Changing Sexual Orientation Is Possible, New Research Says

[AndrewX]

Originally Posted by pattimax

Blaming Christianity because of some scum-bags is rather ridiculous, don't you think?

I dunno ... I kinda took this whole thread, as evidence to the contrary.

[Basstian]

My heart was broke when that young man the same age as my sons was beat and killed in wyoming.

1 He could have been my son.
2 My sons could have been his killers.

We can be so quick to Quote
Let He who is without sin cast the first stone and yet ignore the fact that the woman was not without sin.

Jesus didnt look up from what he was writing and tell her that her lifestyle choice was ok.
SO many little details are left out of that story...
where is the man she was caught with why wasnt he being accused...
why wasnt he there defending his love for her he just drops out of the picture
then the crowd drops out of the picture
then its just one sinner and one Saviour.

Take your partner of whatever gender out of the picture.
Take the Crowd of accusers be they Christians or Gay Rights activists out of the picture.
Now realize Jesus is asking you the same thing he asked that day.... where are your accusers (answer is gone)
Seconds away from a hate crime only one man stood between the crowd that would gladly have picked up fist size rocks and thrown hundreds until just the right one struck her temple or crushed her skull ending the relentless torture the crowd was feeding on.

Jesus looked and said.... Than neither do I accuse you Go and sin no more.

You have put me in this thread in the same situation ...
Not a single Christian on this message board has a right to "cast a stone"

Now where are your accusers?
Jesus is willing to Save any of us just as He did that woman.
But I dont think He would leave off the line most of us dont want to hear.
Go and Sin no more

Please dont ask me to think my Lord and Saviour suffered and died on that cross so I can choose whatever lifestyle I want.
I cant erase books and verses out of the Bible that name my sin sin.
My faith/religion is based on the hearing of that word and without that faith in His word I am told its impossible to please Him.

You are a creature of choice He made you in His image to have this wonderful ability to choose. That does not make every choice the right one.

With Love
Basstian

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by AndrewX

And for that matter, I would be quite OPEN to hearing the same from juantoo3, OR pattimax.

Karen, you've been very vocal. Care to share something about one of your close friends, who just happens to be gay?

I didn't see this before...

-- Since I have moved to Kentucky last year I only know a few gay people and while they are very nice, they are not close friends. But, where I was raised, West Palm Beach, FL, I had quite a few gay friends. During my inter faith days, I was particularly close with a minister and he performed my marriage ceremony. (I'm divorced now, unrelated, I didn't even think about becoming a Christian until after my divorce.)

Well, I was good friends with him before a Christian, so that probably doesn't count. Maybe if we were still in the same town, we would probably still be friends, but we would no longer run in the same circles.

[AndrewX]

Originally Posted by pattimax

I didn't see this before...

-- Since I have moved to Kentucky last year I only know a few gay people and while they are very nice, they are not close friends. But, where I was raised, West Palm Beach, FL, I had quite a few gay friends. During my inter faith days, I was particularly close with a minister and he performed my marriage ceremony. (I'm divorced now, unrelated, I didn't even think about becoming a Christian until after my divorce.)

Well, I was good friends with him before a Christian, so that probably doesn't count. Maybe if we were still in the same town, we would probably still be friends, but we would no longer run in the same circles.

This is something quite positive. Thank you for sharing that!

[bob x]

"Blaming Christianity because of some scum-bags is rather ridiculous, don't you think?"
It was Christianity which MADE them scum-bags.
The one who held me at gunpoint favored me with a sermon on hell-fire, and shouted at me to stay away from his kids: he thought homosexuality was the same as pedophilia because his preacher told him so (and I see that this disgusting slander is repeated by "good Christians" on this board, too).
The group who left me unconscious on the railroad tracks were from the Family, on one of their political campaigns against an ordinance to give us what they called "special rights", like the right to keep our jobs if we do the work or keep our apartments if we pay the rent.

[bob x]

"You are a creature of choice He made you in His image to have this wonderful ability to choose. That does not make every choice the right one. "
I did not get a choice about what I would see as beauty, or what would fill my heart with love.
My choice is whether to take joy in the gifts my creator has blessed me with, or to spit in my creator's face as the "good Christians" think I should.

[pattimax]

[quote=bob x;123352

It was Christianity which MADE them scum-bags.
The one who held me at gunpoint favored me with a sermon on hell-fire, and shouted at me to stay away from his kids: he thought homosexuality was the same as pedophilia because his preacher told him so (and I see that this disgusting slander is repeated by "good Christians" on this board, too).
The group who left me unconscious on the railroad tracks were from the Family, on one of their political campaigns against an ordinance to give us what they called "special rights", like the right to keep our jobs if we do the work or keep our apartments if we pay the rent.[/quote]

That is awful. Some people who call themselves "christians" belong behind bars, much like the rest of society who break the law. If it is legitimate, take it to court and let them decide. Sitting snd whining on the sidelines doesn't do any good. ( Neither does being inflammatory...)

[wil]

Naw it was a brand of Christianity that made them intolerant.

There are a number of denominations of Christianity that openly accept gays. There are a number of denominations that go with the 'hate the sin, love the sinner scenario'. There are a number of denominations that preach the fire and brimstone, that are percolators which create those attitudes which turn into hate crimes...be it intentional or not.

Each in their own way has their interpretation of biblical justification for their actions....and in their own way has a goal of assisting people reach salvation.

To many on the receiving end it doesn't appear that way as the means and methods are quite medieval, it is a shame. The WWJD thought seems not to come up in this regard.

Christianity has its foibles, how one denomination can require celibacy yet tolerate and cover up criminal activity is beyond me. How one can preach love, yet hate is confusing. How one can blame other religions for blindly following their religious teachers and warped interpretations and condemn the whole religion for it, despite the fact that they are doing the same is downright extraordinary.

[bob x]

If it is legitimate, take it to court and let them decide.

The police are generally on the side of the Christians. From the railroad tracks I was taken to jail. My story was not believed, but luckily one of the good Christians stole my credit card and used it, while I was still locked up, so I had some evidence for my version of events. There was, of course, no followup.

Sitting snd whining on the sidelines doesn't do any good.

I fight back in every way I know how. I resent you calling me a "whiner".

( Neither does being inflammatory...)

"Inflammatory"? I call evil evil, whether you want to hear it or not. I will not put up with "love the sinner, hate the sin" gamesmanship: I know it for what it really is.

[BlaznFattyz]

one has to also realize that it is not always the denomination, but also the social network and culture that a person is living in. You might have two groups of baptists, one in california and one in mississippi--both might emphasize baptism just the same, but the cultures of the areas and the social network that embodies race, class, and gender also have a dramatic affect on how people behave and perceive the world, which in turn affects what is being taught and accepted in the church.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by bob x

The police are generally on the side of the Christians. From the railroad tracks I was taken to jail. My story was not believed, but luckily one of the good Christians stole my credit card and used it, while I was still locked up, so I had some evidence for my version of events. There was, of course, no followup.

I fight back in every way I know how. I resent you calling me a "whiner".

"Inflammatory"? I call evil evil, whether you want to hear it or not. I will not put up with "love the sinner, hate the sin" gamesmanship: I know it for what it really is.

You need a lawyer. And if you already have one, he needs to do more or maybe you should get a different one.

You don't know as much as you think you know.

[pattimax]

Oh, and if you're gonna bring up money, check into social services. When a case is real, you can always find help.

[wil]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

one has to also realize that it is not always the denomination, but also the social network and culture that a person is living in. You might have two groups of baptists, one in california and one in mississippi--both might emphasize baptism just the same, but the cultures of the areas and the social network that embodies race, class, and gender also have a dramatic affect on how people behave and perceive the world, which in turn affects what is being taught and accepted in the church.

excellent point, isn't that though what eventually causes another division...when these varied groups get together at some national convention and find they can't agree?

[Ciel]

Originally Posted by bob x

"Inflammatory"? I call evil evil, whether you want to hear it or not. I will not put up with "love the sinner, hate the sin" gamesmanship: I know it for what it really is.

Bob x, I agree,
I have always read you as a fair man, and hope you recieve the justice owed to you........

- c -

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by bob x

I fight back in every way I know how. I resent you calling me a "whiner".

I can totally relate to this, bob x. From my position on the diamond, I do what I can, how I can. Authority figures of all kinds rankle me, and I know they wield a different kind of power than I do--more physical, more brute, more sanctioned by society.

Yet challenging them is only one way of approaching the problem. That I am physically overpowered by patriarchy, even 'legally' repressed by institutionalized ignorance doesn't make me powerless. And certainly I don't gain anything from perpetuating a state of victim-hood.

For our kind, we do what we can, where we can, however we can. We are strong and have put up with a lot of sith in our lives... forums like this are one safe place (and only one among several, many places) where our voices can be heard. Sometimes we have to shout a bit, and true there is resistance,

but in the end I feel heard... which is what I am looking for, I think.

(thinking out loud),
Pathless