Christian Law

lunamoth · 02-13-2007, 06:06 PM

What, if any, are the Christian Laws/Commandments that all Christians are obligated to follow?

Also, please explain the basis for any laws you list. Thank you.

Dondi · 02-13-2007, 06:18 PM

I'm surprised that I need to bring this up to you, lunamoth.

"Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." - Matthew 22:36-40

James calls the latter, "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" the "royal law", which if we do well to fulfill.

Pretty much a summation of the Law. But Christians are not subject to the Law, at least in the strict sense, for we are unable to fulfill it. Instead we are led by the Spirit, who writes the Law in our hearts.

earl · 02-13-2007, 06:23 PM

I've said it before, but what the heck. Jesus didn't come packing many "laws." The only law was 1 of the heart: love God and one's neighbor. The rest of one's spiritual journey is finding ways to accoplish that. Simple message, profound depths to plumb, and very challenging to implement as the implied question to always ask oneself in regard to this is what do I need to relinquish/surrender next to accomplish my next step in living the depths of this "law?" (Do I need to give up my materialism? Do I give up my self-importance? Do I give up having to know/be right? Do I give up any and all expectations of the next moment to fully live this one?) Too many specified "laws" beyond this seem IMO to get in the way of a deep sincere search to live that message. Maybe that's why Jesus saw them unnessary to voice.

take care, earl (Hey Dondi, we were actually on the same page-saw you post just as mine was posted.)

lunamoth · 02-13-2007, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

I'm surprised that I need to bring this up to you, lunamoth.

"Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." - Matthew 22:36-40

James calls the latter, "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" the "royal law", which if we do well to fulfill.

Pretty much a summation of the Law. But Christians are not subject to the Law, at least in the strict sense, for we are unable to fulfill it. Instead we are led by the Spirit, who writes the Law in our hearts.

Hi Dondi, I am in complete agreement with your post. But I have seen many posts recently that seem to imply other laws that Christians are obligated to follow, and I am interested in understanding these views.

Thomas · 02-13-2007, 06:25 PM

The 10 Commandments?

Thomas

lunamoth · 02-13-2007, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earl

I've said it before, but what the heck. Jesus didn't come packing many "laws." The only law was 1 of the heart: love God and one's neighbor. The rest of one's spiritual journey is finding ways to accoplish that. Simple message, profound depths to plumb, and very challenging to implement as the implied question to always ask oneself in regard to this is what do I need to relinquish/surrender next to accomplish my next step in living the depths of this "law?" (Do I need to give up my materialism? Do I give up my self-importance? Do I give up having to know/be right? Do I give up any and all expectations of the next moment to fully live this one?) Too many specified "laws" beyond this seem IMO to get in the way of a deep sincere search to live that message. Maybe that's why Jesus saw them unnessary to voice.

take care, earl (Hey Dondi, we were actually on the same page-saw you post just as mine was posted.)

I agree earl.

I must admit to a bit of baggage from my time as a Baha'i, in which there were some very specific laws believed to be from the mouth of God. I'm wondering if anyone thinks that when Christ returns He brings new laws with Him, things like specific marriage laws, burial laws, or laws prohibiting homosexuality.

Also, do some here construe other things said in the Gospel or rest of the NT as new laws binding on Christians?

lunamoth · 02-13-2007, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas

The 10 Commandments?

Thomas

I think that all 10 can easily been seen to align with the Greatest Commandment. However, Christians do not observe the Sabbath in the same manner as the Israeltites. How do we explain this?

Prober · 02-13-2007, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunamoth

However, Christians do not observe the Sabbath in the same manner as the Israeltites. How do we explain this?

I think we should.

Dondi · 02-13-2007, 07:53 PM

Paul explains this pretty well, I think:

"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." - Colossians 2:13-17

He also talks about our liberty in Christ:

"For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." - Galatians 5:13-14

Which brings us back to the two commandments.

wil · 02-13-2007, 07:59 PM

Seems to me we are quite fond of numerous rules and regulations.

If those are the two commandments...where does it put all the other requirements we put on 'Christians'? ie celibate priests, liquor, women, sexual orientation....

Personally I take the ten commandments as a great way to live ones life...but as discussed in other areas, I take them as analogies, metaphor for MORE than the literal...ie thou shall not murder (creativity, joy, enthusiasm...) thou shall not commit adultery (don't dilute (adulterate) your principles)

Prober · 02-13-2007, 08:07 PM

I'd say the Greatest Commandment and the Ten Commandments.

I believe everything else is contained in them (actually everything is contained in the Ten Commandments but the "Greatest Commandment" makes it more clear).

lunamoth · 02-13-2007, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prober

I think we should.

Actually, I disagree that Christians are called to follow the Sabbath Laws as laid out by Jewish written and oral law.

I think for Christians to observe the Sabbath means to keep it as a day of remembrance of God, of God's mercy, providence and love. It's more of a following the Spirit of this law, rather than certain practices. One way I heard it phrased is that all of the ten commandments are about not taking what does not belong to you...and these are all aligned with the command to love God and love one another. I link the Sabbath law to those teachings in the Pentateuch about every seven years cancelling all debts and letting all slaves go free, and I also especially notice that it's not just the observant who rests on Sabbath, but all in his household. We are not to take what does not belong to us (labor, land, goods), because it ALL belongs to God. We have what we have only by God's grace and providence, and a day of rest acknowledges this. It's like hitting "reset."

Let me emphatically state that I don't mean to say that Christians have a better or more relevant or updated view of Sabbath than Jews! I find it offensive and inherently violent when as Christians we imply that somehow 'get' these laws better than Jews. Christianity is a different religion and we thus re-interpret the OT in a different way. Different...not better.

lunamoth · 02-13-2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

Paul explains this pretty well, I think:

"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." - Colossians 2:13-17

He also talks about our liberty in Christ:

"For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." - Galatians 5:13-14

Which brings us back to the two commandments.

I quite agree with your selections here Dondi.

Why then do so many Christians get so bent out of shape over homosexuality?

lunamoth · 02-13-2007, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

Seems to me we are quite fond of numerous rules and regulations.

I think so too. This must be why we keep trying to put heavy yokes of law on top of the liberty found in love.

BTW, before you start thinking of me as an anarchist (of which I've been previously accused), I think laws are good for the peaceful functioning of society, and I think that for the most part the 10 commandments represent not only a holy way of being but also pretty common sense universal laws for peace-keeping.

I just think that too often we confuse our own laws with the word of God.

Dondi · 02-13-2007, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunamoth

I quite agree with your selections here Dondi.

Why then do so many Christians get so bent out of shape over homosexuality?

Because in principle, it's viewed as wrong for several reasons:

1) It goes against the natural order of procreation. (Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve)
2) It is condemned by God in the OT and NT.
3) It thwarts God's command to be fruitful and multiply.
4) It goes against the order of marriage by God (A man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife, and the two will become one flesh).
5) Mechanically, the plumbing is all wrong.