because I am not one of the people who got involved in one of these "conflicts." If I had, however, I would probably be just as blind and irrational. It's a question of whether you're in the periphery of a hurricane/cyclone or in the eye or centre of it.

What has happened in this thread seems like a microcosm of what happens on a larger scale.

I'm not saying that it never happens to me. I just tend to get on the scene much later than most and get to play the role of an observer.

(P.S. I have the sneaky suspicion it's part of some social experiment initiated by some government organisation like the FBI, CIA, MI5, ASIO, AFP, KGB, etc.)

[dailogue is the best]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Peace to you too

Communism is not atheism. And I do not represent atheism either. I represent my own thinking and my own thinking alone. I am an atheist because I do not believe there is any God or Deity. Not believing in god or deity does not make me a communist nor a fascist nor affiliate me to any other group. It is a shameI have already stated as much twice on this thread already, but still you cannot see basic logic.

Well, Tao, most communists are atheists. What I want to emphasis, Tao, is that neither atheism nor theism are the causes of atrocities. It is rather the deviated human nature....

It is true that some are committing crimes in the name of religion, yet, the question remains: is there claim true or just prtended? Most people dont take the trouble to check for this, and they take the ready news...


You said: "And I do not represent atheism either. I represent my own thinking and my own thinking alone", though you are atheist. Also, there are some Jewish, Christians, Muslms, Buddhists...who present their own thinking, and their own thinking alone...They dont present their own religion...

PS: Tao, you said you dont believe in God or deity, but I think you do believe in a creator. Dont you? I am interested...

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

And I would ask, for the record, was my post "brought to your attention"? Was someone wanting my tounge cut out?

Not at all - I read the thread and though, "oh, no, not again".

I think your comments above are too unbalanced and unfair - Hitler's ideology was secular but strongly flavoured by contemporary occult influences. There's no Christianity in Fascism.

What may be more interesting is to have a general thread on "ideology" in general, and have a general discussion on the pros and cons of religious and secular ideology.