Bush, God And War - Page 2

wil · 08-21-2007, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I call it cheap shots at my people (my nation), who voted him in twice. I call it cheap shots at the very spirit that is these United States.

uh, er, the people, the popular vote didn't do that, the electoral college and the supreme court did....how soon we forget.

as for the war... YouTube - Cheney '94: Invading Baghdad Would Create Quagmire C-SPAN

flowperson · 08-21-2007, 06:31 PM

I thought I'd take a moment to try and raise the devolutional trend in this thread.

Yes, he is our President, but just having the title doesn't, and shouldn't, command the continuing respect of the elected person by people that the office governs. It is the ongoing performance of the person holding the office that can only encourage or subvert the peoples' active participation in the policies and wishes of the person holding such an influential position. I believe that over six years of this person's activities while in office have given most of us a fairly clear picture of this particular leader's abilities, activities, and intents.

On another, and hopefully more apropos note, here is a recent interview with a former Secretary of State that, for the first time in my memory, addresses the true importance of the recognition of G-d and religion in matters of statecraft.

flow....

Albright: Ignore religion 'at our own peril' - CNN.com

AndrewX · 08-22-2007, 01:28 AM

VOTED this man IN, Q? Gimmie a friggin BREAK!

We ALL know who actually won the vote on the first go-round, and were it not for the ILLEGAL actions of the supposedly `supreme' court of this nation ... the sell-outs who long ago traded their soul to the highest biddder ... dumbiya would NEVER have won the recount!

Stupid george bush never won anything in his life ... he couldn't keep his own oil companies from going under, which they did again, and again, and again. And that's despite bail-outs from the Saudis!!! (I would need to check my facts to confirm this - how DARE I listen to Michael Moore!!! care to prove me wrong, Joshua???

)

But let's see ... CRACK COCAINE addict ... DWI record ... AWOL from the stupid National Guard for christ-sakes (how hard IS IT to sit around playing friggin CARDS all day, I mean COME ON dubya!) ....

-- CAN'T EVEN READ A DUMB CUE-CARD CORRECTLY (much less hold a CHILD'S STORYBOOK right side up as he SITS, drooling, wondering WHAT TO DO WHEN YOUR NATION HAS JUST BEEN BOMBED).

Yeah, Joshua, I am SOOOO proud of this man my NOT president.

What, me ANGRY at this LIE???

Me SERIOUSLY P.O.'d that the wool has been pulled down so far over people's eyes, and APATHY allowed to seep into our souls, and GREED and MATERIALISM come to SOAK us thus ... such that Darkness can now reach out its finger and easily, instantly tap YOUR blind fervor of Nationalism, and MY angry `spirit' of Rebelliousness???

Yeah, Q. You might say that.

I didn't go to war in '68, or '69, because I WANTED to kill people overseas, and sure, circumstances then would have been quite different, both for our Nation (and planet) - AND for the individual you'd have actually met, had you met "me."

But buddy, I got my proverbial ASS shot off over there. And after a fashion, I did that for YOU. Get out from behind that nose of yours next time you feel like giving me a bit of finger, and remember - you ain't the ONLY SOLDIER 'round here. I wouldn't last TWO SECONDS in today's Army. That may not be ... but in '68 or '69 I was qualified enough to get shipped overseas and KILL people so your Dad could keep puttin you in diapers.

Do you like it when people come off that way?

Uh huh. But this time, it's Gospel.

Sure it's easy, when you're not in the other man's shoes. But when THAT MAN - george dubya bush - won't even fill his own shoes, show up to DO HIS own duty ... or face the music, and ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY for his own misdeeds (which later only become so much "youthful INDISCRETION" if we do ever prove his transgressions) ... it makes it AWFUL hard to believe this HORSE-**** about "GOD told me yadda yadda, go bomb and kill yadda."

Bush may be your president, Q, because YOU might have voted for him. But in a nation where NUMBERS don't do it, and where the ELECTORAL VOTE has ceased to decide the winner, and where the HIGHEST COURT OF THE LAND has also failed to do its job ... president in no different than DICTATOR.

MOB RULES
MIGHT MAKES RIGHT

And thus is the `law' of Satan.

Happy worshipping ...

Men like JFK, Dr. MLK, Jr. and M. Gandhi are sniped and assassinated ... while chimps and imps like dubya and nixon are allowed to work their black magic on the masses. These WAR PIGS do help keep the balance, I will grant you that - and keep our society from progressing too far, too quickly. For that, should I praise evil, and worship the Lord of Entropy, the God of Bass-ackwards-ness?

Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
Got two good eyes but WE still don't see

-- (`Casey Jones,' The Grateful Dead)

Quahom1 · 08-22-2007, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

uh, er, the people, the popular vote didn't do that, the electoral college and the supreme court did....how soon we forget.

as for the war... YouTube - Cheney '94: Invading Baghdad Would Create Quagmire C-SPAN

Eh, electoral college is based on majority vote. And the Supreme court does not arbitrarily judge who is president and who is not...how much we forget...

as for the war, been there done that have the tee shirt with holes in it...so do my own, and they say they'd go back in a New York second

the "sieve" just got plugged by our own youngins...

Quahom1 · 08-22-2007, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewX

VOTED this man IN, Q? Gimmie a friggin BREAK!

We ALL know who actually won the vote on the first go-round, and were it not for the ILLEGAL actions of the supposedly `supreme' court of this nation ... the sell-outs who long ago traded their soul to the highest biddder ... dumbiya would NEVER have won the recount!

Stupid george bush never won anything in his life ... he couldn't keep his own oil companies from going under, which they did again, and again, and again. And that's despite bail-outs from the Saudis!!! (I would need to check my facts to confirm this - how DARE I listen to Michael Moore!!! care to prove me wrong, Joshua???

)

But let's see ... CRACK COCAINE addict ... DWI record ... AWOL from the stupid National Guard for christ-sakes (how hard IS IT to sit around playing friggin CARDS all day, I mean COME ON dubya!) ....

-- CAN'T EVEN READ A DUMB CUE-CARD CORRECTLY (much less hold a CHILD'S STORYBOOK right side up as he SITS, drooling, wondering WHAT TO DO WHEN YOUR NATION HAS JUST BEEN BOMBED).

Yeah, Joshua, I am SOOOO proud of this man my NOT president.

What, me ANGRY at this LIE???

Me SERIOUSLY P.O.'d that the wool has been pulled down so far over people's eyes, and APATHY allowed to seep into our souls, and GREED and MATERIALISM come to SOAK us thus ... such that Darkness can now reach out its finger and easily, instantly tap YOUR blind fervor of Nationalism, and MY angry `spirit' of Rebelliousness???

Yeah, Q. You might say that.

I didn't go to war in '68, or '69, because I WANTED to kill people overseas, and sure, circumstances then would have been quite different, both for our Nation (and planet) - AND for the individual you'd have actually met, had you met "me."

But buddy, I got my proverbial ASS shot off over there. And after a fashion, I did that for YOU. Get out from behind that nose of yours next time you feel like giving me a bit of finger, and remember - you ain't the ONLY SOLDIER 'round here. I wouldn't last TWO SECONDS in today's Army. That may not be ... but in '68 or '69 I was qualified enough to get shipped overseas and KILL people so your Dad could keep puttin you in diapers.

Do you like it when people come off that way?

Uh huh. But this time, it's Gospel.

Sure it's easy, when you're not in the other man's shoes. But when THAT MAN - george dubya bush - won't even fill his own shoes, show up to DO HIS own duty ... or face the music, and ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY for his own misdeeds (which later only become so much "youthful INDISCRETION" if we do ever prove his transgressions) ... it makes it AWFUL hard to believe this HORSE-**** about "GOD told me yadda yadda, go bomb and kill yadda."

Bush may be your president, Q, because YOU might have voted for him. But in a nation where NUMBERS don't do it, and where the ELECTORAL VOTE has ceased to decide the winner, and where the HIGHEST COURT OF THE LAND has also failed to do its job ... president in no different than DICTATOR.

MOB RULES
MIGHT MAKES RIGHT

And thus is the `law' of Satan.

Happy worshipping ...

Men like JFK, Dr. MLK, Jr. and M. Gandhi are sniped and assassinated ... while chimps and imps like dubya and nixon are allowed to work their black magic on the masses. These WAR PIGS do help keep the balance, I will grant you that - and keep our society from progressing too far, too quickly. For that, should I praise evil, and worship the Lord of Entropy, the God of Bass-ackwards-ness?

Trouble with you is the trouble with me,

Got two good eyes but WE still don't see

-- (`Casey Jones,' The Grateful Dead)

Give me a break, will ya? Your hands aren't dirty or bloody...

yes, I stand by my president, even now. And I'll go back if called, no questions asked, because I know what is at stake.

China Cat Sunflower · 08-22-2007, 02:09 AM

Dream on. The credibility of the right and their evangelical minions has been destroyed. And it will have taken only eight years of this pathetic empty suit moron preznit to do it. Praise the Lord!

Chris

AndrewX · 08-22-2007, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Give me a break, will ya? Your hands aren't dirty or bloody...

yes, I stand by my president, even now. And I'll go back if called, no questions asked, because I know what is at stake.

Well see, if it was about Democracy, and the Principles upon which America was founded ... the Constitution and all that, I'd keep my mouth shut.

You see, you cannot argue, that just because we have a Democracy, patterned after the Ideals of Plato and the Greeks, ANY and every American President elected is a GOOD President!

What utter nonsense! This isn't logical at all, nor is it a matter of mere opinion. Certainly we all have our preferences, and the reasons we feel the way we do, but I guess I've always just been impressed by the idea that THOSE WHO HAVE THE QUALIFICATIONS - should GET the job!!!

And so ... Bush has none of the qualifications, he didn't win the vote, and I'd say there's about five good reasons that any FIRST grader could name why THIS MAN SHOULD NOT EVER, EVER, EVER be President!!!

Umm, this man is not be qualified to deliver my MAIL. But, like all the other quacks on my local tv channels, give him a microphone and a podium, and a group of gullible ijits, and let him preach about how Gawd SPOKE to him ... and with or without the War in Iraq, he'll be just as richy richy rich.

Oh well.

China Cat Sunflower · 08-22-2007, 02:42 AM

Here you go. This is from a member of a right wing think tank called Center for Security Policy whose board includes talk show hosts Laura Ingraham and Monica Crowley, Center for Security Policy president Frank Gaffney Jr., and former CIA director R. James Woolsey. The author is Phillip Atkinson, also a member.

Quote:

President George W. Bush is the 43rd President of the United States. He was sworn in for a second term on January 20, 2005 after being chosen by the majority of citizens in America to be president.

Yet in 2007 he is generally despised, with many citizens of Western civilization expressing contempt for his person and his policies, sentiments which now abound on the Internet. This rage at President Bush is an inevitable result of the system of government demanded by the people, which is Democracy.

The inadequacy of Democracy, rule by the majority, is undeniable -- for it demands adopting ideas because they are popular, rather than because they are wise. This means that any man chosen to act as an agent of the people is placed in an invidious position: if he commits folly because it is popular, then he will be held responsible for the inevitable result. If he refuses to commit folly, then he will be detested by most citizens because he is frustrating their demands.

When faced with the possible threat that the Iraqis might be amassing terrible weapons that could be used to slay millions of citizens of Western Civilization, President Bush took the only action prudence demanded and the electorate allowed: he conquered Iraq with an army.

This dangerous and expensive act did destroy the Iraqi regime, but left an American army without any clear purpose in a hostile country and subject to attack. If the Army merely returns to its home, then the threat it ended would simply return.

The wisest course would have been for President Bush to use his nuclear weapons to slaughter Iraqis until they complied with his demands, or until they were all dead. Then there would be little risk or expense and no American army would be left exposed. But if he did this, his cowardly electorate would have instantly ended his term of office, if not his freedom or his life.

The simple truth that modern weapons now mean a nation must practice genocide or commit suicide. Israel provides the perfect example. If the Israelis do not raze Iran, the Iranians will fulfill their boast and wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Yet Israel is not popular, and so is denied permission to defend itself. In the same vein, President Bush cannot do what is necessary for the survival of Americans. He cannot use the nation's powerful weapons. All he can do is try and discover a result that will be popular with Americans.

As there appears to be no sensible result of the invasion of Iraq that will be popular with his countrymen other than retreat, President Bush is reviled; he has become another victim of Democracy.

By elevating popular fancy over truth, Democracy is clearly an enemy of not just truth, but duty and justice, which makes it the worst form of government. President Bush must overcome not just the situation in Iraq, but democratic government.

However, President Bush has a valuable historical example that he could choose to follow.

When the ancient Roman general Julius Caesar was struggling to conquer ancient Gaul, he not only had to defeat the Gauls, but he also had to defeat his political enemies in Rome who would destroy him the moment his tenure as consul (president) ended.

Caesar pacified Gaul by mass slaughter; he then used his successful army to crush all political opposition at home and establish himself as permanent ruler of ancient Rome. This brilliant action not only ended the personal threat to Caesar, but ended the civil chaos that was threatening anarchy in ancient Rome – thus marking the start of the ancient Roman Empire that gave peace and prosperity to the known world.

If President Bush copied Julius Caesar by ordering his army to empty Iraq of Arabs and repopulate the country with Americans, he would achieve immediate results: popularity with his military; enrichment of America by converting an Arabian Iraq into an American Iraq (therefore turning it from a liability to an asset); and boost American prestige while terrifying American enemies.

He could then follow Caesar's example and use his newfound popularity with the military to wield military power to become the first permanent president of America, and end the civil chaos caused by the continually squabbling Congress and the out-of-control Supreme Court.

President Bush can fail in his duty to himself, his country, and his God, by becoming “ex-president” Bush or he can become "President-for-Life" Bush: the conqueror of Iraq, who brings sense to the Congress and sanity to the Supreme Court. Then who would be able to stop Bush from emulating Augustus Caesar and becoming ruler of the world? For only an America united under one ruler has the power to save humanity from the threat of a new Dark Age wrought by terrorists armed with nuclear weapons.

Chris

China Cat Sunflower · 08-22-2007, 02:54 AM

Here's the link:Conservative Group Calls for Bush Dictatorship

I couldn't edit.

Quahom1 · 08-22-2007, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Dream on. The credibility of the right and their evangelical minions has been destroyed. And it will have taken only eight years of this pathetic empty suit moron preznit to do it. Praise the Lord!

Chris

Oh, and I'm supposed to grab the knees of the Liberal front and thank them for showing me the truth, the light and the way?

Please Chris. Senator Clinton had the perfect opportunity to show grace and maturity the other night when asked about the president's aid who stepped down's comments about her. Instead she threw the opportunity right out the window, and sounded like the horse's ass, all for applause.

That is the top runner that we're supposed to consider for president?

Anarchy is starting to look really appealing.

Better yet, moral law sounds even more appealing.

Quahom1 · 08-22-2007, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewX

Well see, if it was about Democracy, and the Principles upon which America was founded ... the Constitution and all that, I'd keep my mouth shut.

You see, you cannot argue, that just because we have a Democracy, patterned after the Ideals of Plato and the Greeks, ANY and every American President elected is a GOOD President!

What utter nonsense! This isn't logical at all, nor is it a matter of mere opinion. Certainly we all have our preferences, and the reasons we feel the way we do, but I guess I've always just been impressed by the idea that THOSE WHO HAVE THE QUALIFICATIONS - should GET the job!!!

And so ... Bush has none of the qualifications, he didn't win the vote, and I'd say there's about five good reasons that any FIRST grader could name why THIS MAN SHOULD NOT EVER, EVER, EVER be President!!!

Umm, this man is not be qualified to deliver my MAIL. But, like all the other quacks on my local tv channels, give him a microphone and a podium, and a group of gullible ijits, and let him preach about how Gawd SPOKE to him ... and with or without the War in Iraq, he'll be just as richy richy rich.

Oh well.

We do not have a Democracy Andrew...never did. We have a Federal Republic, based on democratic principles...

get it right will ya?

v/r

Q

flowperson · 08-22-2007, 03:09 AM

I respectfully suggest that everyone take a breather, several deep breaths, and watch this. It's something like this that is driving all of the insane decisions IMHO. By the way Fox is releasing a remake next summer.

flow....

The Day The Earth Stood Still

Quahom1 · 08-22-2007, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flowperson

I respectfully suggest that everyone take a breather, several deep breaths, and watch this. It's something like this that is driving all of the insane decisions IMHO. By the way Fox is releasing a emake next summer.

flow....

The Day The Earth Stood Still

Voice of reason in the nick of time...

thanks Flow.

v/r

Q

flowperson · 08-22-2007, 03:13 AM

No problemo Bro .

flow....

China Cat Sunflower · 08-22-2007, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Oh, and I'm supposed to grab the knees of the Liberal front and thank them for showing me the truth, the light and the way?

Please Chris. Senator Clinton had the perfect opportunity to show grace and maturity the other night when asked about the president's aid who stepped down's comments about her. Instead she threw the opportunity right out the window, and sounded like the horse's ass, all for applause.

That is the top runner that we're supposed to consider for president?

Anarchy is starting to look really appealing.

Better yet, moral law sounds even more appealing.

Hillary is proof that there's only one real Party: the Property Party- with two right wings. I'd say we had a close call with this idiot Bush, but the experience has been an eye opener. I'll continue to vote no matter what happens, and unfortunately I'm going to have to vote for yet another one Party, this time Democratic, system. That irks me because I think that divided government is best. But it's all about the balance of power at the Supreme Court I'm afraid.

Chris