Baha'i Faith & Freemasonry... - Page 6

Postmaster · 05-23-2007, 01:33 PM

I see, thanks.

Popeyesays · 05-23-2007, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postmaster

The Sufi also resorted to secrecy and Bahauallah became affiliated with them, which contributed to the development of the Baha'i faith. What I don't understand is, religion is imperfect from the truth, yet when it comes to being truthful about ones faith it’s taken seriously. Under Christianity one can not deny there faith either, but is that virtue significant enough for death? Might as well sacrifice someone to the sun god too.

At the time of the Bab and Baha`u'llah the Shi'ih clung to an obscure traditio0n called taqqiyih, or 'denial'. If someone was threatened one was allowed to deny faith in Islam. The Sunni never went overboard on that tradition, the Shi'ih did. When a Babi or Baha`i was arrested and accused to the Shi'ih judges it was the simplest thing in the world to foreswear faith to preserve one's life. Yet to the teachings of the Bab and Baha`u'llah this was unforgivable.

Today in Iran when a Baha`i is arrested and they all too often are, the judges still consider taqqiyih to be the cure for the charge. The fact that Baha`i's WON'T recant is the one thing that scares the Shi'ih authorities the most.

Today some when threatened break and recant. When that is the case the Baha`i institutions will disenroll them not giving Baha`i membership papers to them.

It's a terrible test of faith--one I hope I never have to face. There are many levels of martyrdom, and those Iranian Baha`i's who are denied admission to schools for their faith are martyred just as surely as those who die because of their faith. Martyrdom can be long and suffering or brief and deadly.

regards,
Scott

Postmaster · 05-23-2007, 01:49 PM

So the Bab and Baha'u'llah came out of Shi'ih Islam but rejected taqqiyih which was a tradition they held, unlike the Sunni?

Popeyesays · 05-23-2007, 08:14 PM

The Sunni consider taqqiyih an act of desperation. The Shi'ih largely consider it an act of convenience.

Between 1844 and 1853 as many as 20,000 Babi's were killed in Persia. The priests and bureaucrats considered them the single most dangerous threat to their power--greater than the military and political threats from the Empires of Russia and Great Britain.

Regards,
Scott

Postmaster · 05-23-2007, 11:03 PM

Thats alot of myrtars. Admitting your faith in the face of death is probably the ultimate honour you can offer your faith. What I don't understand is people that are working for a lost cause can also give the same honour in the face of death.

BruceDLimber · 05-29-2007, 01:18 PM

Hi again, Peter!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postmaster

What I don't understand is, religion is imperfect from the truth....

I don't understand what you mean by this.

Please explain.

Regards,

Bruce

BruceDLimber · 05-29-2007, 01:26 PM

Peter, exactly the same thing is going on in Iran today!

There have been literally hundreds of Baha'is executed for practicing the Baha'i Faith in the 28 or so years since the revolution there.

And all any of them would have had to do was recant their Faith, and all would have been restored to them.

One of the most notorious episodes was the hanging of twelve teenage girls whose "crime" was teaching the Baha'i Faith to the children of Baha'is!

One of these was a sixteen-year-old named Mona.

She requested to be last so she could pray for the steadfastness of the others.

When she arrived at the gallows, she kissed the noose and placed it around her own neck.

Baha'is have since celebrated her in song and film, and she's renowned world wide for her faith!

Peace,

Bruce

Postmaster · 05-29-2007, 07:59 PM

I've read and even seen a video clip about this. Very sad, they are angels now this is for sure.

Postmaster · 06-04-2007, 10:10 AM

I bought a book on Freemansonry yesturday and have been flicking through it. I'm going to quote some twisted words of Hitler which I think will help Baha'is understand maybe even an Islamic extremist point of view.

"To strengthen his political position [the Jew] tries to tear down the racial and civil barriers which for a time continue to restrain him at every step. To this end he fights with all the tenacity innate in him for religious tolerance - and in freemasonry, which has succumbed to him completely, he has an excellent instrument with which to fight for his aims and put them across. The governing circles and the higher strata of the political and economic bourgeoisie are brought into the nets by the strings of freemasonry, and never need to suspect what is happening."

It was in hitlers view that the freemasons were co-operative and part of a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world. It's quite clear that this view shows what a paranoid idiot Hitler was.

I would like to point out that religious tolerance was the brainchild of an ingenious prophet called MANI. After Manichaeism I believe developed hidden religious movements that were kept alive by the freemasons, the Sufi and influenced late developing Christianity and Islam. Mani was ironically Anti-Semitist in his theology (only theology).

If it wasn't for Freemasonry there would not have been as much political opposition to Hitler as some of his greatest political opponents were Freemasons that fort to rid the evil of world war 2.

I know that this view has broke Baha'is conventional view of things, as Mani is not regarded a manifestation of God. But as I have said if this be the truth it can reveal as it has done for me that the Baha'i faith is not part of any modern plot that is assumed by Islamic extremists.

BruceDLimber · 06-05-2007, 02:09 PM

Hi again, Peter!

[quote=Postmaster;109149]... Mani was ironically Anti-Semitist in his theology (only theology)....

Mani is not regarded a manifestation of God [by Baha'is....[/quote]

True, he is not.

And if he was indeed anti-semitic, that alone sufices to prove why he couldn't have been!

Peace,

Bruce

arthra · 06-05-2007, 04:17 PM

Postmaster wrote:

Baha'i faith is not part of any modern plot that is assumed by Islamic extremists.

.....

I agree. There are still those who maintain Baha'is were agents of the British and Russians and today since our administrative headquarters are in Israel that Baha'is are connected in some way to Zionism. It's just an absurd allegation that is no different from past allegations.

- Art

9Harmony · 06-05-2007, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postmaster

Baha'is can not be freemasons but it still doesn't mean the Baha'i faith is not the brainchild of the freemasons. And although there might not be any historical connection between the Baha'i faith and Manichaeism its a possibility that Baha'u'llah found inspiration from the religion as he was well aware of various philosophers and prophets of all backgrounds.

Dear Friend,

You are entitled to your own opinion. It appears from your posts that you view Baha'u'llah as nothing more than a mere philosopher.

But as Baha'i's, we believe Baha'u'llah is the Voice of God for this Day. So we believe Baha'u'llah's inspiration comes directly from God alone.

BruceDLimber · 06-05-2007, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postmaster

[It's] a possibility that Baha'u'llah found inspiration from [manicheism] as he was well aware of various philosophers and prophets of all backgrounds.

Except, of course, that He has no formal schooling whatever!

Peace,

Bruce

Postmaster · 06-05-2007, 11:36 PM

I said possiblity. I'm not a Baha'i I have however made an effort more then some to understand the religion. I'm only talking my thoughts, I appreicate the input you guys put in.

And BruceDLimber your right I dropped out of school at 16.

Even though I talk of Baha'u'llah agains't conventional Baha'i scripture doesn't mean I deny his prophethood, doesn't mean I'm not entitled to and doesn't mean I'm right. This forum is for discussion on Baha'i faith not submission to it.

Postmaster · 06-06-2007, 12:11 AM

Some of you are second generation Baha'is I wonder if this when religious elitism will start to form.