Christ's Kingdom? - Page 5

Faithfulservant · 08-18-2005, 08:56 PM

Luke 4:7-8
7 Therefore, if You will worship before me, all will be Yours." 8 And Jesus answered and said to him, "Get behind Me, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.' "

Matthew 4:8
10 Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.'

Ok well my bible says that we are to only "bow down" or show obesience or worship the Lord our God... Straight from the mouth of Christ.

Quote:

Throughout the Holy Scriptures it is not possible to identify Jehovah and Jesus as being the same individual

Jesus also said that He and His Father are one.

Of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ (tou megalou qeou kai swthroß Ihsou Cristou). This is the necessary meaning of the one article with qeou and swthroß just as in 2 Peter 1:1,11.

1:1 Simeon Peter, a slave and an apostle of Jesus Christ: To those who have obtained a faith of equal privilege with ours through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ. 1:11 For in this way, entry into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be richly supplied to you. Im using Robertsons for translations

Westcott and Hort read Cristou Ihsou. Always is interesting when only one translation uses one thing and the other translators translate it the same way... Red flags.

Faithfulservant · 08-18-2005, 08:58 PM

Quote:

yes ,Jesus is a mighty God

So do JW's teach more than one God?

Faithfulservant · 08-18-2005, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

regarding hebrews 1;8 In many translations, either in the main text or in the margin, Hebrews 1:9 reads, God, your God, anointed you. This makes it clear that the one addressed in verse eight is not God, but one who worships God and is anointed by him.

With good reason, therefore, NWT and a number of other translations render Hebrews 1:8 as, "God is your throne." (See An American Translation, Moffatt; also the marginal reading in American Standard Version, Revised Standard Version and The New English Bible.) This makes it clear that the Son, Jesus Christ, has a God who is higher than he is.

NKJV But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.

RSV But of the Son he says, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, the righteous scepter is the scepter of thy kingdom.

ASV but of the Son [he saith,] Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever; And the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

NLT But to his Son he says, "Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever. Your royal power is expressed in righteousness.

WEB but of the Son he says, "Your throne, God, is forever and ever; The scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

(The Message) But he says to the Son, You're God, and on the throne for good; your rule makes everything right.

They all say the same thing......

Faithfulservant · 08-18-2005, 09:40 PM

Isaiah 43:11 says "I, even I, am the Lord [Yahweh], and apart from me there is no savior". A claim to being a savior is, in itself, a claim to deity, and there is only one Savior - God. Many verses in the New Testament refer to Jesus as our Savior (Luke 2:11; John 4:42). Since Jesus is our Savior, and Isaiah tells us apart from God there is no savior.

an additional note on Titus 2:13
Greek scholars will also argue that Titus 2:13 refers to 1 person. Greek scholars, based on detailed studies of identical sentence constructions in the Greek New Testament, have a guiding principle or rule for interpreting such constructions: When two nouns in the same case are connected by the Greek word 'and,' and the first noun is preceded by the article 'the,' and the second noun is not preceded by the article, the second noun refers to the same person or thing to which the first noun refers, and is a further description of it". In Titus 2:13, two nouns - "God" and "Savior" - are joined together with the Greek word for "and," and a definite article ("the") is placed only in front of the first noun ("God"). So, the sentence literally reads: "the great God and Savior of us." .

mee · 08-19-2005, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Luke 4:7-8
7 Therefore, if You will worship before me, all will be Yours." 8 And Jesus answered and said to him, "Get behind Me, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.' "

Matthew 4:8
10 Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.'

Ok well my bible says that we are to only "bow down" or show obesience or worship the Lord our God... Straight from the mouth of Christ.

Jesus also said that He and His Father are one.

Of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ (tou megalou qeou kai swthroß Ihsou Cristou). This is the necessary meaning of the one article with qeou and swthroß just as in 2 Peter 1:1,11.

1:1 Simeon Peter, a slave and an apostle of Jesus Christ: To those who have obtained a faith of equal privilege with ours through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ. 1:11 For in this way, entry into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be richly supplied to you. Im using Robertsons for translations

Westcott and Hort read Cristou Ihsou. Always is interesting when only one translation uses one thing and the other translators translate it the same way... Red flags.

yes ,Jehovah God and Jesus christ are one in purpose ,and are in unity of thought .Jesus came to do his Fathers will on the earth .Jesus knew that the worship of Jehovah God is who should be worshiped ,not himself ,thats why he told satan that it is Jehovah who should be worshiped. did not Jesus say ,it is Jehovah God you should worship

Now Jesus, full of holy spirit, turned away from the Jordan, and he was led about by the spirit in the wilderness for forty days, while being tempted by the Devil. Furthermore, he ate nothing in those days, and so, when they were concluded, he felt hungry. At this the Devil said to him: "If you are a son of God, tell this stone to become a loaf of bread." But Jesus replied to him: "It is written, ‘Man must not live by bread alone.’"

So he brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time; and the Devil said to him: "I will give you all this authority and the glory of them, because it has been delivered to me, and to whomever I wish I give it. You, therefore, if you do an act of worship before me, it will all be yours." In reply Jesus said to him: "It is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.....yes, the son of God Jesus christ did not fail to tell satan who the true God was .Jesus was having non of satans temptations to turn him away from Jehovah God .notice that satan was offering Jesus all the kingdoms of the world, so Jesus knew that satan was the ruler of the world with control over the kingdoms, Jesus never said to satan those kingdoms are not yours to offer me , he knew that satan was the ruler of the world(1 john 5;19)and Jesus also knew that it was not the time for his kingdom that was yet in the future in line with Jehovahs purpose

mee · 08-19-2005, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

So do JW's teach more than one God?

there is only one Almighty God
That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah You alone are the most high over all the earth.....psalm 83;18 and this Almighty God sent his son to earth for us

For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life....john 3;16

Faithfulservant · 08-19-2005, 08:26 PM

Ok.. so they do teach that there are other Gods... Just that Jehovah is the head honcho God.. weird.. I thought they believed like I do that there is only one God. Need to reconsider what I have always thought about JW's. So Jesus is a Mighty God but Jehovah is the Almighty God. How many other Gods are there in JW beliefs?

Quahom1 · 08-19-2005, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Ok.. so they do teach that there are other Gods... Just that Jehovah is the head honcho God.. weird.. I thought they believed like I do that there is only one God. Need to reconsider what I have always thought about JW's. So Jesus is a Mighty God but Jehovah is the Almighty God. How many other Gods are there in JW beliefs?

Easy there Faithful. Jesus is God, not a god...

Faithfulservant · 08-19-2005, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

yes ,Jesus is a mighty God but he is not the Almighty God

Q, I was directing that towards mee. Sorry if I lost some people in the past few pages.. :P

mee · 08-20-2005, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Ok.. so they do teach that there are other Gods... Just that Jehovah is the head honcho God.. weird.. I thought they believed like I do that there is only one God. Need to reconsider what I have always thought about JW's. So Jesus is a Mighty God but Jehovah is the Almighty God. How many other Gods are there in JW beliefs?

JW recogonizethat Jesus Christ is the Almighty Gods first-born son , and this first-born son has the legal right to be the king of Gods kingdom.

(Luke 1:32) This one (Jesus Christ)will be great and will be called Son of the Most High; and Jehovah God will give him the throne of David his father.....yes as we all know Jesus was born in the line of David ,and he has the legal right to sit on Jehovahs throne.....but the question is do we recognize that son?

(Matthew 27:54) But the army officer and those with him watching over Jesus, when they saw the earthquake and the things happening, grew very much afraid, saying: "Certainly this was God’s Son."

(John 1:49) Na·than´a·el answered him: "Rabbi, you are the Son of God, you are King of Israel

Quahom1 · 08-20-2005, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

JW recogonizethat Jesus Christ is the Almighty Gods first-born son , and this first-born son has the legal right to be the king of Gods kingdom.

Ok! That is an opinion, I can respect.

v/r

Q

Faithfulservant · 08-20-2005, 07:50 PM

BlaznFattyz · 08-21-2005, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

(Luke 1:32) This one (Jesus Christ)will be great and will be called Son of the Most High; and Jehovah God will give him the throne of David his father.....yes as we all know Jesus was born in the line of David ,and he has the legal right to sit on Jehovahs throne.....but the question is do we recognize that son?

im not sure what bible you are reading mee, but i dont see why you are adding words to it. there is no word jehova in any of the bibles i have seen on this and other verses you are "quoting".

tell me.. do JW's change this verse?! 1Jo 5:7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

mee · 08-21-2005, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

im not sure what bible you are reading mee, but i dont see why you are adding words to it. there is no word jehova in any of the bibles i have seen on this and other verses you are "quoting".

tell me.. do JW's change this verse?! 1Jo 5:7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

so who do you think gave Jesus the throne ,there is only one Almighty God qualified to say that Jesus has the throne.also if you read the footnotes about the other scripture that you mention it will enlighten you as to the accurate way to translate this verse, as it is a recognized fact among many translaters that the verse in question is spurious

Quahom1 · 08-21-2005, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

so who do you think gave Jesus the throne ,there is only one Almighty God qualified to say that Jesus has the throne.also if you read the footnotes about the other scripture that you mention it will enlighten you as to the accurate way to translate this verse, as it is a recognized fact among many translaters that the verse in question is spurious

That may be a general opinion of certain translators, but not a recognized "fact". Nor is it mainstream consensous.

So, the older bibles have counterfeit verses in them, and your newer one does not...is that correct?

Do you realize how presumptuous that sounds? Rather insulting.

v/r

Q