Can a Christian kill?

kenod · 08-18-2006, 10:13 AM

Are there times when a Christian can kill with the approval of God?

We know that men were commanded to kill in the OT ... this is something of a stumbling block to some, especially as they were told to kill men, women and children.

God is infinite and therefore He knows the beginning to the end, so only He can pass such a judgment. In the time of Noah, He used water; in the time of Sodom, He used fire; and in the time of Jericho, He used men. In each case, the believers were saved. Whether an infant or an adult, God knows if an individual will accept the Truth or not.

Many Christians have been troubled by the dropping of the atomic bombs on Japan at the close of WW2. The justification given was the saving of lives, not just ending the war. Is that a sufficient cause to kill "innocents"?

Are there situations in our private lives when we could justifiably kill someone? If our family was physically attacked, I think most of us would kill the attacker if we believed that was the only way to protect our family.

The commandment "thou shalt not kill" is carried over into the NT, and is generally understood to refer to murder.

How should a Christian view the recent war between Israel and Lebanon? Many Christians believe that Israel is the rightful Jewish homeland, given to them by God. Is that sufficient justification for the extent of the bombing and destruction in the recent conflict?

Pookarian · 08-18-2006, 10:33 AM

All the time, apparently. Same for the other religions.

It seems that any amount of bloodshed can be justified by tacking a deity on to it.

Personally, killing is wrong. Always.

kenod · 08-18-2006, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pookarian

All the time, apparently. Same for the other religions.

It seems that any amount of bloodshed can be justified by tacking a deity on to it.

Personally, killing is wrong. Always.

Are you saying that absolutely, under no circumstances whatsoever, would you condone killing?

What if you had been a passenger on United flight 93?

Pookarian · 08-18-2006, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenod

Are you saying that absolutely, under no circumstances whatsoever, would you condone killing?

That's what I'm a saying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenod

What if you had been a passenger on United flight 93?

Interesting hypotheical question. I would still go for active restraint over killing.

wil · 08-18-2006, 01:57 PM

This is where our various denominations come into discussion. There are pacifist Christians, but in any given war you'll find many more in uniform with weapons.

Does anyone remember when Cassius Clay when pacifist and became the Muslim Mohamed Ali? Islam was one of the havens for those who wanted to avoid the war in the '60's....quite interesting considering today's perspectives.

Often the line is drawn between murder and killing. Both sides find references to prove their points very succinctly.

It is a personal choice, and I honor yours.

One thing I have discovered is when we are on a spiritual path, and set down fixed parameters often life brings us situations to test our understandings.

kenod · 08-18-2006, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pookarian

That's what I'm a saying.

Suicide bomber with explosives attached to his chest in a crowded restaurant. Security guard with a gun. Should he shoot to kill?

kenod · 08-18-2006, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

One thing I have discovered is when we are on a spiritual path, and set down fixed parameters often life brings us situations to test our understandings.

Ain't that the truth!

I wonder if we could include killing by neglect or indifference. Six million children die from hunger or malnutrition every year (FAO, 2005). Do we bear any personal responsibility?

.

Dor · 08-18-2006, 02:24 PM

Ecclesiastes 3 3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

So I would have to say that it is possible for a Christian to kill. Of course it is up to each individual to figure out when the times might be.

Dor · 08-18-2006, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenod

How should a Christian view the recent war between Israel and Lebanon? Many Christians believe that Israel is the rightful Jewish homeland, given to them by God. Is that sufficient justification for the extent of the bombing and destruction in the recent conflict?

Yes it was justified, not cause God gave them the land, but simply cause they needed to stop Hezbollah.

kenod · 08-18-2006, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

Yes it was justified, not cause God gave them the land, but simply cause they needed to stop Hezbollah.

I believe a country has a responsibilty to protect its citizens from attack. Many would agree that Hezbollah was/is a menace, even many in the Lebanese government. What makes us feel uncomfortable though are the civilian casualties, especially among people who did not actively support Hezbollah.

When these decisions are not in our hands is it just an academic exercise, or does our attitude really matter ... to ourselves, to others, to God?

.

BlaznFattyz · 08-18-2006, 03:54 PM

the action must be without malice and vindictiveness.

cavalier · 08-18-2006, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenod

When these decisions are not in our hands is it just an academic exercise, or does our attitude really matter ... to ourselves, to others, to God?

Our attitudes have to matter, they will help to form our actions should the decision ever be in our hands.

Can a Christian kill? I would have to say yes. I can't give examples of when it might be ok, because every individual case would have to be judged differently.
Even the example that Dor gave, that of the security guard facing a suicide bomber in a restaurant, should the guard shoot to kill? For me it would depend on a number of different things, most of which I wouldn't know until I'd been in that situation.

Quahom1 · 08-18-2006, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

the action must be without malice and vindictiveness.

That would include hitmen and sociopaths...I'm not sure Christians want to be part of that grouping...

v/r

Q

wil · 08-18-2006, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

That would include hitmen and sociopaths...I'm not sure Christians want to be part of that grouping...

Aren't you positive there are observant, tithing, respected in thier community Christians included in that grouping? Do we really think today is different than yesterday?

Quahom1 · 08-18-2006, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenod

Are there times when a Christian can kill with the approval of God?

We know that men were commanded to kill in the OT ... this is something of a stumbling block to some, especially as they were told to kill men, women and children.

God is infinite and therefore He knows the beginning to the end, so only He can pass such a judgment. In the time of Noah, He used water; in the time of Sodom, He used fire; and in the time of Jericho, He used men. In each case, the believers were saved. Whether an infant or an adult, God knows if an individual will accept the Truth or not.

Many Christians have been troubled by the dropping of the atomic bombs on Japan at the close of WW2. The justification given was the saving of lives, not just ending the war. Is that a sufficient cause to kill "innocents"?

Are there situations in our private lives when we could justifiably kill someone? If our family was physically attacked, I think most of us would kill the attacker if we believed that was the only way to protect our family.

The commandment "thou shalt not kill" is carried over into the NT, and is generally understood to refer to murder.

How should a Christian view the recent war between Israel and Lebanon? Many Christians believe that Israel is the rightful Jewish homeland, given to them by God. Is that sufficient justification for the extent of the bombing and destruction in the recent conflict?

The question is simple enough, however the matrices behind it are deep and complex.

I would start with the basics: Is a man capable of killing? Yes. Can a man be a Christian in faith? Yes. Can a man in Christian faith be capable of killing? Yes. Can a Christian man kill? Depends. It is all about the circumstances in which a man is placed, and the required weighing of values at the moment, plus the faith one has in God, plus knowing what is God's will, and what is man's desire...

I find it ironic for example that no one (I know of) questions a man who throws himself in front of a car to save a child, thus deliberately losing his own life. They call that love and sacrifice. Same man throws himself in front of a car to end his own agony, and that is called (selfish) suicide.

Same action, same results, "different attitudes", on both the actor and the witnesses part.

At a vehicle stop for traffic violation, a man shoots at both of the two officers and moves in to finish them off. The other officer returns fire to stop the offender from killing his wounded partner and himself, resulting in the death of the offender. All three are professed Christians...who was right?

A woman sees a man beating her child to death, so she takes a heavy object and bludgeons the offender, resulting in his death...she is a Christian. Was she right in protecting her child from a greater adversary in the only way she knew how?

A field medic is in a tent treating his wounded patients, when an enemy enters with a machine gun and begins to spray the patients with bullets, the medic (who has taken the hypocratic oath), armed only with a pistol, shoots the gunman, in order to protect the injured, and is a Christian...is he right? Or, should he have let the lone man with the machine gun kill all of the injured, and himself?

As I said, there is nothing easy in answering the simple question asked here...

v/r

Q