Can Muslims be friends with Jews and Christians?

[Abubakar]

Originally Posted by Zaakir

well said,if she can find something then fair enough, but when i was christian i never had that feeling or interpretation from the bible or anything, i think its good for us to have knowledge of other faiths, im going to study islam 1st, as onyl been muslim for 9 and half months, when i know more i want to study judaism for some reson and iA i want to look into the bible in more depth.i see your a revert too.inshaAllah He will incraese your knowldge also with time and keep us all learing in islam and succeeding with deen

Asallaam aleykum Brother,

I am happy to hear of your convertion/revertion, may allah blessyou on your journey as a Muslim. It is true I am also a revert (although a year or two longer than yourself!) and we are spoiled by those who were born and raised in Muslim families. If you ever have any questions that you think I can help you with or wish to discuss with me, please feel free to pm me. There is a life time of learning ahead of us!

I come from a Christian family and am not familiar with anything in The Bible that supports Faithfulservants claims.

Peace

[InLove]

Hi--me again.

I just wanted to stop in because I feel I owe an apology to both Abubaker and Faithfulservant. I interrupted your conversation and I shouldn't have. I mean, how are we ever going to understand one another if we don't try and communicate?

Sometimes--and yesterday was one of those days--things in this world just don't make much sense to me. And I get kind of "down" when I want to see people come together, and it doesn't really happen. And then I open my mouth (or keyboard, in this case) when I shouldn't.

So, anyway--I hope I didn't offend too much, and again--I apologize for comments I feel may have been a little out of line.

InPeace,
InLove

[Faithfulservant]

You appear to be argueing that you are right because you are right.

Im not arguing with anyone.. This isnt an issue to argue..

I am sorry that you are unable to produce no arguement or reasoning to support your opinion.

The same goes for you on your beliefs Im thinking

How do you decide who is a true Christian?

By their fruits.. like the bible tells me to.

And on what authority do you judge?

Im identifying fruit like the bible tells me to.

[Faithfulservant]

[quote=Abubakar;86305]Are you argueing that without Israel God would be unable to offer salvation to mankind?

unable is not the word.. more like unwilling. He chose a people to fulfill his plan that people was Israel.. by those same peoples our savior was able to save everyone... Its the gospel of Jesus Christ.. Im not speaking of new things its all there.

If so what about those who lived inbetween the disintegration of Israel {prior to the birth of Jesus (pbuh)} and the new state of Israel being formed?

Did you read Romans chapter 11? Read it again maybe? I dont think I can interpret it better than the bible states it.


If you are not argueing this then what are you presenting

You misunderstand me.. Im not arguing with anyone..

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by Abubakar

Yes, Hitler commited suicide and a very very few Nazis were sentenced to death (many changed identities and lived elsewhere, but is that really punishment for mass murder?).

Germany as a country has hardly suffered in the way you claim will befall any Country who go against the Jews.

I suggest that you do some research and knock off the totally unjustified patronising tone.

Yes I know about 5 thousand were tried during the nuremburg trials... they were following orders.. alot like people strapping bombs on their and walking into a crowded restaurant. The bible tells us that God appoints this worlds leaders and the people are supposed to obey the laws of the land... Im just happy Hitlers dead.. Just like Im happy Sadaam is now dead. They were both evil people.

Theres no need to be hostile.. btw. I have done research and the bible has yet to cause me to disbelieve it.

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by Zaakir

the problem was that faithful servant mocked abubakar, saying have you read teh bible, i would like to ask her if she has read it fully? i dont remember raeding that israel is responsible for making you a christian or saving you. the religion prescribed by God would and could never be dependant on a country existing.id say more thanks should be owede to the romans for you being saved as tehy were the ones who adopted christianity, and brought it across europe to us. i know youre saying this because christianity stemed from judaism, which was practised in israel, i wouldnt neccessarily praise them for making you christian, because if tehy had their way they'd have killed jesus asap, making him unable to preach what you beleive, so it wasnt the jews that saved you....you will beleive its jesus, or as a christian i think you would anyway...whereas i, dont beleive a human being can save me from my sins...but lets not go into that for now

lol Jesus is GOD of course He saves us. Gentiles are adopted into the geneology of Abraham by faith.. We are spiritually Jewish.. If God did not save the Jews in the Old Testament the gentiles would not be saved in the New Testant till now.. why is this such a problem?? This is why we cant see eye to eye.. The bible tells Christians to not fellowship with unbelievers because of this very issue.. it becomes an ugly mess and does not edify God or the body of Christ..

Israel does not know they killed their messiah.. according to the bible they will.. they do not believe that Jesus was their messiah because they dont see that Jesus was their High Priest and King.. Want to know what is so awesome to me..? that in spite of their treatment of Jesus in rejecting Him... He is still faithful.. If He can forgive them He can certainly forgive anyone.. Thats how awesome He is.

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by Abubakar

I come from a Christian family and am not familiar with anything in The Bible that supports Faithfulservants claims.

Peace

[Abubakar]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

You appear to be argueing that you are right because you are right.

Im not arguing with anyone.. This isnt an issue to argue..

I am sorry that you are unable to produce no arguement or reasoning to support your opinion.

The same goes for you on your beliefs Im thinking

How do you decide who is a true Christian?

By their fruits.. like the bible tells me to.

And on what authority do you judge?

Im identifying fruit like the bible tells me to.

Hi Faithfulservant,

I am using arguement in the way of presenting one's point of view or presenting one's arguement.

You have stated your belief but are unable to support it using any method, I have not set out my belief or reasoning on this issue yet. I have only questioned yours. Would you wish to hear my point of view on this subject.

What are these fruits you mention?

You are not very forthcoming, if you don't wish to discuss these issues with me just say so and we will leave it there.

Peace

[Abubakar]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Yes I know about 5 thousand were tried during the nuremburg trials... they were following orders.. alot like people strapping bombs on their and walking into a crowded restaurant. The bible tells us that God appoints this worlds leaders and the people are supposed to obey the laws of the land... Im just happy Hitlers dead.. Just like Im happy Sadaam is now dead. They were both evil people.

Theres no need to be hostile.. btw. I have done research and the bible has yet to cause me to disbelieve it.

Faithfulservant

I find that the trial of about 5,000 people and the execution of less than half of them as hardly proportionate to the killing of about 10,000,000 people.

Germany is a rich and prosperous nation and has been for decades. This does not seem to tie in with your claim that nations who persecute The Jewish People will suffer.

Why do you mention suicide bombers? What is the relevance?

I am sorry if my tone was hostile but perhaps we both could improve our tone.

Peace

[Zaakir]

jesus is god....where does the bible say this exactly..i could never find jesus saying i am god...or worship me for taht matter..i know he prayed to god, said god the father is better than him, he asked god for forgiveness,he also got tempted by the devil, died and went to hell right...what a god!lol...does the bible ever use the word trinity?...if jesus forgives them for not accepting him, then it doesnt matter if your not christian then right?...as your sins will be forgiven....and if he is god, then forgiving sins is what god does if he wants...of course god is fantastically amazing...beyond words...did you think of it like that? ps...you shouldnt be happy someone died...what does christianity taech? ''For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again'' matthew 7.

[dauer]

Germany is a rich and prosperous nation and has been for decades. This does not seem to tie in with your claim that nations who persecute The Jewish People will suffer.

Not that I agree with faithful servant (I don't), but I saw something a couple years ago about a complex that much of Germany has developed due to all of the education regarding the Holocaust. I was very saddened to hear about it, but I suppose when your grandparents and greatgrandparents were part of something like that, and there is much education about it, there's little one can do to escape some mental anguish. Maybe that is what is meant by the verse: "keeping mercy unto the thousandth generation, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin; and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and unto the fourth generation."

Perhaps the iniquity visited upon the children and children's children, is the guilt and grief and pain caused by the actions of direct ancestors, while the good of more ancient ancestors, the mercy for a thousand generations, are things that persevere, that we remember and make holidays for so that we might also do good. The pain fades in a few generations, if we let it, but we can still remember the heroes of old.

Dauer

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by Zaakir

jesus is god....where does the bible say this exactly..i could never find jesus saying i am god...or worship me for taht matter..i know he prayed to god, said god the father is better than him, he asked god for forgiveness,he also got tempted by the devil, died and went to hell right...what a god!lol...does the bible ever use the word trinity?...if jesus forgives them for not accepting him, then it doesnt matter if your not christian then right?...as your sins will be forgiven....and if he is god, then forgiving sins is what god does if he wants...of course god is fantastically amazing...beyond words...did you think of it like that? ps...you shouldnt be happy someone died...what does christianity taech? ''For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again'' matthew 7.

Im not getting into this here with you..not only would it derail the thread but it is also insulting to go over it again and again.. if you like you can visit one of the MANY of this topic in Christianity....

So maybe this is my answer... can muslims and christians be friends..... You think my Savior is just a prophet and not God and I think your prophet is a false prophet and just a man ruled by satan who is the king of this world...

Your belief in my faith is disrespectful and my belief in your faith is disrespectful.. we can agree on that..

Jesus is the most important thing in my life and its not negotiable... If its possible to be a shallow friend that has no spiritual depth than yes.. according to the bible I am a spiritual being housed in a body of flesh.. I am not my flesh.. so it would be possible to be fleshly friends with a non-believer.. but as I find out through living life.. I crave fellowship with believers.. I want to be with them I want to surround myself with them.. I need that closeness that familial relationship I have with them...

I have aquaintance/friends that are non-believers but I would not invite them into the personal parts of my life..

So there is my answer.

[Prober]

Originally Posted by dauer

Maybe that is what is meant by the verse: "keeping mercy unto the thousandth generation, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin; and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and unto the fourth generation."

Perhaps the iniquity visited upon the children and children's children, is the guilt and grief and pain caused by the actions of direct ancestors, while the good of more ancient ancestors, the mercy for a thousand generations, are things that persevere, that we remember and make holidays for so that we might also do good. The pain fades in a few generations, if we let it, but we can still remember the heroes of old.

Dauer

Excellent point. Let's start being merciful now...

[didymus]

If I am not mistaken, Jews, Muslims and Christians have enjoyed periods of peacefulcoexistence. Prior to the formation of Israel this was true and I believe there was a period in Spain at one point. It's a shame because while in Spain the three faiths worked together and shared ideas and beliefs that heightened everybody's spiritualality.

There is also a Jewish group out there Jews aginst Zion, or something like that whom are opposed to the formation of Israel.

[Abubakar]

Originally Posted by didymus

If I am not mistaken, Jews, Muslims and Christians have enjoyed periods of peacefulcoexistence. Prior to the formation of Israel this was true and I believe there was a period in Spain at one point. It's a shame because while in Spain the three faiths worked together and shared ideas and beliefs that heightened everybody's spiritualality.

There is also a Jewish group out there Jews aginst Zion, or something like that whom are opposed to the formation of Israel.

Asallaam Aleykum didymus,

There have been several periods of peaceful co-existance, Muslim Spain and Saladins Holy Land are two that spring to mind. There was certainly joint scholarship in Spain but more around the collection and translation of Greek, Roman and other ancient texts than comparative Religion.

I don't neccessarily think that the setting up of the modern state of Israel was a pivotal moment when we all moved from living in harmony to being at each others throats. I don't think it helped but Christian persecution of the Jews has been going on (and off) for centarys in Europe.

There is some groups of Orthodox Jews who oppose the present State of Israel and many other Orthodox Jews who whilst not actively opposing the current state don't approve of it.

These are some such (opposing groups) groups :
Neturei Karta - Orthodox Jews United Against Zionism
True Torah Jews Against Zionism
Jews Not Zionists

I have met a couple of guys from Jews against Zionism and found them to be good people, interesting but very intense. I have an Orthodox friend and we is not actively opposed but doesn't approve yet he has family there, so a perfect example of 'one Jew three opinions' (sorry for the poor plagarism, and the third rate humour)!

Peace