Can fear be productive when approaching God?

[Prober]

Originally Posted by Cage

At the moment I'm completely relying on God's Love (Spirit) for my personal guidence

Maybe that's all we really need.

Beautiful...

[Cage]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Being blinded by anger, perhaps? {It gives a whole new dimension of blind guides, does it not?}

Becoming child-like again....
Matt 24 (specifically verse 10) describes how taking offense leads to an increase of hate...

Thank you, cage. You ask great questions.

I went to a church meeting last night with my mother. They have Bible study every wednesday. It is held at one of the members house, and she [the house owner] opted to stay in another room during the study, and sit with her child. After my mother and I left, Mom started showing a great anger because that lady didn't attent the study. All my efforts to lead her away from that anger were in vain, as everything I said to her, she resented. She felt like she was defending god himself through her anger. (She told me so)

That ladies child was sick, I told her...maybe she felt her time was better spent with him? My mother raged on for nearly an hour until she picked up the Bible, and found a couple passeges that calmed her a bit. I have no idea what she was angry about, nor do I understand why she felt the need to ridicule that lady behind her back for not attending bible study.

She kept saying Jesus got angry, and that that lady was setting a bad example for her child. I told her I would have done the same thing if my child were sick. Still, she resented everything I said, as it was viewed as a reproach. Mom said you see me as a villian, I said no, I think you're overreacting in anger over something that shouldn't be your concern anyway.

I think sometimes, some things might be better left alone. I can't change the heart of anyone but myself, and it hurts me when my efforts are met with resentment. I imagine many Christians feel the same way when they are blown off so directly.

I told her I was sorry, and that I was wrong, but I know in my heart that she'd be better off not being so stricken with anger, and with such negative attitude. Still my own self righteous attitude came into play last night, and that is what I appologized for.

Anyway, I just wanted to tell that, as it has got me a little distraught today.


[pattimax] Thank you for your post. I'd comment more, but I'm not feeling up to it at the moment, but I most certainly appreciate and welcome your prayers, and all those who offer their thoughts. This place has been of great benefit to me, and I appreciate everyone here.


Much Love,

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Cage

I went to a church meeting last night with my mother. They have Bible study every wednesday. It is held at one of the members house, and she [the house owner] opted to stay in another room during the study, and sit with her child. After my mother and I left, Mom started showing a great anger because that lady didn't attent the study. All my efforts to lead her away from that anger were in vain, as everything I said to her, she resented. She felt like she was defending god himself through her anger. (She told me so)

That ladies child was sick, I told her...maybe she felt her time was better spent with him? My mother raged on for nearly an hour until she picked up the Bible, and found a couple passeges that calmed her a bit. I have no idea what she was angry about, nor do I understand why she felt the need to ridicule that lady behind her back for not attending bible study.

She kept saying Jesus got angry, and that that lady was setting a bad example for her child. I told her I would have done the same thing if my child were sick. Still, she resented everything I said, as it was viewed as a reproach. Mom said you see me as a villian, I said no, I think you're overreacting in anger over something that shouldn't be your concern anyway.

I think sometimes, some things might be better left alone. I can't change the heart of anyone but myself, and it hurts me when my efforts are met with resentment. I imagine many Christians feel the same way when they are blown off so directly.

I told her I was sorry, and that I was wrong, but I know in my heart that she'd be better off not being so stricken with anger, and with such negative attitude. Still my own self righteous attitude came into play last night, and that is what I appologized for.

Anyway, I just wanted to tell that, as it has got me a little distraught today.


[pattimax] Thank you for your post. I'd comment more, but I'm not feeling up to it at the moment, but I most certainly appreciate and welcome your prayers, and all those who offer their thoughts. This place has been of great benefit to me, and I appreciate everyone here.


Much Love,

Lest ye do one thing to lead these little ones astray, best hang a stone around the neck and fall into the sea...

Never apologize for inappropriate behavior by someone else. Your mother has issues, that have not even come close to being addressed. And that is not your call either.

You called a spade a spade. Mom used or tried to use her authority over you, and it "partially" worked.

Your first response was correct. Should have stuck with it...

You are learning fast (for some reason or other).

Christ covers all ills (including ill will).

Mom is human, just like you and me and the rest of us, keep that in mind.

v/r

Joshua

[Cage]

Thank you Joshua, but I go back to where Jesus talked about correcting others whilst having a beam in your own eye. I'm human, too, and my shortcomings are no less severe than hers. I was worried, and I think wrong, for coming off selfrighteous when I'm far from being perfect myself, ya know?

I appologized for that, but I stood by what I said.


Love,

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Cage

Thank you Joshua, but I go back to where Jesus talked about correcting others whilst having a beam in your own eye. I'm human, too, and my shortcomings are no less severe than hers. I was worried, and I think wrong, for coming off selfrighteous when I'm far from being perfect myself, ya know?

I appologized for that, but I stood by what I said.


Love,

Second guessing will kill the righteous thought in seconds. Moms are really good at recalling every indiscretion a child has made in life. The fact that she called them up to you, should tell you she was on the defensive, becuase you were stating the truth of things. (you weren't nailing her to the wall).

If you love your Mom, you will bear witness before her...and she will love you more for your courage and strength.

I know it sounds crazy. But we do look to those who love us, to tell us what we do not want to hear about ourselves. We will lash out, we will deny, we will fight to avoid, but in the end we want to know that we are loved despite our shortcomimgs.

Then to be picked up and dusted off and set square of shoulder...by those who love us, is...precious.

v/r

Joshua

[Cage]

I need to be mindful of what spirit I'm in when I try to witness. I was fully aware of her own, but if I was in the right Spirit, and perhaps more tactful, and wise, I would have been more effective.

I'll continue to bear witness, but I will also keep my toungue in check. My words last night caused her to think I viewed her as a villian. The truth hurts sometimes, but if I can lesson that hurt, and still be effective, then that is what I'll pursue. I had compassion for the one who was being ridiculed, but I never considered my own mothers feelings.

Thanks, Joshua...I'll stick with it, but I'll try to do it with compassion for all involved.


Much Love,

[Faithfulservant]

Sounds like a spiritual attack to me. Cage havent you noticed the more you draw closer to Christ the more things happen that could cause you to stumble?? Even using people that love Jesus? This whole bible study thing and your moms self righteousness sounds like she is putting a law on you both... we have liberty through Christ ... we attend bible studies because we WANT to learn about our savior not because He WANTS us too.

*hugs*

[Prober]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Sounds like a spiritual attack to me. Cage havent you noticed the more you draw closer to Christ the more things happen that could cause you to stumble?? Even using people that love Jesus?
*hugs*

Boy that sure is true!


I like to say "When you're playing in God's A league, you're playing against the devil's A league".

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Sounds like a spiritual attack to me. Cage havent you noticed the more you draw closer to Christ the more things happen that could cause you to stumble?? Even using people that love Jesus? This whole bible study thing and your moms self righteousness sounds like she is putting a law on you both... we have liberty through Christ ... we attend bible studies because we WANT to learn about our savior not because He WANTS us too.

*hugs*

Thank you faithfulservant,

If I had the words placed in bold, I think it could have calmed the fire a bit. Only, we were discussing Exodus the other night, and not directly talking about Christ.

Mom is a really beautiful person, but she has some issues...like we all do. One of which is that she doesn't like to admit her faults to others, but I am certain she realizes them in private, and works to improve them.

[prober] I don't know about the whole "A league" thing, but I'd say at any level the enemy puts up players able to give a good fight, lol.


Much Love,

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by Cage

Thank you faithfulservant,

If I had the words placed in bold, I think it could have calmed the fire a bit. Only, we were discussing Exodus the other night, and not directly talking about Christ.

Mom is a really beautiful person, but she has some issues...like we all do. One of which is that she doesn't like to admit her faults to others, but I am certain she realizes them in private, and works to improve them.

[prober] I don't know about the whole "A league" thing, but I'd say at any level the enemy puts up players able to give a good fight, lol.


Much Love,

Exodus has many types of Christ, particularly in regards to the Passover Lamb. Egypt was a type of the world, with all its excesses and worldly reilgion. The ten plagues upon Egypt culminated to the last plague in which all first-born children were to die during the night....unless they spread the blood of an umblemished lamb over the doorposts. The Israelites did so, the Egyptians scoffed in unbelief. In the morning, much wailing could be heard in the homes of those who did not obey the Word of the Lord, including Pharoah, who lost his first-born son. It was the final plague before Pharoah let the people go.

John the Baptist, when he saw Jesus approaching to get baptized, said, "...Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." - John 1:29

Jesus told the Pharisees:

"Search the scriptures;[OT] for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." - John 5:39-40 [brackets mine]

And a little further He said in vs 46-47:

"For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?"

The OT points to Christ, the Word of the Living God.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Cage

I remember having a great fear of God when younger. Well, not God himself, but a fear of hell instead. I feared doing the wrong things, and not pleasing him. I stumbled greatly during those days, and still do at times when I fear not being on the right path, or not believing in the right things.

Can this be productive? I mean, can fear lead a person to true respect, and addoration? It seems nowdays I belive in God and Love him, but I get confused when it comes to Jesus. Was he God, and if he was, why won't I believe it? (Fear of being wrong, I think)

It would seem to me that the Spirit is what counts, and beliving in God, and honoring him the best you can, wether you view him in a physical form, or not. I think he [Jesus] was certainly the son of God, and that he came for God, and in his Spirit. I fear being wrong about not viewing and worshiping Jesus as God, though. I can't change what I'm able to believe, and not believe, and this causes me fear, which is quite miserable at times.

Then I'll go back to Love, and I'll feel accepted, and joyous again, but my mind always seems to go back to fearing I'm wrong about Jesus. It's a brutal cycle of fear that seems to have no end./shrug

Can this be productive at all? God's not telling me Jesus is God, he's not telling me I have to believe he was, but he 'seems' to be showing me through my inward state that Love, and Spirit, and condition of heart is what matters. Why can't I keep these more fruitful things, and forego my mental fear of being wrong? (I don't expect anyone to answer this one)

Anyway, I think fear cripples the heart, and becomes a great stumbling block for many...


Love,

I think fear no matter what is a bad thing to have and a weakness... If you fear something, you're going to mess up. You'll freeze, hesitate, choose the wrong answer, dodge the wrong way, lack honesty and so on and so forth... And as we are mere humans anyway we mess up enough as it is..... If your god was real and I knew he was real I wouldn't fear him. I never offer anything or one my fear. Just my way of life..

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Dondi

Exodus has many types of Christ, particularly in regards to the Passover Lamb. Egypt was a type of the world, with all its excesses and worldly reilgion. The ten plagues upon Egypt culminated to the last plague in which all first-born children were to die during the night....unless they spread the blood of an umblemished lamb over the doorposts. The Israelites did so, the Egyptians scoffed in unbelief. In the morning, much wailing could be heard in the homes of those who did not obey the Word of the Lord, including Pharoah, who lost his first-born son. It was the final plague before Pharoah let the people go.

John the Baptist, when he saw Jesus approaching to get baptized, said, "...Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." - John 1:29

Jesus told the Pharisees:

"Search the scriptures;[OT] for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." - John 5:39-40 [brackets mine]

And a little further He said in vs 46-47:

"For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?"

The OT points to Christ, the Word of the Living God.

Thanks, Dondi...I realize this, which is why I said directly, instead of at all. The studies I sometimes go to are more like a gathering where we all participate in reading, and discussing the scripture. It's a great thing, and a blessing to me, and we have been doing it since I was a small child. Although, I can't say that I am a frequent flyer, lol!

[17th Angel] I think I agree with you here, but some fear breeds wisdom, or rather a common type sense, lol! Like, we know not to touch fire, step on a nail in a board, etc...

I think some types of fear can be useful, but I don't know how the fear of God can be produtive if we approach him in this manner. Now, if I were to be put in a situation where I had to face him, I'd probably be terrified, lol! Who can stand before God, and not tremble a bit?


Much Love,
.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by Dondi

"Search the scriptures;[OT] for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." - John 5:39-40 [brackets mine]

And a little further He said in vs 46-47:

"For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?"

The OT points to Christ, the Word of the Living God.

...And after Moses died, God appointed Joshua to succeed him.

Have I not commanded you? Be strong and of good courage; do not be afraid, nor be dismayed, for the LORD your God is with you wherever you go.”
Joshua 1:9

Let this scripture be your assurance.
Your mom is who she is; show her who you are and what she can be. The turmoil that you are experiencing will be well worth it in the end. Whatever is happening in your life, you don’t want to neglect the one thing you truly need. His love.

Love and prayers, pattimax
(your still on my list)

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

I think fear no matter what is a bad thing to have and a weakness... If you fear something, you're going to mess up. You'll freeze, hesitate, choose the wrong answer, dodge the wrong way, lack honesty and so on and so forth... And as we are mere humans anyway we mess up enough as it is..... If your god was real and I knew he was real I wouldn't fear him. I never offer anything or one my fear. Just my way of life..

Who would you rather have fighting next to you in a foxhole under heavy fire? One who is fearless, or one who is very afraid, yet still covers your ass, because it is the right and noble thing to do, and because he/she puts you first?

To me that is a no brainer. I'll take the scardy cat any day...because there is the real courage and intelligence to hopefully keep us both alive and safe.

I may get stupid, he won't.

As far as me personally, I am afraid of God. A bullet might end my life, but God can wipe my existence from the books, as if I never was. So, in your fearless endeavors, remember there are those who are with you that are very afraid, yet try to cover you, because you matter, and it's their job...their duty...

v/r

Joshua

[Dondi]

I took up reading Proverbs through recently for my nightly reading, reading a chapter number for the corresponding day. Anyway, I came across this verse on fear;

"The fear of the LORD tendeth to life: and he that hath it shall abide satisfied; he shall not be visited with evil." - Proverbs 19:23

Then in the morning, I've been reading through Deuteronomy and found this verse:

"Specially the day that thou stoodest before the LORD thy God in Horeb, when the LORD said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children." - Deuteronomy 4:10

I was struck with the thought of what this fear really is. It really is God saying to us to choose. We will either fear God or fear Man. For in Deuteronomy 3:21-22:

"And I commanded Joshua at that time, saying, Thine eyes have seen all that the LORD your God hath done unto these two kings: so shall the LORD do unto all the kingdoms whither thou passest.
Ye shall not fear them: for the LORD your God he shall fight for you."

Recall that the book of Deuteromony was written for the next generation of the children of Israel because their parents believed the ten spies who feared the giants in the Promised land, rather than taking heed to Joshua and Caleb who believed God to deliver them into Israel's hands. Hence Israel was force to wander the wilderness until that generation died out and now a new generation is being told to conquer the land to be led by Joshua.

So fearing the Lord is really trusting the Lord, giving heed to His plans for us, though we are so used to seeing with our eyes and not the eyes of faith.

To fear God is to obey God, for that demonstrates our faith in God in action. Are we going to fear God, that is regard to God, trusting Him for our good. Or are we going to fear our situation?

The verse in Proverbs says that the fear of the Lord tendeth to life. And that he who has it will be satisfied. It is not a cowering fear toward God, though He is certainly Omnipotent to destroy us all, yet His Loving Nature is such that He has mercy for us. Rather is a protective fear that is for our well being. His commandments are meant for our good. They reflect His Holy Nature.

"Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, for ever." - Deuteronomy 4:40

You see what He is sayiing here? By obeying Gods commandments we will "Live Long and Prosper!" \V/