Capital Punishment

[truthseeker]

And indeed, there is nothing new under the sun or beyond.

History repeats itself, and often in vengeance. Keep your head stuck in the sky so you can't see what's going on here on the ground.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by truthseeker

And indeed, there is nothing new under the sun or beyond.

History repeats itself, and often in vengeance. Keep your head stuck in the sky so you can't see what's going on here on the ground.

Not so certain of that. There has never been (in recorded history) a nation quite like that of the United States, nor the success of its form of government.

By all accounts, it should have died an early death...but something went wrong with the experiement, and it succeeded. One of the strongest factors of the success of the United States as a nation, is that the checks and balances built into the system always seem to bring it back to even keel. Sometimes take longer than other times, but the system and nation rights itself. America's greatest strengths are balance and tolerance.

Capital punishment is nothing new to the world or to nations, as it as been going on since the beginning of civilization. However the US has invoked such drastic punishment far far less than most other civilizations of comparative size, and only after lengthy, drawn out legal processes.

No, even the Bible, points out (if one interprets Revelation certain ways), that the US rise to power, was very different from any other major "world" power's rise. That our ways are different and our reverence for the sacredness of God is different.

my thoughts.

v/r

Q

[Kaldayen]

Originally Posted by Paul James

Blaim the US Capitalist Society...or Canada...which ever works best for you.

Southpark can blame Canada for a lot of things but not for that Canada has abolished capital punishment since 1976. Although the crime rate is similar to the U.S. one, the homicide rate is much lower. I guess CP doesn't help there.

Stats there : http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/011218/d011218b.htm

I really believe that no one should be able to take someone else's life, be they individuals or governments. For me, capital punishment is the direct legal expression of "an eye for an eye". It doesn't cure anything, it simply kills another person...

Originally Posted by Quahom

No, even the Bible, points out (if one interprets Revelation certain ways), that the US rise to power, was very different from any other major "world" power's rise. That our ways are different and our reverence for the sacredness of God is different.

My question is out of topic but... do you mean the US rise is written somewhere in Revelation? Could you point me where? I'm curious.
___
Kal

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Kaldayen

Southpark can blame Canada for a lot of things but not for that Canada has abolished capital punishment since 1976. Although the crime rate is similar to the U.S. one, the homicide rate is much lower. I guess CP doesn't help there.

Stats there : http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/011218/d011218b.htm

I really believe that no one should be able to take someone else's life, be they individuals or governments. For me, capital punishment is the direct legal expression of "an eye for an eye". It doesn't cure anything, it simply kills another person...



My question is out of topic but... do you mean the US rise is written somewhere in Revelation? Could you point me where? I'm curious.
___
Kal

Hey Kal,

There is speculation, that the US is the last beast rising from the ground instead of the sea. and bearing new horns, not the big stuff. We (the US according to some reports), are the new beast from the ground. It is in Daniel, and in Revelation. And it does not neccesarrily mean only the US, but rather North America (that includes Canada, and Mexico...).

Why? Relatively speaking the North western hemisphere did not develop from conquest, but from peaceful exploration and people trying to start a new beginning, different from the old ways...some say that does describe the North American Continent and only that continent, historically.

v/r

Q

EDIT: I should rephrase: North America is the new, young "beast"...my american arrogance preceded me... sorry.

[Ciel]

Then it would appear it is the US with it's head in the sky..........
.....to live above the law one must be honest.

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Relatively speaking the North western hemisphere did not develop from conquest, but from peaceful exploration and people trying to start a new beginning, different from the old ways...some say that does describe the North American Continent and only that continent, historically.

Getting off topic here, but--OH MY GOD, Quahom, do you really believe that America was founded on 'peaceful exploration' and 'did not develop from conquest'??! Western civilization in all of North America is rooted in the genocide and subjugation of the indigenous tribes that lived here. The colonists wiped out the tribes with disease, guns, and brutal land-rape. The ones that were left were herded into restricted plots of lands and repressed, forcefully and violently forbidden to live as they had lived--peacefully and sustainably, I might add--for thousands of years.*

Oh, but you did qualify your ridiculously skewed claim by the words, "relatively speaking." Relative to what, I wonder?

Also, I'm confused, because you, as a Christian, seem to be taking pride in the fact that you believe your beloved nation to be the fulfilment of the Biblical prophecy of the Beast. If I remember Revelation correctly--and I read it and re-read it many times as a teenager obsessed with the idea of cataclysmic end times and obscure symbolism--the Beast is not something that Christians would tend to want to associate themselves or their own country with. Is it not associated with the anti-Christ, killing, the gnashing of teeth, the rending of flesh, hellfire, and destrutction?

Time and time again, I am simply dumbfounded by your perceptions and justifications.

*Please see the excerpt from Thom Hartmann's The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight, posted in this forum (click here) for more on this.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Pathless

Getting off topic here, but--OH MY GOD, Quahom, do you really believe that America was founded on 'peaceful exploration' and 'did not develop from conquest'??! Western civilization in all of North America is rooted in the genocide and subjugation of the indigenous tribes that lived here. The colonists wiped out the tribes with disease, guns, and brutal land-rape. The ones that were left were herded into restricted plots of lands and repressed, forcefully and violently forbidden to live as they had lived--peacefully and sustainably, I might add--for thousands of years.

Oh, but you did qualify your ridiculously skewed claim by the words, "relatively speaking." Relative to what, I wonder?

Also, I'm confused, because you, as a Christian, seem to be taking pride in the fact that you believe your beloved nation to be the fulfilment of the Biblical prophecy of the Beast. If I remember Revelation correctly--and I read it and re-read it many times as a teenager obsessed with the idea of cataclysmic end times and obscure symbolism--the Beast is not something that Christians would tend to want to associate themselves or their own country with. Is it not associated with the anti-Christ, killing, the gnashing of teeth, the rending of flesh, hellfire, and destrutction?

Time and time again, I am simply dumbfounded by your perceptions and justifications.

Compared relatively to the histories of most "major" nations' beginnings. Yes.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Ciel

Then it would appear it is the US with it's head in the sky..........
.....to live above the law one must be honest.

Yep, keep honestly looking for the stars at night and the bright blue skys of day. No one can live above the law. Honest or not.

[Ciel]

Then how can it be that the US sees it's self as above the law of the UN?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Ciel

Then how can it be that the US sees it's self as above the law of the UN?

First of all the UN is no bench mark by which to judge one's self by or even a nation by.

Second of all, it was the United States that made the mistake of creating the UN, twice, first under the title of League of Nations in 1918, then under the title of United Nations after WWII. But everybody makes mistakes, even extremely foolish ones...must be because we were looking up into the sky, and had our heads in the clouds of hopes and dreams...

[Ciel]

Maybe God feels the same way.

A sad waste of good human intention by many who propose peace among nations.

[Kaldayen]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

First of all the UN is no bench mark by which to judge one's self by or even a nation by.

Second of all, it was the United States that made the mistake of creating the UN, twice, first under the title of League of Nations in 1918, then under the title of United Nations after WWII. But everybody makes mistakes, even extremely foolish ones...must be because we were looking up into the sky, and had our heads in the clouds of hopes and dreams...

Greetings Quahom,

If that was a mistake, I believe that was the best mistake the US ever made. The UN isn't perfect, far from it. It's only a first step (well, actually a second step) toward a workable world order. I don't think the US population sees it as a mistake, otherwise the governement wouldn't finance it and try so hard to make it seem like they agree with it. They would simply get out of it.

I don't see hopes and dreams only in the clouds, we aren't on hell here. The dreams are accessible and it's with little steps like the UN we'll eventually get somewhere... When did the American Dream faded? I must have miss that part...

More on subject : Amnesty international is also another good step! http://www.amnesty.org
___
Kal

[wil]

Gotta love it, first we attack Iraq based on the UN, and then we made the mistake of creating the UN! As the people that lived on this land before we...

Why? Relatively speaking the North western hemisphere did not develop from conquest, but from peaceful exploration

the US is great for speaking with forked tongue.

Why do we try Sadam in Iraq and not recommend International Court, because if we ever accept int'l court then our generals and presidents and congress will be put on trial...

I think the tribes that lived here, thought conquistadors were out there conquesting, that when we took their land, raped their women, and made them march to the desert and put them on reservations...they thought it a little more than peaceful exploration.

That the six flags that flew over texas each thought they would stay a little longer...

I slept through most of American History....but I remember Manifest Destiny a little differently...

And then when this REPUBLIC goes around taking over countries to establish DEMOCRACIES, when it has been proven no true democcracy (aka mobocracy in the dictionary until Roosevelt) can stand is beyond me... we set countries up to need the IMF and WB so we can utilize resources and control territories...

I just don't think we can stand on our high horse any longer and say....well we don't kill as many as they do...so we are better despite our barbaric ways....

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by Kaldayen

Southpark can blame Canada for a lot of things but not for that Canada has abolished capital punishment since 1976. Although the crime rate is similar to the U.S. one, the homicide rate is much lower. I guess CP doesn't help there.

Stats there : http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/011218/d011218b.htm

I really believe that no one should be able to take someone else's life, be they individuals or governments. For me, capital punishment is the direct legal expression of "an eye for an eye". It doesn't cure anything, it simply kills another person...



My question is out of topic but... do you mean the US rise is written somewhere in Revelation? Could you point me where? I'm curious.
___
Kal

dont you just love southpark?! best tv show ever. i agree with the eye for an eye rule, it's completely lame. reason being; law does not give life, only christ gives life which is why he came to fulfill the law and said just love one another. being christian, if you are a real christian, puts you on a higher plane of rules that are voluntary and you give because you want to, you love because you want to, you forgive and show compassion, etc, all for the glory of god. having said that, i personally do not believe in death sentence. vengeance is the lords. i do believe in hard labor and life in prison, etc.. to keep society safe from harm.

the u.s. has done some really racist stuff, like kill indians and take their land, enslave africans and call them 2/3 person, buring so called witches, not allowing women to vote, segragation, discrimination, etc.. all they while saying we are a christian nation. however like the bible says we have to live with our transgressions and you reap what you sow. hopefully the u.s. continues to learn from its mistakes.

i think the u.s. was pretty bad growing up, and since then it has matured somewhat. its not perfect but its pretty darn good. the freedom here to be any religion allows christians to exercise their faith and for that reason the grace of god reaches out to many--here and abroad. the u.s. is also a strong ally of israel and of peace in the world. i dont know if the u.s. is in the bible anwhere, perhaps the u.s. is just a catalyst to something bigger.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

dont you just love southpark?! best tv show ever.

Surely you jest...best TV show ever?