Can you condemn children?

[I, Brian]

Well, there I was about to splutter and pontificate. I thought to make a light-hearted post defending children - after all, my perception was probably like Seige's - before I became a parent.

Then I thought to dig in my resources of articles from other sites about children, and suddenly found a list of the quotes from the Old Testament where killing children is applauded. Never knew I even had that list. But figured if I posted the thing it would look like a personal attack, so I couldn't.

Then I stopped and realised that I'd argued elsewhere that I didn't believe in morality - yet here I was trying to circle the subject of "condemning children", without being too brutal.

I guess there is a conflict within myself, of a struggle between the spiritual and biological aspects. I know the struggle will on day be resolved - and the spiritual will win. Yet somehow I fear that - as if that triumph will destoy my sense of personal humanity.

I cannot condemn children - how can I? Condemn them for what? Yet neither can I condemn those who condemn, either.

[WHKeith]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

I cannot condemn children - how can I? Condemn them for what? Yet neither can I condemn those who condemn, either.

Mm . . . perhaps some agreed-upon definitions of terms are in order here. My understanding is that the original post was asking if God condemns--as in sending to hell--babies. I find the very idea repugnant and an insult to all persons of good will. Such an idea makes a mockery of the concept of God being at all a loving or a rational entity.

When you, Brian, condemn those who condemn, however, you're not talking about sending them to hell, are you? Not unless you have considerably more pull with the Almighty than I've been giving you credit for!

The old expression has it that we should hate the sin and love the sinner--something those Christians who engage in the wholesale condemnation of others sometimes forget. I detest that spirit so prevalent in the species that would relegate babies or the unknowing inhabitants of some remote island to an eternity of torture for what amounts to a technicality--they were born at the wrong time or the wrong place or in the wrong culture or they just didn't live long enough to learn differently . . . all factors of their life over which they had absolutely no control. If I could condemn such a spirit to the lowest and most vile of hells, I would.

But the people who espouse such a spirit? They are guilty of ignorance, sometimes of entenched and stubbornly willful ignorance, but it is merely ignorance nonetheless. I can hate the fact of that ignorance, but not the individual.

I do admit that I sometimes dispair of this species when its members refuse to learn, when they refuse to see or tolerate any point of view beyond their own.

But then I see folks like those I've met on this board, and hope is restored.

[I, Brian]

Hm, I don't believe I was condemning. Quite the reverse, I hope.

But my own use of language is always fairly loose - in the instance of my last post "judge" would have been quite interchangable with "condemn".

After all, it is not God we see condemning - but instead, people declaring God's judgements for Him. That's a general observation of some elements of belief, rather than aimed at anyone here.

[Siege]

A while ago, on a different message board in an argument with a hard-core Fundamentalist, I had this to say on the subject of condemning people. If I am told I must condemn one person to hell, torture everlasting, unspeakable agony, or what have you, then the person I condemn is me. I have absolutely no right to condemn another human being, even if I consider them the most vile creature imaginable. That is not my provenance. I also suspect that if I condemn someone else to hell, I am that much closer to going there myself, if only because doing so damages my own soul.

As for kids, eh, I've got a few issues, but I've also enjoyed the company of a great many. There are some really neat human beings out there of all ages, and the mischief-makers tend to be my favourites.

CJ
A mischief-maker if ever there was one!

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by Seige

As for kids, eh, I've got a few issues,

Same here - lovely as my own children are, they haven't let me sleep well for over a week now! Quite exhausted. Last night was almost good - until a police heliopter started buzzing just above our street at 03:30. As it was hot and the windows were open it was quite noisy and woke some of us up.

Originally Posted by Seige

If I am told I must condemn one person to hell, torture everlasting, unspeakable agony, or what have you, then the person I condemn is me.

Good point - I quite agree.

[Iacchus]

What does one do when one gets angry? Isn't this basically the form condemnation takes? Or, where it begins? And yet I think the worse thing you can do is repress it. Whereas quite often, at least initially, the anger is justified?

I guess what we need is to learn how not to let our anger control us, so we don't feel the need to go around controlling others - through it. Then perhaps we could "follow our own bliss."