Capitalism vs Socialism

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

Things are so good for us here in the west that we go out of our way to help people in other continents. we should give ourselves a pat on the back, instead of grilling the system.

Yes, let's all stroke ourselves for our unrivaled charity.

As the bombs drop.
As generations of aborigines deal with rifts and scars due to appropriation and integration in Australia--for their own good, of course, by the benevolence of the Great White Hope.
As we enforce trade embargoes using our free market system. Let those communists, nay-sayers, and evil-doers rot.
As we condone the continual planetary bloodletting, pulling oil from the veins of the Earth so that we can drive to Bed Bath & Beyond, Target, Wal-Mart, Applebee's, Burger King, and Best Buy in big-ass trucks.
As millions of animals suffer for our poisoned dinners.
As we impose capitalism on other people's nations, calling it "democracy" and "freedom."

Riiiiiiight.
Excuse me if I don't march in the fourth of July parade and celebrate the homecoming of the British Queen.
I'll be digging my impoverished hands into inkwells and gardens, reveling in the stink of my body, and doing the punk-ass hippy revolution jig.

I may even pick my nose occasionally, although that's not all I'll be doing.

[Postmaster]

It's true but civilisation unfolds as it should, your demanding a perfect world, we didn't begin perfect but as humans we do try to perfect, its progressive. If we didnt eat meat would our brains have developed this size? Our sense of morality and ability to communicate wouldnt be as effective as it is, and we be part of no soloution at all. We might be eating terrible food, but at least our working conditions have improved, medical care etc etc. And as for terrible food, still nothing new. I stopped eating chicken from the age of 10

[Pathless]

Maybe I do demand a perfect world. I think its good to have ideals to strive for. It's good to put our lukewarm excuses aside and challenge ourselves to be fully engaged in the world, fully human.

As far as the meat issue goes, I don't have the answer to the question about our brains. My intuitive feeling is that eating meat had little to do with brain development. Eating meat, espeically in our modern society, is unhealthy for the individual and unhealthy for the planet. If we were respectful hunters who took only the lives we needed to sustain ourselves and our loved ones, at the same time utilizing all parts of the hunted animal for clothes, musical instruments, tools, and trade goods, then I would feel comfortable eating meat. But we are not that. We are a society of exploiters and slavers, with no respect for the animals that we deny the joy and experience of living, then grind up and eat.

I recognize that I use biased, strong language. I do it to make a point.

Peace,
Pathless

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

We might be eating terrible food, but at least our working conditions have improved, medical care etc etc.

This is debatable.

Here in the states, millions of people are uninsured, and the situation is getting worse.

Working conditions in many exploited third-world countires are not improving much. What improvements may be being made are marginal and pathetic, especially when you consider that these "improvements" are being made within the very system that created them. To put it another way, if the deplorable working conditions hadn't been imposed in the first place, they would not need to be improved.

When you zoom out and look at the conditions across the globe, capitalism is not the shining icon of progress and freedom it makes itself out to be.

[Postmaster]

When you zoom out and look at the conditions across the globe, capitalism is not the shining icon of progress and freedom it makes itself out to be.

But its the best thing we have? It's a start though. Capitalism and democracy need reform and progression. And this we will get it.

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by Pathless

Working conditions in many exploited third-world countires are not improving much.

Is this actually true? I know that when I was in Kenya a few years ago we were told that things were improving. Seeing pictures of how the local city has changed since then, and talking to a good friend of mine who lives there, it would certainly appear that things have continued to improve.

[seattlegal]

Capitalism vs Socialism

Greed vs Jealousy?

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Greed vs Jealousy?

Does the desire for you and your family to have a better way of life necessarily have to be about greed?

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by cavalier

Does the desire for you and your family to have a better way of life necessarily have to be about greed?

Not necessarily. (I was referring to capitalism as tending to build greed, while socialism tends to build jealousy.)
To me the difference between capitalism and socialism is like the difference between building with stones and building with bricks. You just can't mold individuals into uniform bricks. (Notice how the Tower of Babel was built in a fascist manner with bricks, and the individuals just couldn't hold it together with such uniformity imposed from the outside.)

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Not necessarily. (I was referring to capitalism as tending to build greed, while socialism tends to build jealousy.)
To me the difference between capitalism and socialism is like the difference between building with stones and building with bricks. You just can't mold individuals into uniform bricks. (Notice how the Tower of Babel was built in a fascist manner with bricks, and the individuals just couldn't hold it together with such uniformity imposed from the outside.)

Maybe it's my ignorance, that's certainly a possibility, but I have no idea what you're talking about. I was hoping you would explain the bricks and stones thing.

[Francis king]

no, the desire for u and ur family to have a better quality of life is admirable... it is not greedy to want food and heating and education and healthcare and peace and law and order and some semblance of society, family, friends, peers, colleagues, etc... its perfectly normal... the problems start to arise when ppl want to take or accrue more than they actually need... only then does it become greed... and yes, of course, need is relative also... do u need a lear jet? really? lucky old u... some ppl don't even have roads...

[Postmaster]

But what the majority of us have today in the west would have been considered greedy 100 years ago.. I would attribute Greed to those who have an ability to help others and don't, regardless of there financial status and we can all do it to some extent. In this day and age there is alot of social awareness, maybe something that Christianity helped promote. Often people who accumulate alot of money donate plenty of it to charity. Bill Gates only leaving his kids a minium amount and giving the rest to charity when he passes, apparently. Capitalism is more about control then Greed, control is a powerful aphrodisiac.

[Postmaster]

I blame the women for being shallow with there selection....

Joke!

[Quahom1]

I have a friend in New York, he is Russian (now American). He was an engineer in high esteem in his home land (is now again here), but for a time, he had to sell hot dogs from a venor's stand to make ends meet (he laughed at the idea that he made more money as a food hawker in America than he did as an engineer back home for all those years).

But he told me something about the difference between Capitalism and Socialism that I'll never forget.

"In socialist society, after awhile they pretend to pay you, and after awhile, you pretend to work. In capitalist society, they pay you for what you are worth...so you better break the butt, if you want to be worth something."

He advised me to look at Europe to see what he meant "as it makes itself (known)."

v/r

Joshua

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

But what the majority of us have today in the west would have been considered greedy 100 years ago.. I would attribute Greed to those who have an ability to help others and don't, regardless of there financial status and we can all do it to some extent. In this day and age there is alot of social awareness, maybe something that Christianity helped promote. Often people who accumulate alot of money donate plenty of it to charity. Bill Gates only leaving his kids a minium amount and giving the rest to charity when he passes, apparently. Capitalism is more about control then Greed, control is a powerful aphrodisiac.

Funny, I thought socialism was even more about control than capitalism.

I would probably go crazy if I had to deal with a socialistic bureaucracy for everything. (I'd say, "If this is civilization, send me back to the wilderness!")