Changing Sexual Orientation Is Possible, New Research Says

[BlaznFattyz]

...While writing their book, "Ex-Gays? A Longitudinal Study of Religiously Mediated Change in Sexual Orientation," researchers Stanton Jones of Wheaton College in Wheaton, Ill., and Mark Yarhouse of Regent University in Virginia Beach, Va., chronicled the experiences of 98 people who contacted Christian ministries in an attempt to become heterosexuals...

..."We are evangelical Christians committed to the truth-seeking activity of science," they said in a joint statement.

"In conducting and reporting this study, we took seriously the words of one of our heroes, C. S. Lewis, who said that science produced by Christian persons would have to be 'perfectly honest. Science twisted in the interests of apologetics would be sin and folly,'" the researchers said... CONT'D

[Francis king]

i was reading my local paper last week and a columnist, pete price, who is also a local radio dj/personality and bent as a nine bob note, said that, in the 1960's he underwent electroconvulsive therapy (electric shock treatment) to try and cure him of his homosexuality...

[pattimax]

It's a sad thing when they get it wrong.

[Pathless]

IMO, sexual orientation is a continuum. I believe people are more or less bisexual by nature, and then we are conditioned one way or the other, to start. Perhaps some of us as well have strong sexual attractions to the same sex, which are seen by some people as deviant. I think it is rather natural and that sexuality manifests in all sorts of different ways.

Can sexual orientation shift? Yes, I think so. Are gays and lesbians simply sad, confused people who need external guidance (from family, therapists, churches, etc...) to get their sexuality straightened out (pun intended)? No, I don't think so.

Live and let live. I wonder why some people are so invested in correcting other people's inclinations and choices. Sexual and gender diversity is certainly one area where this desire to "fix" or control other people's lives is still quite prevalent.

Personally, I don't understand what would attract any LGBT individual to the Judeo-Christian tradition--maybe a fascination strictly with Jesus and his message of unconditional love, that I can see.

Why do people of faith need to shape others' identities, sexual or otherwise? Would Jesus care if a person is gay, straight, lesbian, bisexual, a drag queen or drag king? It seems to me that he wouldn't give a damn. Did he not hang out with Mary Magdelene, who some speculate was a prostitute? What does Jesus care about? He cares about people's capacity to Love one another and do good works for the upliftment of humanity (my interpretation).

Churches could practice compassion when interacting with LGBT people, who to this day are, despite the sexual revoltion and despite Stonewall and gay rights, often oppressed and denigrated. But they are just people, and often quite kind. Surely they can be good Christians without having to change who they are. Why force them to abandon an important part of themselves? I think when Christians try to 'convert' LGBTs to the 'straight' life, they are, despite occasional cases of success, mostly pushing a community of people away. Instead of practicing compassion, these 'Christians' are practicing bigotry, hypocrisy, and hatred.

Jesus Weeps,
Pathless

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by Pathless

What does Jesus care about? He cares about people's capacity to Love one another and do good works for the upliftment of humanity (my interpretation).

Jesus cares about the way we live. The reason Jesus associated with who he did was not because he liked what they were doing, he came to show them a better way. Or to put another way, He came to heal the sick.

Christ came to extend grace and mercy to us all and to those who would forget themselves and follow him, he has promised eternal life. (church interpretation)

[BlaznFattyz]

being conditioned with acceptance is one thing, but going against what is natural and how god made us is another. no matter what the sickness is such as, addictive to substances, sex, or abusing the body with tattoos, piercings; or going against our natural functions like sexual orientation or other perversity-- god can heal us because he loves us, but we have to choose it because we want to please god and find peace.

[AndrewX]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

being conditioned with acceptance is one thing, but going against what is natural and how god made us is another. no matter what the sickness is such as, addictive to substances, sex, or abusing the body with tattoos, piercings; or going against our natural functions like sexual orientation or other perversity-- god can heal us because he loves us, but we have to choose it because we want to please god and find peace.

Oh good grief!
Just when you thought the narrow-mindedness and ignorance could not possibly get any worse ... VOILA!!!

Those poor, misguided Maori heathens! What ever shall we do to help them find JEEEEEZUS!



Which is the greater sin? Choosing to love another person of the same sex, or REFUSING to love another human being at all?

And while you're thumping, care to explain for us how "hating the sin" in this case is the least bit different than hating the whole group of people who are sinning (as you folks see it, that is)?

In other words, TELL ME ONE WAY in which you are LOVING homosexuals ...



I assure you brother, for every prayer you send out on behalf of those poor, misguided homosexuals (and people with tattoos, piercings, different color of skin than you, etc.) ... I will send out TWO such prayers FOR YOU! - cuz guess who needs them more!

I'm almost disgusted enough by this to lose my lunch.

All I can say on a personal note, is BLESS YOU, Brother, for giving me the chance to practice the Unconditional LOVE which Christ preached, taught and demonstrated ... for ALL PEOPLE. If it weren't for folks like you, I might delude myself into believing there weren't any significant challenges left!

(If you can't love the people with tattoos, and fifteen body piercings, and the drag queens and the ultra-liberals, then you really aren't loving at all! As Jesus taught, it is EASY to love those who are closest to us - family, friends, fellow church-goers. The CHALLENGE, and hence the shining, beautiful opportunity to PRACTICE the Love of God, is when we cannot easily identify with the person, or group, in question. But don't worry if that slips by you - again, and again, and again. You'll get more opportunities.

And mine is you, and people of this mindset, for I know my imperfections, and the considerable irritation that comes from observing such intolerance - and hate. Until we learn to see ourself in another, and to love our neighbors as ourselves, all the preaching in the world, in the name of Jesus or any other Savior ... is really just whistlin' Dixie.

I do not hate you for your narrowness and ignorance. I just wish it didn't take so long to overcome. And that, I admit, is my problem.)

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by AndrewX

Oh good grief!...


the name of Jesus or any other Savior ... is really just whistlin' Dixie.

Hysteria and animation aside, what other Savior?

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by AndrewX

Those poor, misguided Maori heathens! What ever shall we do to help them find JEEEEEZUS!

you really should try to grow outside of the mindset of a child and not argue with statements such as these. i never said hate nor did i say i didnt love in any of my post, so don't add words that are not there, because you are sadly mistaken. i was talking about christians having the power of letting go of what they know in their heart is wrong thru the power of christ and the transformation of the holy spirit.

[Basstian]

My kids are raised I love each and every one of them 2 boys and 3 girls.
I set now and think about mistakes I have made as a parent,
this subject really hits a nerve.


Most of my kids are well balanced thought wise and I say most.
My son would say he hates gay's. There is alot of guilt as a dad
I taught him that. Just by not teaching him how to effectually
deal with sin in the lives of people arround you.

Jesus said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
.... that fact needs to be driven into the minds of people
to keep in check any judgemental attitudes about this
or many other subjects.
And compel us to love the sinner as He loved them.

The otherside of that coin is this.
Jesus first made sure she knew her accusers had left
and that He was not her accuser but her Saviour.
Once she understood His role as Saviour she was told to
go and sin no more.

Brothers an Sisters when you confront a person "living in sin"
look around you and see what you are living in?

Maybe this is why Jesus taught us to pray "Deliver us from evil"

P.S Christians should have a right to believe in sin and
call it such. Its what that belief drives them to do that
should be debated.

[AndrewX]

Originally Posted by pattimax

Hysteria and animation aside, what other Savior?

EVERY other Savior, Pattimax, EVERY other Savior. I believe that there have been dozens in our world, some of them every bit as Divine as Jesus ... while others are still walking that same Royal Highway.

I would say there's a lot preached and taught in the name of Mohammed today, for example. Since I believe Mohammad to have been an advanced disciple of Jesus, I find it sadly ironic that there is such enmity and bitterness between Xianity and Islam. Alas, each side thinks it's right ... and doesn't realize what foolishness they are perpetuating.

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

you really should try to grow outside of the mindset of a child and not argue with statements such as these

Damn, Blazn, talk about the pot callin' the kettle black!

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

i never said hate nor did i say i didnt love in any of my post

It's not just what you say, Blazn, or even what you don't say. And let's not pretend that this isn't about hate, or about drawing lines in the sand. You can lie to me, you can play word games and argue semantics, or insist til the cows come home that - "I did not say that." In all fairness, the only thing I can say is, "Oh, ok, my bad ... I guess you did not SAY that."

Your Jesus knows your thoughts and feelings on the matter. Your God has a pretty good clue what you really think and believe. Do you?

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

i was talking about christians having the power of letting go of what they know in their heart is wrong

Try starting by letting go of a judgmental attitude, as if God actually appointed you to sort out who is righteous and who is not. Try starting by letting go of phobias and fears, and accepting that gays are people too. That's PEOPLE first, and only gays, second. Kinda like you are a person first, and only a Christian second.

Try starting by getting to know a few gay people, and befriending them ... not with the ulterior motive of leading them to Christ - or even with the secret hope and desire in your heart that perhaps, through your example or instrumentality, maybe just maybe you will be able to lead them to Christ.

What presumptuousness! What incredible hypocrisy!!!

No, Blazn. I want to hear about one or two of your GAY FRIENDS. Tell me about someone who you know, who is EVERY BIT the kind of friend to you as one of your heterosexual friends ... but who just happens to be gay.

I'm waiting ...

...

...

...

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by AndrewX

Try starting by letting go of a judgmental attitude, as if God actually appointed you to sort out who is righteous and who is not. Try starting by letting go of phobias and fears, and accepting that gays are people too. That's PEOPLE first, and only gays, second. Kinda like you are a person first, and only a Christian second.

this again is where you go wrong, making assumptions and adding words to what i said. you have a real problem with that. i'm sorry, but i dont fit your idea of someone being judgemental, hateful, and a line drawer, even though i think you have presumed that to make things ok in your mind, it is wrong for you to make these statements about me. it is because i am a believer in jesus christ that i know for myself what is right and wrong, and i do wish others to know about god.

[AndrewX]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

this again is where you go wrong, making assumptions and adding words to what i said. you have a real problem with that. i'm sorry, but i dont fit your idea of someone being judgemental, hateful, and a line drawer, even though i think you have presumed that to make things ok in your mind, it is wrong for you to make these statements about me. it is because i am a believer in jesus christ that i know for myself what is right and wrong, and i do wish others to know about god.

You have not answered my question, Blazn. How many gay people do you call FRIEND? Not associate, not co-worker, but FRIEND. How many gays or lesbians do you count among your closest friends, or even just GOOD friends?

Tell me something about one of them ... I'm still waiting ...

[bob x]

"i never said hate nor did i say i didnt love "
You don't SAY you hate-- but that is what it is. You SAY you love-- but you don't.
"i was talking about christians having the power of letting go of what they know in their heart is wrong "
*I* know what is in my heart: *YOU* do not. It is my very heart that you are asking me to cut out of me. My sexuality is one of God's great and holy blessings to me. When you call me "wrong" for seeing beauty and feeling love, you are blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by AndrewX

EVERY other Savior, Pattimax, EVERY other Savior. I believe that there have been dozens in our world, some of them every bit as Divine as Jesus ... while others are still walking that same Royal Highway.
...

There IS no other Savior. If you come up with something, I want names and credible documentation... You can believe the earth is flat or the moon is made of cheese, doesn't make it so.

I won't hold my breath.