Christianity and Democracy - Page 2

BlaznFattyz · 12-02-2006, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

...the Word of God is specific in our requirements toward following our respective governments, regardless of what kind they are. We are to obey the legal authorities as have been placed over us by God Himself (He puts the governments over us). We are also to get involved with our governments and be active (how else can God make change?).

i agree.

InLove · 12-02-2006, 04:44 PM

I just wanted to stop by and say "thanks" for all the responses. I see that a great deal of thought has been put into them, and I appreciate it very much. I am mulling all these things over, and I've got some things to do this weekend, but I will post again soon. In the meantime, I hope the thread continues to expand. I can use all the help I can get!

(Q--I like your new avatar)

InPeace,
InLove

China Cat Sunflower · 12-02-2006, 04:45 PM

I think a lot depends on the eschatological leanings and the identity establishing mechanisms of one's sect. If now is the time of the end, and the whole world including the political institutions are in the grip of Satan heading for the final showdown, then it makes sense to withdraw from participating in a lost cause. Many sects, especially relatively new one's have established a group identity based on being the "remnant church", or only true holder of the truth. In that context the group control mechanisms employed take on an isolationist tone.

Chris

Quahom1 · 12-03-2006, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InLove

I just wanted to stop by and say "thanks" for all the responses. I see that a great deal of thought has been put into them, and I appreciate it very much. I am mulling all these things over, and I've got some things to do this weekend, but I will post again soon. In the meantime, I hope the thread continues to expand. I can use all the help I can get!

(Q--I like your new avatar)

InPeace,
InLove

Why, thankyou. I found it all by my self (this time)

v/r

Joshua

Quahom1 · 12-03-2006, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

I think a lot depends on the eschatological leanings and the identity establishing mechanisms of one's sect. If now is the time of the end, and the whole world including the political institutions are in the grip of Satan heading for the final showdown, then it makes sense to withdraw from participating in a lost cause. Many sects, especially relatively new one's have established a group identity based on being the "remnant church", or only true holder of the truth. In that context the group control mechanisms employed take on an isolationist tone.

Chris

Chris,

The world will end when God says it will end...not one second before or after. And the last time I checked, He didn't exactly give us a time line...so we continue on each day, trying to make the best of what we have.

We plan for tomorrow, but live today as if it is the last day...(in this Mee, Dor, FS, Thomas and I agree).

Can't go wrong living each day as if it is the last (Carpe Diem)!

v/r

Joshua

wil · 12-04-2006, 09:44 PM

Ok now how do you not reconcile it?

I mean where can one go that their religion will match with the Government in power?

Here we vote and if the majority way isn't our way their candidate gets in...and does whatever we didn't want...

Or the candidate we did vote for gets in...and then does whatever they want.

Cage · 12-04-2006, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Chris,

The world will end when God says it will end...not one second before or after. And the last time I checked, He didn't exactly give us a time line...so we continue on each day, trying to make the best of what we have.

We plan for tomorrow, but live today as if it is the last day...(in this Mee, Dor, FS, Thomas and I agree).

Can't go wrong living each day as if it is the last (Carpe Diem)!

v/r

Joshua

I'm just passing through, and I saw the 'Carpe Diem' philosophy presented, so I thought I'd post something I wrote a couple years ago, lol!
Sorry for the interuption, and off topic post. Disregard if you disagree...

On a side note: I'm feeling less bogged down now, and may start posting again soon.

"I feel good! duh duh duh duh duh duh duh... I knew that I would...duh duh duh duh duh duhd duh...So good, so good! I found you! duh duh duh duh! whaooow!

Did I ever tell you guys that I'm bi-polar.

Love,

The bold don’t live forever,
but the cautious never live at all.
Try not to be in the latter,
always too scared you’ll fall.

Never look back on life
with dismay in your eyes,
and never let the lows
override the slightest highs.

The wars you must fight,
fight them with pride,
and never be something
you feel you must hide.

You gotta learn how to live
because you can’t get it back.
Experience each moment
as if it’s fading to black.

Live with great passion.
Sometimes slow, sometimes fast,
like there’s no tomorrow,
because today never lasts.

It will pass you by
like a quick, fleeting breath.
If you live without heart
you’re just existing till death.

To never live at all
is the worst of all shame.
Take this life by the horns
and ride your best game.

It’s another “Tree of life”
and this advice I will give...
Don’t stay stuck to the bench.
Find some courage and live.

Forgive this post, please...I'm just having some fun!

cyberpi · 12-04-2006, 11:10 PM

Q,
How is pure democracy, "Mob rule"? I see it as the complete opposite. Is not a mob a group of people that oppress another portion of the population? Government is a very small group of people that extract 1/3 to 1/2 of you and calls it their own way. I'd rather give 1/2 to my neighbors and the people in the world I think need it rather than to the non-representative government in DC. "No taxes without representation"... this vote every 4 years between the lesser of two evils is NOT much for representation. It is pretty much a sham. Today the US federal government extracts maybe 1/3 from you, gives it away, spends it on what they choose, and sells 1/3 of your children to foreign countries without even asking you. It is getting crazy. It is akin to a startup business calling themselves, "Santa". Give Santa 1/3 of your every paycheck or business transaction and then see if the men you vote in to play Santa and the elves are able to deliver on their promises.

Lobbying is equally a sick joke... involvement means giving more money to a system that you know is broke. It is the same theory... give yourself to a small group of people instead of to your neighbors because that small group has power over your neighbors.

It is identical to Venezuela's Chavez who takes an existing natural resource, sells it, and then gives a portion back to the people to buy their vote. But instead the US government takes a large portion of everyone's blood. Irresponsibly, without your vote or consent, it spends it. It often wastes it.

I submit that if a people pool their power together for collective needs, that the collective needs should be rightfully managed by collective decisions. Those decisions require having a vote... a referendum... a say in every single law... a say in every single treaty or negotiation with foreign powers. I see few, if any, politicians in government worthy of a trillionth of what they control. Not even a trillionth. Give to Caesar what is Ceasar's? Fine, to obey that I will have to give no more than 1 / trillionth of my taxes to Caesar. The rest I give to my neighbors, the ones worthy of their salt, the one's that God cares about... the people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Second, the Word of God is specific in our requirements toward following our respective governments, regardless of what kind they are. We are to obey the legal authorities as have been placed over us by God Himself (He puts the governments over us). We are also to get involved with our governments and be active (how else can God make change?).

So you think Caesar, Pontius Pilate, and Herod were placed by God over Jesus? Ok... I submit that you are wrong. What is the value of Roman currency today?

InLove... I submit that democracy is rightful by Faith... as a law formed between a group of people by agreement. That is faith between people... not necessarily in any government or leader. If you've heard my piece on the verses I'll save it. If not, I'll add it.

InLove · 12-05-2006, 01:11 PM

Wow. Thank you, everyone. I've been gone for a couple of days, and I am delighted to find that this seems to indeed be a subject worth discussing. I need to take substantial time to read and comprehend what everyone has said. In the meantime, I would just like to go ahead and comment on the poetry that found its way into the conversation.

Thank you, Cage! (Nice to see you around).

InPeace,
InLove