Borat....

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

c18 are a very nasty neo-nazi group indeed. 17th - it doesn't sound that funny to *me*. i believe the joke is that you're supposed to think the person doing these things is an idiot and that the acts themselves are ridiculous and stupid. what you are suggesting just sounds kind of scary. like i say, borat is clearly someone you're supposed to laugh at. if the "running of the jews" thing had been a set-up, say in pakistan or saudi arabia or iran, it would have been much less funny, because that's precisely the sort of nastiness some people over there believe. that's what the bathetic treatment of it by sb-c is satirising.

i think you get my point.

b'shalom

bananabrain

I understand and get the point but when you cut it down to the basic's as you said yourself... It is quite scary..

[wil]

All In The Family got away with a white racist cutting down the world...shining a big light on stereotypes....as did Jackie Gleason and the Honeymooners.

In my mind when Borat makes you queezy it is stirring up some latent thoughts that haven't completely been exposed, some raw nerves that feel this shouldn't be out in public.

But exposure to the ridiculousness of it all has to be cleansing.

The Hazzan at the synagogue I infrequent had a discussion on Borat and Kramer...both making the news in close proximity...what is inappropriate...what is appropriate...how humor can go the wrong way...but even if it does how the spotlight is still identifying issues that need to be addressed.

[17th Angel]

I guess my issue is, that this sort of "topic" is humour when "one of it's own" does it... But if another does it, it is basically a crude "hate" crime.... indeed back in the day there were many racist jokes and such... I can remember comedy shows like this, but in this day and age, haven't we laid laws down to not allow such shows? I am sure there are laws about it lol.... Ugh, nevermind.

[I, Brian]

Watched Borat and for the most part enjoyed it.

I think it's clear to many as well that Sasha Boren Cohen is actually Jewish, and there's an unwritten rule of comedy that it's safe to make jokes involving your own gender/race/religion/nationality and similar affiliations, but you rarely do so about people in others without inviting offence.

So the Running of the Jew and similar skits were funny because it was a Jewish guy ridiculing prejudices that could apply to himself. And they were made ridiculous.

The only part I wasn't keen on was the naked wrestling. Was a little far off for my taste, but hats off to him for daring to be challenging in that sense when he probably didn't need to.

[wil]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

So the Running of the Jew and similar skits were funny because it was a Jewish guy ridiculing prejudices that could apply to himself. And they were made ridiculous.

The only part I wasn't keen on was the naked wrestling. Was a little far off for my taste, but hats off to him for daring to be challenging in that sense when he probably didn't need to.

I guess making fun of stereotypes of a group to which you are a member is like expanding self deprecating humor to the membership.

Speaking of members and membership...I think the naked wrestling ending up in various sexual positions was to entice the homophobic part of us...to disgust us, to challenge our 'tolerant' nature...those of us who claim to have a tolerant nature that is. Challenged mine I must say. Of course I also thought I'd never laugh so hard at two hairy naked guys rolling around.....and a nervous laughter it was...

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

there's an unwritten rule of comedy that it's safe to make jokes involving your own gender/race/religion/nationality and similar affiliations

That is total bs.... A black man can call a black man a nigger... But, you are now all going freaking crazy because I typed the word nigger, twice..... OH NO!! GET HIM!!!

It shouldn't be like that... If one can joke/insult about one type of person every type of person should also be acceptable... It is another thing to prevent "discrimination" Which only causes even more discrimination... So me saying, nigger, fag, kyke.... whatever is bad and hurts? And it wouldn't be seen as comedy? Then do not let -anyone- do this so called comedy.... Simple. But to say it is ok for one and not another is total bs.

Originally Posted by I, Brian

So the Running of the Jew and similar skits were funny because it was a Jewish guy ridiculing prejudices that could apply to himself. And they were made ridiculous.

Yeah, wow... Seriously... How, hilarious.....

[wil]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

That is total bs.... A black man can call a black man a nigger... But, you are now all going freaking crazy because I typed the word nigger, twice..... OH NO!! GET HIM!!!

It shouldn't be like that... If one can joke/insult about one type of person every type of person should also be acceptable... It is another thing to prevent "discrimination" Which only causes even more discrimination... So me saying, nigger, fag, kyke.... whatever is bad and hurts? And it wouldn't be seen as comedy? Then do not let -anyone- do this so called comedy.... Simple. But to say it is ok for one and not another is total bs.

Sorry I don't buy it. While I have no issues with you using that word as a descriptor of your point in your statement, I feel it completely unnappropriate to use it as a joke. As I indicated it is an extension of self deprecating humor...and humor based on putting down another or another group is not humor...it is sadism, racism, extending stereotypes...and when heard out of context by people that are unaware...which happens all the time..urban legends..suddenly we have a 'reason' to be racist...because x, y or z is true...

"Kramer" tried to cover his slip and make it comedy...it wasn't and everyone that watched it, everyone that was there knows it wasn't comedy or even failed attempt at comedy, it was a trainwreck by a frustrated comedian who allowed some of his latent racism out on stage at a heckler...plenty of ways to handle hecklers without going there.

Using an abusive derogatory term in a demeaning way even in your own group does not make it any less abusive or derogatory and does not give anyone license to follow suit.

[17th Angel]

So you're in agreement with me? It doesn't matter where you come from or what you represent... It's wrong. Nice.

Pretty certain When King did his speech it didn't say...

I have a dream, that one day this nation will rise up and live out -most- of it's true meaning of it's creed; "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal." I have a dream that one day we will not be thrown abuse by the others, and not insulted and hated, However we will demean our own people and do it ourselves... ;/

[bananabrain]

i maintain it's about the context. when michael richards (kramer) had his "trainwreck" it wasn't funny. he should have known it wouldn't be funny and not try it. basically, these things are dependent upon whether the person or being ridiculed recognises, accepts and even approves the ridicule -so if someone recognises that X is true for them, they'll more likely find it funny - so in the case of the "running of the jews", we recognise that there are people who think of us like that and find its very extremism to be ridiculous - it would have been much less funny if it had been less absurd and extreme. by the same token, something that is clearly true for the audience is more hard-hitting; take chris rock's famous routine about the difference between "black people" and "n...." in which he says that the latter are causing all the problems for the former - in front of a black audience who are clearly finding the whole thing hilarious. personally, i wouldn't really know whether to laugh or not as i'm not black, so i can't empathise effectively enough to understand the humour. i'd call that a private-ish sort of joke, as opposed to something like "goodness gracious me", which is cross-cultural in that everyone has annoying mothers and aunties and therefore you recognise something in oneself.

b'shalom

bananabrain