Christians

Manji2012 · 08-06-2008, 09:23 AM

There is something that I have to know about the world and Christianity; my questions is:

Do the vast majority of Christians world wide, Protestant and Catholic, believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, never sinned, performed miracles, died on the cross but resurrected, bodily ascended into Heaven, sits at the right hand of God, died for our sins, and if you do not believe this, if you are a Buddhist, you will be going to hell because, Jesus is the only way on to the father?

Do most Christians in American and around the the entire world, the contemporary widely accepted, widely believed Christianity, that this, "Dogma" or "Creed", if it be lawful to call it that, Most Christians believe this?

Do most Christians believe that, regardless of reading the Bible and being able to say hey, "This is not Biblical". Despite that being the case, most Christians do believe that Jesus died for our sins and people who do not accept Jesus and decided to follow the teachings of the Buddha instead, will be going hell, according to their belief, am I correct?

17th Angel · 08-06-2008, 09:37 AM

How do you determin what a christian is? And then how do you confirm the majority?

I would lean to say "Yeah -every- christian believes jesus died for our sins." But do they? christianity the word, is becoming like Paganism the word.. It defines so many, many groups that differ here and there but are connected by a few loose connections... That is how I see christianity. Lots of groups, and even more opinions, views, values, norms, traditions, traits, dogmas, laws, whatever...... You even as crazy as it sounds get debates, arguments, power struggles, populairty contests within the same group between its members....... So I don't think we can Say "they all agree on this" Or even fathom the majority :/ But I know we can say quite easily "they don't -all- agree with that. Or the Majroity doesn't agree with that" Does majority mean somethings right?

seattlegal · 08-06-2008, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex P

How do you determine what a christian is? And then how do you confirm the majority?

Jesus said:

John 13:34-35
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

I would say that this would open up Christianity to many who don't consider themselves "Christian," and would exclude many who do consider themselves "Christian."

mee · 08-06-2008, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Jesus said:

John 13:34-35

34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

mee has found those disciples , and now i know who Jesus disciples are. and they are from all nations

its JEHOVAHS WITNESSES

and they are in unity

17th Angel · 08-06-2008, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Jesus said:

John 13:34-35

34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

I would say that this would open up Christianity to many who don't consider themselves "Christian," and would exclude many who do consider themselves "Christian."

Yeah, you'd be suprised.... Jesus said many things... Doesn't seem to matter to a fair few....

mee · 08-06-2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex P

Yeah, you'd be suprised.... Jesus said many things... Doesn't seem to matter to a fair few....

very true

mixing divinely inspired Bible truth and human philosophy, many have fell into a trap.

Let us therefore take to heart the Scriptural warning against "paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons.

1 Timothy 4:1.

i am glad to say that Jehovahs witnesses have not fell into any manmade doctrines as many have .

Jesus said that he is "God’s Son" and that the "Father sent me forth," Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that God is greater than Jesus. (John 10:36; 6:57)
Jesus himself acknowledged: "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28; 8:28)
Jehovahs witnesses do not believe that Jesus is equal with the Father, as the Trinity doctrine says.
Rather, they believe that he was created by God and that he is subordinate to Him.—Colossians 1:15; 1 Corinthians 11:3.

but as you mentioned, it does not seem to matter to many what Jesus said and taught.

Nick_A · 08-06-2008, 01:09 PM

Catholics have their peculiarities as do protestants and other forms of Christendom having devolved to become primarily part of secular societal life differing in beliefs.. Christianity is something else.

Quote:

"In the Church, considered as a social organism, the mysteries inevitably degenerate into beliefs." Simone Weil

When discussing Christendom you refer to its beliefs. when discussing Christianity, the question is for example, how to ponder, to pray, or achieve the attention of the heart.

Christianity is concerned with process leading towards revelation while Christendom is concerned with beliefs.

Manji2012 · 08-06-2008, 07:29 PM

It is nice to see that there are people that do not believe in those miracles as the only way to be "Saved" but, I know most Christians do believe that.

When I say most Christians, you can not include Jehovah's witness, and Mormons will exclude them. They are the "Odd" ones. Sometimes, Catholics are treated that way too but, the Christians in the world believe you have to be "Saved" to get salvation.

The Church next to my block believes that I am sure. I just know they do. I will ask them and the pastor to find out.

Okay, every Christian I met believes you gotta be saved. I have seen this over and over and over again. A police officer that works at the same area I do, his parents were Christians missionaries in Ethiopia. He found out I was a Buddhist and confronted me about how it is important to believe in Jesus to be saved. He talked about Jesus' virgin birth and that he Died for my sins on the cross. He told me about the "Original Sin" of Adam &Eve.

Another co-worker, Jordon, Goes to a Bible college, believes that you gotta be "Saved". Another Co-worker, Malleisah, you gotta be "Saved". Another two other Christians, David and Zen, I used to go to their church in my greener years. I asked them what they believe and they still accord with John Piper. Yup, you gotta be saved. Jesus is the only way. Buddhists will go to hell eventually. THey believe that.

Okay, now there are some exceptions. My co-worker Marty Reed, is a Christian and he told me Buddhist is just as valid. I then asked him, "I see, that's nice. So, your dad is a pastor right?" he says, "Yes, my dad is a pastor." I then said, "What does he think about your opinion of Buddhism being just as valid?" Marty Reed's reply was, "He would disagree with me and tell me Jesus is the only way."

You see? The Pastor son does not agree but that established church agrees Jesus is the only way and the Buddhists go to hell. Sorry, the institution is the vast majority.

Another Christian, Hiwot Waldayes, "Told me that if you try your best to be a good person then you will not go to hell." I then said to her, "For more or for less, I agree with you but, your church and pastor does not." She said nothing in reply.

Another Christian, Molly Ahlef, does not care for Christians to be Jesus Freaks and into the "Saved" kind of thing but, when I ask her to use the Bible to defend her point of view of Christianity she was unable to do that. I was like thinking to myself, "I agree with you for the most part Molly but, I can not take you seriously since you can not even defend your convictions or beliefs."

So, yeah, there are some who think differently about jesus and Christianity but, I cannot take them seriously because, they can not even defend their own ideas.

For years I have walked out in the city and have been confronted by multitudes of Professing Christians that Buddhists go to hell and Christians go to heaven because they believe Jesus died for our sins and that is the only way.

Just look at Oprah and Eckhart Tolle and how Christians responded to that. Eckhart Tolle brings all that good spirituality and Buddhisim, which, jesus was mostly about, for more or for less, but, look at how Christians will say, that stuff is garbage it is false and Jesus is the only way.

The same thing again!

Well, I am gonna go to all the churches in my city and keep asking all the Christians I can find, watch, all of em are gonna tell me the same thing. Jesus is the only way, Buddhists go to hell.

I bet my neighbor, My burgers, believes that. Watch, I just know it.

path_of_one · 08-06-2008, 08:41 PM

I'd refer to the recent PEW research. Something around 75% of Christians believed that their religion was not the only way to salvation.

So to answer your question, based on the recent research, we can say that approximately 75% of Christians in the United States do not believe you have to be Christian (i.e., conforming to mainstream Christian beliefs, which you enumerate) to have salvation.

I agree with that. I don't think it's about religious affiliation. Salvation is a gift. The evidence of salvation is life in the Spirit, which is revealed in the fruits of the Spirit... ultimately, revealed in love for one's fellow beings.

Quahom1 · 08-07-2008, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manji2012

There is something that I have to know about the world and Christianity; my questions is:

Do the vast majority of Christians world wide, Protestant and Catholic, believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, never sinned, performed miracles, died on the cross but resurrected, bodily ascended into Heaven, sits at the right hand of God, died for our sins, and if you do not believe this, if you are a Buddhist, you will be going to hell because, Jesus is the only way on to the father?

Do most Christians in American and around the the entire world, the contemporary widely accepted, widely believed Christianity, that this, "Dogma" or "Creed", if it be lawful to call it that, Most Christians believe this?

Do most Christians believe that, regardless of reading the Bible and being able to say hey, "This is not Biblical". Despite that being the case, most Christians do believe that Jesus died for our sins and people who do not accept Jesus and decided to follow the teachings of the Buddha instead, will be going hell, according to their belief, am I correct?

Yes and no to your first question. Second, Christ said "none can get to the Father, but through me". That leaves a very wide area of road open for getting to heaven, or as some put it, paradise. But what good is heaven if you can't get in to see the Father, unless you go through the Son, First?

17th Angel · 08-07-2008, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path_of_one

Salvation is a gift. .

And it's not the only gift... Sometimes though we can be like spolit children at christmas and not fully appreciate some of the gifts we are given...

BlaznFattyz · 08-07-2008, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manji2012

Do the vast majority of Christians world wide, Protestant and Catholic, believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, never sinned, performed miracles, died on the cross but resurrected, bodily ascended into Heaven, sits at the right hand of God, died for our sins, and if you do not believe this, if you are a Buddhist, you will be going to hell because, Jesus is the only way on to the father?

As a christian i can tell you that all the above statements regarding christianity are correct. The answer to your question at the end is not a simple one, nor is it one that men like you and I can give a definitive answer to, because it has much to do with the heart that only God knows, and it has to do with many social factors that are out of ones control that have blocked out the gospel, and it also has to do with the Spirit and what it revealed and what was accepted or rejected.

mee · 08-07-2008, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick_A

Christendom is concerned with beliefs.

beliefs based on what? it should be based on what the bible really teaches

and what Jesus really taught .

but it seems to mee that christendom base their beliefs on manmade doctrines instead. hmmmmm interesting

Francis king · 08-08-2008, 02:16 PM

the apostles creed... I cannot say it anymore in church, in full.. I skip the parts I don't agree with... (the virgin, the rising again bit...etc) is that wrong?

Quahom1 · 08-08-2008, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis king

the apostles creed... I cannot say it anymore in church, in full.. I skip the parts I don't agree with... (the virgin, the rising again bit...etc) is that wrong?

Well, the Nicene creed is a declaration of the Christian faith, as a whole. To deny the virgin birth, places Jesus in position of extraordinary man, not God, and implies that he was born into sin. The denial of the resurection of Jesus after death, clearly removes any Christianity from the faith.

So, I say yes, that is wrong (if one is insisting they are still Christian).