Christianity + Tarot cards.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

oThat the rich and successful, including the cardinals and bishops, have used them down the ages and continue to this day speaks volumes.



Regards

TE

yes it does speak volumes i would say . religious leaders are those who should set an example and if they are representing the God of the bible i would think that they should put Gods way of doing things first and not look to other means for direction
LET them be. Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit....matthew 15;14

(Isaiah 9:16) And those who are leading this people on prove to be the ones causing [them] to wander; and those of them who are being led on, the ones who are being confused

(John 3:19) Now this is the basis for judgment, that the light has come into the world but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked.

(2 Thessalonians 2:12) in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.

(2 Timothy 4:3) For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled ........... yes i would say it does speak volumes

[seattlegal]

BTW, anybody familiar with the psychomantium in Greece?

Isn't that a mirror-chamber that people use to speak to the dead?

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, seattlegal!

Haven't seen you around a lot lately. Probably just focused on different areas.

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Isn't that a mirror-chamber that people use to speak to the dead?

Pretty much yes, except it was my understanding that it was a big reflecting pool, covered over by a building that kept it in the dark. If I am told correctly, it seems the seekers were put through a ritual cleansing before entering to seek their loved ones or have questions answered.

This place was supposedly located "just" outside the gates of Hades, which in Greek terms is the farthest-most Southeast corner of the Greek mainland.

My interest is mostly archeological. But for those here looking to contact spirits, it would seem to me the best would be to go straight to the source. Look your consulting spirit straight in the eye, so to speak. That is, if you dare.

Me? I ain't that brave.

[juantoo3]

Come to think of it, I remember now of hearing of something when I was a kid.

Something about standing in front of a mirror in the dark and calling for "bloody Mary" to come.

I was never brave (stupid?) enough to try, but I was told by some that it worked. Of course, they also said that some who tried went insane. I took it all to be BS.

Anybody here ever try this?

[Faithfulservant]

Anyone familiar with channeling? I was living next to a neighbor who had a friend that channeled.. she was supposedly being tutored by JZ Knight who channeled Ramtha.. I went to my neighbors house after having an argument with my boyfriend at the time and this friend channeled her spirit.. I kid you not.. Her voice changed.. her demeanor changed.. she had this weird accent. Needless to say the hair on my body stood straight up. She then proceeded to tell me things about my relationship with my boyfriend that I never told anyone. I prayed so hard during this asking God to protect me because I had the utter feeling of danger.. I left that neighbors house and prayed till I felt that danger feeling pass.

I had always been curious about the supernatural and I found a deck of tarot cards.. I read a book and did a complex layout and I freaked myself out. The cards were straight up without a doubt hitting the nail on the head about every aspect of my life. I burned the cards.

Another time (this was more recent) I found a deck of the cards they use to test psychic people. I didnt even look at what symbols the deck used. I held up a card with the back towards me and the first card.. the first symbol that popped in my head was a circle.. I looked at the card and thought. no way that was pure chance.. laughing a bit to myself I tried the second card and the first symbol that popped in my head was 3 wavy lines I looked at the card and threw the deck of cards away.. not laughing anymore.

What I learned from these things is that if I open my mind and my life to powers other than God.. Someone other than God will take advantage. Im a prime target because I belong to God and that other being hates that and wants nothing more than to wedge himself in between God and myself.

It comes to me that the helmet of salvation is the mind of Christ. We protect ourselves.. our very mind.. our thought processes.. by keeping Christ there always.

FS

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Anyone familiar with channeling? I was living next to a neighbor who had a friend that channeled..

What I learned from these things is that if I open my mind and my life to powers other than God.. Someone other than God will take advantage. Im a prime target because I belong to God and that other being hates that and wants nothing more than to wedge himself in between God and myself.

It comes to me that the helmet of salvation is the mind of Christ. We protect ourselves.. our very mind.. our thought processes.. by keeping Christ there always.

FS

i know what you are talking about. i did that once & it reminded me of the time when Jesus was tempted by Satan. i was literally being presented with this fake power to rule the world & i did not like it. the Holy Ghost would not let me even go there & i dont need to do that again. i also have experiences like what you are saying with the cards, but i never did it, but have been around it. the voice changes to real low, they shake, their eyes roll back into their heads & they speak a different language. it is not the Holy Ghost & fire with tongues language through prayer & it is not the same thing as meditation as in THINK ON THESE THINGS.. whatsoever things are lovely...
i could say a lot, but i think i have said enough in this thread.
i am so glad i have Jesus to walk through the fire with.

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Come to think of it, I remember now of hearing of something when I was a kid.

Something about standing in front of a mirror in the dark and calling for "bloody Mary" to come.

I was never brave (stupid?) enough to try, but I was told by some that it worked. Of course, they also said that some who tried went insane. I took it all to be BS.

Anybody here ever try this?

no i never tried that. but i saw part of a movie once where they were doing that but instead they were calling the candy man & they had to say it three times & he came through the mirror. it was more like a fiction vampire thing & it was not really good enough to get me to sit through watching it.

[mee]

It is natural that everyone should want to know what the future holds. The desire to secure good fortune and to avert what may be harmful is also universal. That is why people throughout the ages have looked to spirits and deities for guidance. In so doing, they became involved in spiritism, magic, astrology, and other superstitious practices. People in the past wore amulets and talismans to protect themselves, and they turned to medicine men and shamans for cures. People today still carry "Saint" Christopher medals or wear "good luck" charms, and they have their séances, Ouija boards, crystal balls, horoscopes, and tarot cards. Where spiritism and superstition are concerned, peopleseems to have changed little

the Bible shows that fortune-tellers and wicked spirits go hand in hand. For example, Acts 16:16-19 mentions "a demon of divination" that enabled a certain girl to practice "the art of prediction." However, her ability to foretell the future was lost when the demon was expelled. Clearly, divination is a bait used by the demons to lure people into their trap

[wil]

Anyone familiar with channeling? I was living next to a neighbor who had a friend that channeled.. she was supposedly being tutored by JZ Knight who channeled Ramtha..

I'm halfway through Ramtha (JZ's 'White Book') it is a good read, will irritate many at times, but at other times there is thoughts and insights and comments that will spark something in everyone. My first encounter with the school was another 'yeah right!'

Seems I keep fooling myself into thinking I'm becoming more tolerant and less judgemental...but spirit keeps putting lessons in front of me to indicate otherwise.

[taijasi]

Another perspective on Tarot, channelling, or what-have-you, is that these are methods of divination which help us to take the blinders off. In so doing, you may actually come to see, know, and love yourself more, others more, and G-d more. To do this, requires an open mind, as well as an open heart.

If these things scare you - and understandably so, given media hype, movies like Friday the 13th, and the rampant astralism (emotional sensationalism) still associated with Ouija boards and the like - then just avoid it. But don't pronounce judgments just because it isn't your bag. While you can quote scripture until you turn blue in the face trying to defend, essentially, closed-mindedness ... I can prove to an open-minded person, beyond a modicum of doublt, that such tools of divination can be used to legitimately and safely contact one's own Soul, angelic presences, or in rare circumstances (granted), even Christ himself ... (though certainly the Christ-spirit is as near as one's own heart!).

I would submit that not every person - Christian or otherwise - who claims to hold daily conversations with Christ, God, angels, prophets, or other quasi-spiritual figures ... is doing so. It upsets many people to find out that Deity does not leave Deity's high post as Lord of Cosmos to bend to every whim, beck & call of selfish groveling (aka, `prayer,' as some dare to call it). Indeed, it offends some to find that there are more important things going on even in our little world - much less the Universe - than to carry on this way. Nevertheless, the God-in-a-box syndrome seems quite prevalent in some parts, almost worse than I've ever seen it - but I keep my TV turned off more these days, so ostrich-like, I pretend it's not so bad.

I know plenty of folks who are convinced that by dangling a crystal or pendulum, they can ascertain cosmic insight and ultimate truth. I suppose I believed something alone these lines at one time. I also picked up such rubbish as the supposedly-channelled works of Elizabeth Clare Prophet and the `I am' folks. It was a hard blow to my glamorized astral body to realize that this stuff is well-meaning at best. If anyone or anything is being channeled in (these specific) teachings, it is but the channeler's own conscience, or her accumulated spiritual wisdom - not really any superior to mine or yours.

In some cases, yes, a discarnate entity - usually a deceased & earthbound human - may come through. Or, as often occurs, the person moves on, and the spiritual `shell' manifests, claiming to be Uncle Joe. Here is part of the danger (or difficulty) with spiritualism, is that only a high spiritual discernment can recognize that Joe has long since moves on, and the thing claiming to be Joe - harmless enough in many instances, is simply the astral residue (his vacated, outward personality, so to speak). Occasionally such "spirits" as people insist on calling them, are troublesome, or outright evil. And of course, there are playful nature spirits (lesser Devas) which also love to confuse mediums, play at Ouija boards through our psychic auras, etc. Again, they are mostly harmless, though sometimes spooky.

The tarot, quite frankly, should not be relegated to the same category of divination methods as some of these things ... and to discuss channeling at length, or get into Ouija boards, is to speak of another topic - or a much broader subject.

Tarot, quite simply, means The Book. You know, like, The Bible. And both works were carefully written (speaking of the New Testament, that is) in a language of symbolism in order to help the aspirant (spiritual seeker) to get in touch with his own Higher Nature (aka, God, or Divinity, as Christians put it). When one understands deeply the intended language - the symbolism - of the Tarot, and when readings are done in a spirit of selflessness, with the intention of assisting one's fellow soul (and preferably not just for ****s & grins), then amazing things can happen. Truly, the same Divine Magic as works itself through saints and soothsayers, can take hold. And not always are things solely of the future revealed, but often much insight can be gained into the present, or into past conditions that have led up to, or influenced, the present.

In this, the Tarot is the same as ... prayer. But of course, not everyone will approach it this way, and admittedly, I have as much skill with a Tarot deck as with rocket surgery. But again, it's more about purity of motive than anything - and I agree wholeheartedly with the statement that ultimately we don't need Tarot, other methods of Divination - or for that matter, a church, a priest, creeds or bibles - in order to get in touch with G-d.

protokletos

[Faithfulservant]

I lived 15 mins from Yelm WA practically my whole life.. We used to drive by JZ Knights mansion and gawk.. you could see the chandeliers in the horse barns and the complete seclusion of the place.. because we lived so close there was a huge uprising of channeling in my area..

Another perspective on Tarot, channelling, or what-have-you, is that these are methods of divination which help us to take the blinders off. In so doing, you may actually come to see, know, and love yourself more, others more, and G-d more. To do this, requires an open mind, as well as an open heart.

I personally believe that God put those blinders there on purpose. I always found it curious that we only use a small portion of our brains and believing that Gods creation of the human body is such a wondrous thing.. That everything has its purpose whether we use it or not. Maybe we have the ability for supernatural locked in our very brains.. but for whatever reason we are not supposed to use them because God wants us to go to Him and Satans great weapon from back in Eden is that we could be like God. Its all a great mystery and I find that I just have to trust God and let Him guide me in my life.

FS

[taijasi]

To each his or her own. I agree that we have barely tapped the potentials of the human Spirit - that same, Divine Spirit which we know in its relatively more perfect form as `G-d.' Certainly Christ taught this, and he also taught his disciples to be wary. He sent them out with the instruction: "Be ye wise, as serpents, and harmless, as doves." (Matthew 10:16)

I tip my hat in acknowledgement of the work of such pioneers in the scientific exploration of the paranormal ... as J. B. Rhine, Charles Tart, and Edgar Cayce (although Cayce is almost in a category of his own). But I lament the fact that there is still such superstition, fear, and xenophobia rampant in the religious or spiritual arena regarding this subject - of what are essentially, the "gifts of the spirit."

What is important, in considering this subject - tarot, or divination more generally - is to remember - try not to throw the baby out with the bathwater!

So, regarding most christians' stance regarding the Tarot, I cannot speak for anyone other than myself ... but I do believe Christ taught us not to fear, but to seek to understand. He advised this even - or even especially! - of one's enemies, as well as one's friends, family, teachers. And he advised it of all subjects, though again, he instructed us to "test the spirits." He expected his followers - if capable, as the goat scaling the side of the mountain - to think, and to form their own opinions ... and to decide for themselves whether divination, or a particular form of it, is helpful or not, in a particular case, and so on. For the sheep, I doubt he expected much at all. But to see the blind continuing to follow the blind, and leading other blind - was nothing new 2,000 years ago, and it's nothing new now.

I say this not to endorse Tarot or divination, but to suggest that there's more than one approach, and more than a simple duality of "yes, Tarot is fine" and "no, this is the work of the devil." Really now. Surely we can do better.

protokletos

[mee]

The use of divination as a means to "communicate" with angels is not uncommon. One source outrightly encourages its readers to employ rune stones, tarot cards, I Ching coins, palmistry, and astrology. "Allow your inner knowing self to lead you to the right oracle," the authors write, "and trust that an angel will meet you there."

According to the Bible, however, whatever ‘meets you there’ certainly is not one of God’s angels. Why? Because divination stands in open defiance of God, and true worshipers—in heaven and on earth—have nothing to do with it. Why, in Israel divination was a capital offense! "Everybody doing these things is something detestable to Jehovah," the Law stated.—Deuteronomy 13:1-5; 18:10-12.

[wil]

For me I always think Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent...God is in everthing, always present, all knowing and all power...I'm comfortable with that.

Growing up as a kid, Sunday was family day. It consisted of Church and gardening, or a Sunday drive, or gathering by the fire reading. Sunday afternoons were usually a big family meal...and often we played games, chess, backgammon, checkers, monopoly...and many others. Just as often we played cards, bridge, pinnochle, euchre, canasta, gin, rummy500...and many others.

I remember while practicing for a play in Jr. High one Sunday...those in the cast not currently on stage were playing a game of cards..I was one of them. The director caught us and was incensed. Not because we weren't studying our lines or watching the rehearsal...but because we were playing cards on a Sunday, blasphemy, heretics we were.

We must all accept that some will think it ok, some will think it divine, some will think it sacreligious, and some won't accept that we should accept.

Me, I still think Sunday is the day for God and Family...and cards are ok.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

The use of divination as a means to "communicate" with angels is not uncommon. One source outrightly encourages its readers to employ rune stones, tarot cards, I Ching coins, palmistry, and astrology. "Allow your inner knowing self to lead you to the right oracle," the authors write, "and trust that an angel will meet you there."

According to the Bible, however, whatever ‘meets you there’ certainly is not one of God’s angels. Why? Because divination stands in open defiance of God, and true worshipers—in heaven and on earth—have nothing to do with it. Why, in Israel divination was a capital offense! "Everybody doing these things is something detestable to Jehovah," the Law stated.—Deuteronomy 13:1-5; 18:10-12.

For the most part I agree. But there are some that do things that have nothing to do for profit, nothing to do for self grandeurising, and no intention of messing with God's ideal of how things should work. However, they understand things the rest of us do not.

I don't put them in the category that you seem to place them in. So, I don't know about those types of people.

v/r

Q

[Thomas]

This opens up a whole range of questions.

The short answer is that people should stay away from all forms of divination, mainly because they have no idea of quite what they are opening themselves up to.

If you look at ancient cultures, such arts were not practiced by everybody (as everybody wants to today) but by skilled practitioners who have undergone training and testing - Scriers, seers, oracles, readers, shamen ... nowadays everybody wants to be whatever they want, and assume they have the right and the ability just because they want to.

Look at it another way - I want to be a brain surgeon. I've read the books and seen the video. I have a great enthusiasm for the topic. Can I operate on you?

So why do peoplke gamble with their psychic health in a more irresponsible manner than going to see a quack doctor?

By the way - there was a case here in the UK of a highly skilled brain surgeon with an amazing track record who was discovered to have no medical qualifications whatsoever - he was found out when someone saw a signature on a letter of recommemndation was a forgery, so it can be done!

Take a look at:
"Meditation on the Tarot - A Journey into Christian Hermeticism"

Probably the most profound book on the Tarot there is - but the Tarot as a teaching tool, not a divination device.

Every form of divination opens you up to the unseen worlds, and there is more darkness there than light, and ignorance is no protection.

Check out succubus, incubus.

Not until one has a wide and working knowledge of the physical, psychic and pneumatic realms - and the differences and distinctions - should any endeavour be undertaken.

And why, precisely, is it at all necessary? There are far more profound and far-reaching methods.

Mostly, it's the blind leading the blind.

Thomas