Bible inspired by God or just written by man?

[Saltmeister]

I think it all depends what it means when we say that "God was the author" of the Bible.

I cannot conclude that the Bible was infallible, or that people have to insist that it's infallible. A person may be intimate with God but still make mistakes. God doesn't have to force that person to write things the way he wants.

The fact that both the Old and New Testaments were canons means that it was not just a bunch of people who claimed they wrote the word of God and claimed that He had guarded their work against error. They probably didn't even know they were writing the Bible we have now.

The articles of both Testaments were examined by the Rabbis and the leaders of the Early Church who then decided that they must, without doubt, be the work of someone intimate with God -- a "true believer."

My view is that even if the Bible contains errors at the time of writing, the authors were true believers, wrote the Truth about God, or at least tried to, and did not at any point lie about what they wrote. Their insights and ideas showed that they were intimate with God.

Their work was not inspired by ego, selfishness, arrogance or greed but a genuine love for God.

Of course, because of human nature, our thoughts can never be free from evil thoughts, but whatever they put down in paper came from the bright side of their human nature, which God used it to enlighten and illuminate their work.

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by Cobber

Faithfulservant,
This is where you and I may differ. I dont see the bible as "testimonies from God" but man's own experience with God.

Maybe your title "My Letter to Mankind" by God would be better phrased "My experience with God" by Man.

Ok if thats so explain who was there at creation..? Certainly wasnt Moses, who wrote Genesis.. Moses also wasnt there to hear Adams story.. or Noahs story.. Explain when Jesus was in the wilderness being tempted.. Who was there other than Jesus and satan? was Luke there at the birth of Jesus?

We read Psalms and Proverbs and find the words of God to comfort and give us wisdom.. or is David suddenly God? What about Ezekiel and Zecheriah and we read Gods impending wrath.. Who said those things?

I would agree on a combination of both.. but I would not lessen the bibles importance by putting it down to mans experiences with God.

[Quahom1]

Here is another point to ponder...witnesses watched a dis-embodied hand write something on the palace wall, before some king and his entourage. The writing condemned the kingdom, and the king knew instantly that God had judged him and his, found them lacking, and the end was upon them (wish I could remember which book that was in). This spectacle was witnessed by many people, and written by the author (or prophet).

In case it wasn't noticed, this is how we get the term "the writing is on the wall"

v/r

Q

BTW...how did we come up with the term "between a rock and an hard place"?

[brucegdc]

Try the book of Daniel, Quahom :-) Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin...

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by brucegdc

Try the book of Daniel, Quahom :-) Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin...

That's it! Much obliged Bruce.

[Cobber]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Ok if thats so explain who was there at creation..? Certainly wasnt Moses, who wrote Genesis.. Moses also wasnt there to hear Adams story.. or Noahs story.. Explain when Jesus was in the wilderness being tempted.. Who was there other than Jesus and satan? was Luke there at the birth of Jesus?

We read Psalms and Proverbs and find the words of God to comfort and give us wisdom.. or is David suddenly God? What about Ezekiel and Zecheriah and we read Gods impending wrath.. Who said those things?

I would agree on a combination of both.. but I would not lessen the bibles importance by putting it down to mans experiences with God.

We could spend a lot of time talking about the authorship of the Bible, but it may be beneficial to start a new thread if that is the case.

Just to give a rebuttal to your first statement "Certainly wasnt Moses, who wrote Genesis". Nowhere in the Bible is it specifically stated that Moses wrote genisis or the entire Pentateuch (1st five books of the OT). Even if one believes in the inerrancy of the Bible, a case can be made that he authored only parts and that other writers added sections of their own and/or edited the resultant text.

Most liberal Christians (I would consider myself in this category) generally accept the "Documentary Hypothesis" which asserts that the Pentateuch was written by a group of four authors, from various locations in Palestine, over a period of centuries. Each wrote with the goal of promoting his/her own religious views.

[Faithfulservant]

yeah I would say thats liberal thinking lol

btw I know what the pentateuch is but Im going to assume that you made that comment for others that may not know.

So when God gave Moses the 10 commandments on stone.. someone was promoting their religious beliefs? Do you also deny the flood and creation or the passover? So in your liberal thinking.. who exactly is Christ? Which parts of the bible do you hold true..if any?

The Laws of the OT for the Jews were what then? Political agenda?

Are you saying Judiasm was not actually valid? That someone decided they would perjure themselves to further their own end?

Are you even suggesting that God doesnt exist?

Thats a broad view you have and with many implications of disbelief that someone could read into it.

Do you not believe that the Lord destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because there were not 10 righteous found there?

You and I are on very different levels of belief.

Ive never heard of this btw.. It seems satan has developed another means to contradict the validity of the scriptures...
My fiance has heard of this so maybe Im lacking knowledge in the methods used by the adversary. Thanks for the heads up

[Cobber]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

yeah I would say thats liberal thinking lol

btw I know what the pentateuch is but Im going to assume that you made that comment for others that may not know.

So when God gave Moses the 10 commandments on stone.. someone was promoting their religious beliefs? Do you also deny the flood and creation or the passover? So in your liberal thinking.. who exactly is Christ? Which parts of the bible do you hold true..if any?

The Laws of the OT for the Jews were what then? Political agenda?

Are you saying Judiasm was not actually valid? That someone decided they would perjure themselves to further their own end?

Are you even suggesting that God doesnt exist?



Thats a broad view you have and with many implications of disbelief that someone could read into it.

Do you not believe that the Lord destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because there were not 10 righteous found there?

You and I are on very different levels of belief.

Ive never heard of this btw.. It seems satan has developed another means to contradict the validity of the scriptures...
My fiance has heard of this so maybe Im lacking knowledge in the methods used by the adversary. Thanks for the heads up

With regard to any documentation of history we need to classify what is primary evidence and secondary evidence. If those books were not written by the people concerned then we are reliant on the authors and their intepretations of the events.

For me the creation and flood stories validity is not whats important. It is an explanation of why things are the way they, a bit like the aboriginal "dreamtime" stories that were passed down through the generations. The awesomeness of God, his power, might, compassion and love on mankind is what is more important learning from these books.

I am not saying that God doesnt exist, far from it. I just dont look at the bible in a literal intepretation. By that I mean I am aware of the authorship of the bible (particularly around the social context at the time of writing and the authors own limitations of knowledge). Remember the world was perceived to be flat until 500 years ago.

[Faithfulservant]

Remember the world was perceived to be flat until 500 years ago.

au contraire

Isaiah 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

Job 26:10 He drew a circular horizon on the face of the waters, At the boundary of light and darkness.

Proverbs 8:27 When He prepared the heavens, I was there, When He drew a circle on the face of the deep,

Amos 9:6 He who builds His layers in the sky, And has founded His strata in the earth; Who calls for the waters of the sea, And pours them out on the face of the earth-- The Lord is His name.

Job 26:7 He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing.

Pretty big statements made by men with no understanding of todays science.... and this is certainly older than 500 years..

Makes you wonder what else God revealed in His word that we dont even comprehend because its so far ahead of us..

I'll stick with taking the bible literally

[Cobber]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

au contraire

Isaiah 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

Job 26:10 He drew a circular horizon on the face of the waters, At the boundary of light and darkness.

Proverbs 8:27 When He prepared the heavens, I was there, When He drew a circle on the face of the deep,

Amos 9:6 He who builds His layers in the sky, And has founded His strata in the earth; Who calls for the waters of the sea, And pours them out on the face of the earth-- The Lord is His name.

Job 26:7 He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing.

Pretty big statements made by men with no understanding of todays science.... and this is certainly older than 500 years..

Makes you wonder what else God revealed in His word that we dont even comprehend because its so far ahead of us..

I'll stick with taking the bible literally

Is it just me or is a circle is 2 dimensional. ie in the context it was written you could interpret that the earth was 2 dimensional on a flat disk. It sounds to me you are very supportive of the idea of the bible "without error".

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by Cobber

Is it just me or is a circle is 2 dimensional. ie in the context it was written you could interpret that the earth was 2 dimensional on a flat disk. It sounds to me you are very supportive of the idea of the bible "without error".

completely without error.. Do you honestly think that if we as an intelligent species just figured out that the world is round 500 years ago could undersand the layers of the atmostphere in thousands of years ago..? Or that the earth hung from nothing?? Think about it... the idea that there were other planets much less a solar system would not have been something that was thought.

Job 26:10 He drew a circular horizon on the face of the waters, At the boundary of light and darkness.

a circular horizon on the face of the water at the boundary of light and darkness... when you see the sun set.. it rises from a different direction.........a circle. When was it known that the earth rotated?

This is a big mystery in the bible that came to pass as we advance our knowledge.. Im continuously amazed at how blind we are and yet so very intelligent.

[Dor]

[QUOTE=Cobber]Is it just me or is a circle is 2 dimensional.QUOTE]

Luk 17:34I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. :36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.(KJV)

How is it day and night at the same time when he returns if they thought it was a flat 2 dimensional circle....It could not be unless it was a sphere.

[Cobber]

[QUOTE=Dor]

Originally Posted by Cobber

Is it just me or is a circle is 2 dimensional.QUOTE]

Luk 17:34I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. :36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.(KJV)

How is it day and night at the same time when he returns if they thought it was a flat 2 dimensional circle....It could not be unless it was a sphere.

You have used a very ambigious quote from the bible. One interpretation is that people will be taken up to heaven in one instant. Since some are sleeping (presumably at night) and others are working (presumably in the day time), then the passage would imply that there are people on both sides of the earth. Thus, the earth must be two-sided; and potentially spherical. But on the other hand it could mean that the process of taking people up to heaven might occupy many hours. Thus it might interrupt some people during the afternoon while they are at work, and others at night time when they were sleeping. That would be compatible with a flat earth.

[Faithfulservant]

luke 17:24 For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His day.

Have you ever seen lightening flash that took hours? No.. its quick.. so quick you could miss it if you werent watching.

How would these people know that in one moment... the same amount of time for lightening to flash across the sky.. how would they know that in one part of the world its daytime and in the other its nighttime? How far do you think these people have traveled in so quick a time to understand that concept? We have timezones I know what time it is in London from the US. I know that you are 9 hours ahead of me so when Im going to bed at night you are just waking up..

Their world did not extend that far they did not even know about this piece of land I live on.

[Cobber]

Hi faithfulservant,

I dont know what point you are trying to make? This line just makes the analogy that when jesus comes he will be visible to all just like lightning in the sky is visible from many different parts of the world