Can Muslims be friends with Jews and Christians? - Page 2

Faithfulservant · 12-29-2006, 01:06 AM

I have not read it all but a fair amount.

Then how can you understand what I mean...

I think that your implied claim that anyone who has read The Bible would immediately accept that the modern State of Israel should be supported is patronising and false.

No I was certainly not implying that.. satan can read the bible and he would never support Israel.

There are many Christians who active support the Palestinian cause and not only Palestinian Christians.

I personally dont know any true Christians that support the palestinians over Israel.. There are many who claim the name Christian and are not so... but Im sure you know this.

We only have salvation from God, not Israel nor any other country

Yes of course.. but had there not been the original Olive tree (Israel).. there would be no grafting in of the wild branches which are the gentiles. i will post the scripture for you.

Romans 11:16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."

Frankly I find your reasoning bizarre and your interpretation of scripture very narrow. The last days have been forcaste in every generations as an immediate occurance and they were mistaken.

Im not surprised you and I are of different beliefs.

Perhaps you could detail the disasters which have befallen the German People as a result of their murder of many of the 'Chosen people'.

Considering Hitler committed suicide.. his nazi officers have been sentenced to death or are hiding... there is no longer a nazi regime period.. If you do not think that Germany is horrified at what they did to the jews then you just need to do some research..

Prober · 12-29-2006, 03:14 PM

Can't we just be Earthlings.

There are no borders.

There are no countries - just man-made figments of our imagination existing only in the minds of those who subscribe to their myth.

We are all God's children.

InLove · 12-29-2006, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Re: Can Muslims be friends with Jews and Christians?

In my personal experience, YES!

But I realize, sadly, that it isn't always that way. So much for my starry-eyed optimism and sincere desire and actual spirit and eye witness. Fluffy stuff, I guess.

InPeace,
InLove

Prober · 12-29-2006, 03:46 PM

If reality is what you make of it, why not choose all the good stuff?

I intend that the world is a beautiful place!

I intend that all people love each other!

I intend that we are all brothers and sisters!

I'm not an idealist, I'm a realist. This is reality!

Whatever you plan on making your world, that is what it will be.

("...you may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one...")

Cage · 12-29-2006, 04:13 PM

"I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one"

Good stuff!

Friend · 12-30-2006, 01:07 PM

Let us see how Mohammad peace upon hem give us an great example to deal with other non muslims

The Prophet had Jewish neighbor. Everyday the neighbor would throw his garbage at the Prophet’s door! Then, one day, the garbage stopped appearing.
The Prophet wondered why and asked people about what had happened to his neighbor. He was told that the neighbor was sick, in bed.
So, the Prophet went and visited his Jewish neighbor to make sure he’s OK and to wish him well.

Consider as example the following quotations

"But those firm in knowledge among them (People of the Book) and the believers believe in what has been revealed before you. And the establishers of prayer (especially) and the givers of poor-due (zakah) and the believers in God and the Last Day—those We will give a great reward. Indeed We have revealed to you (O Muhammad), as We revealed to Noah and the prophets after him. And We revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Issac, Jacob, the Descendence, Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the book (of Psalms)." Qur’an, 4:162-163.

"And most surely of the followers of the Book, there are those who believe in Allah, and (in) that which has been revealed to you, and (in) that which has been revealed to them, bowing in humility to Allah; they will not sell the signs of Allah for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord; surely Allah is quick in account." Qur’an, 3:199.

The Prophet (p) also said:

"Let it be known, if any one (Muslim) commits injustice, insults, aggravates, mistreats or abuses a person of the People of the Book (protected, by the state or an agreement), he will have to answer me (for his immoral action) on the Day of Judgment." Abi Yousef, Khiraj, see Izzeddin Blaque, Minhaj Alsaliheen, Page 106.

InLove · 12-30-2006, 02:37 PM

Hi Friend--

Thank you for that. I thought of that passage, as well.

InPeace,
InLove

Abubakar · 12-31-2006, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

I have not read it all but a fair amount.

Then how can you understand what I mean...

I think that your implied claim that anyone who has read The Bible would immediately accept that the modern State of Israel should be supported is patronising and false.

No I was certainly not implying that.. satan can read the bible and he would never support Israel.

You appear to be argueing that you are right because you are right.

I am sorry that you are unable to produce no arguement or reasoning to support your opinion.

Quote:

There are many Christians who active support the Palestinian cause and not only Palestinian Christians.

I personally dont know any true Christians that support the palestinians over Israel.. There are many who claim the name Christian and are not so... but Im sure you know this.

How do you decide who is a true Christian?

And on what authority do you judge?

Abubakar · 12-31-2006, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

We only have salvation from God, not Israel nor any other country

Yes of course.. but had there not been the original Olive tree (Israel).. there would be no grafting in of the wild branches which are the gentiles. i will post the scripture for you.

Romans 11:16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."

Are you argueing that without Israel God would be unable to offer salvation to mankind?

If so what about those who lived inbetween the disintegration of Israel {prior to the birth of Jesus (pbuh)} and the new state of Israel being formed?

If you are not argueing this then what are you presenting?

Abubakar · 12-31-2006, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Perhaps you could detail the disasters which have befallen the German People as a result of their murder of many of the 'Chosen people'.

Considering Hitler committed suicide.. his nazi officers have been sentenced to death or are hiding... there is no longer a nazi regime period.. If you do not think that Germany is horrified at what they did to the jews then you just need to do some research..

Yes, Hitler commited suicide and a very very few Nazis were sentenced to death (many changed identities and lived elsewhere, but is that really punishment for mass murder?).

Germany as a country has hardly suffered in the way you claim will befall any Country who go against the Jews.

I suggest that you do some research and knock off the totally unjustified patronising tone.

InLove · 12-31-2006, 12:19 PM

Hello, Abubakar--

I apologize for not greeting you as well as I could. It is just that there is no time right now for me to look up the proper Islamic greeting.

Will you accept and honor a simple "Hello"?

I am one of those people who thinks it is possible for all of us to get along, especially when we really need to.

Are you one of those people?

There are people all over this world who cannot and maybe never will be willing to see the points you are wanting to make.

It happens all over the world, from one generation to another; from place to place.

Faithfulservant isn't bad. She does not want to hurt you. She just believes what she believes. Do you know anything about her beliefs? Or do you want to tell your own?

Both are your beliefs.

I find myself wondering what the problem is.

InPeace,
InLove

Abubakar · 12-31-2006, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InLove

Hello, Abubakar--

I apologize for not greeting you as well as I could. It is just that there is no time right now for me to look up the proper Islamic greeting.

Will you accept and honor a simple "Hello"?

I am one of those people who thinks it is possible for all of us to get along, especially when we really need to.

Are you one of those people?

There are people all over this world who cannot and maybe never will be willing to see the points you are wanting to make.

It happens all over the world, from one generation to another; from place to place.

Faithfulservant isn't bad. She does not want to hurt you. She just believes what she believes. Do you know anything about her beliefs? Or do you want to tell your own?

Both are your beliefs.

I find myself wondering what the problem is.

InPeace,
InLove

Asalam Aleykum InLove

Hello is fine, the warmth of the greeting is more important the the phrasiology!

I am here because I believe that we (or nearly all of us) can get along.

I have re-read my posts and accept that I have probably been a little harsh or sharp towards Faithfulservant. I fully accept that she can and does believe what she believes. I do not understand why she believes that she has to support the State of Israel as part of her Christian beliefs, I don't see any Christian doctrine justifies this stance.

Thanks for your post.

Peace

Zaakir · 12-31-2006, 10:05 PM

the problem was that faithful servant mocked abubakar, saying have you read teh bible, i would like to ask her if she has read it fully? i dont remember raeding that israel is responsible for making you a christian or saving you. the religion prescribed by God would and could never be dependant on a country existing.id say more thanks should be owede to the romans for you being saved as tehy were the ones who adopted christianity, and brought it across europe to us. i know youre saying this because christianity stemed from judaism, which was practised in israel, i wouldnt neccessarily praise them for making you christian, because if tehy had their way they'd have killed jesus asap, making him unable to preach what you beleive, so it wasnt the jews that saved you....you will beleive its jesus, or as a christian i think you would anyway...whereas i, dont beleive a human being can save me from my sins...but lets not go into that for now

Abubakar · 12-31-2006, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

the problem was that faithful servant mocked abubakar, saying have you read teh bible, i would like to ask her if she has read it fully? i dont remember raeding that israel is responsible for making you a christian or saving you. the religion prescribed by God would and could never be dependant on a country existing.id say more thanks should be owede to the romans for you being saved as tehy were the ones who adopted christianity, and brought it across europe to us. i know youre saying this because christianity stemed from judaism, which was practised in israel, i wouldnt neccessarily praise them for making you christian, because if tehy had their way they'd have killed jesus asap, making him unable to preach what you beleive, so it wasnt the jews that saved you....you will beleive its jesus, or as a christian i think you would anyway...whereas i, dont beleive a human being can save me from my sins...but lets not go into that for now

Assallaam aleykum Brother

A belated Eid Mubarrack and my best wishes to you and your family.

I agree that Faithful servant response to me seems mainly mockery and attempted put downs. I put this down to that maybe she has not thought through what she believes but is repeating someone elses beliefs she has adopted as her own.

I can see no rationale for her support for Israel as a religious obligation, but maybe she can justify it.

I believe that if she examines her present belief that she will see that she is limiting God, something that is not part of the Christian nor Muslim (nor Jewish) belief.

We must remember that whilst in Islam are delighted and encouraging to anyone who reads Al Qu'ran or shows an interest in our Religion, not everyone feels like that and believe that Satan can use their Holy Book against them. Of course, I do know plenty of Christians who are pleased with my knowledge of The Bible and we are able to share the many ideas that are common to our different Religions.

Peace

Zaakir · 12-31-2006, 10:59 PM

well said,if she can find something then fair enough, but when i was christian i never had that feeling or interpretation from the bible or anything, i think its good for us to have knowledge of other faiths, im going to study islam 1st, as onyl been muslim for 9 and half months, when i know more i want to study judaism for some reson and iA i want to look into the bible in more depth.i see your a revert too.inshaAllah He will incraese your knowldge also with time and keep us all learing in islam and succeeding with deen