Clean and Unclean Animals - Page 2

Snoopy · 01-17-2007, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bananabrain

except after a kebab.

*BAAARP*

b'shalom

bananabrain

Hi,

Another reason to be a veggie! Sheesh, how many does a guy need!

s.

Dondi · 01-17-2007, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

Three concepts that each in their own right worthy of much discussion.

live fruitarians, the book of creation which describes the book of creation, and time

Could you elaborate?

wil · 01-17-2007, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BB

in the garden of eden, humans were vegetarian - in fact, they would have picked their food off the trees (well, virtually all the trees).

"G!D Looked into the Torah and Created the world."

i wouldn't worry about it if i were you, but this should at least give you some idea that when we talk about time in the early part of genesis, we aren't talking about time in any literal sense.

links here planted by wil, not by in BB's original quote and not intended by BB..

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

Three concepts that each in their own right worthy of much discussion.

live fruitarians, the book of creation which describes the book of creation, and time

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

Could you elaborate?

ok added links into BB's quote

Francis king · 01-19-2007, 12:57 PM

what makes me laugh, about this whole- unclean and clean foods thing, is this.... hindu's aren't allowed to eat beef, cos of cows being sacred, etc, jews won't eat pork, and muslims won't eat lamb.. (I think), so, dya think maybe God was trying to make sure we all had meat? just a thought...lol... on a more serious note, I thought that cloven hoofed animals were supposedly dirtier than the others becuase of their feet, and the poo that gets stuck in them...?

bananabrain · 01-19-2007, 01:25 PM

it's not about hygiene:

MyJewishLearning.com - Daily Life: Kashrut
Judaism 101: Kashrut: Jewish Dietary Laws

b'shalom

bananabrain

juantoo3 · 01-23-2007, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoopy

(*BAAARP* -bb)

Another reason to be a veggie! Sheesh, how many does a guy need!

s.

Ah, now...I've known some veggies to announce themselves from the other end...beans and broccoli come to mind...the ol' left cheek sneak...the green fog...silent but deadly...

Prober · 01-24-2007, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Ah, now...I've known some veggies to announce themselves from the other end...beans and broccoli come to mind...the ol' left cheek sneak...the green fog...silent but deadly...

That's no lie! I'm thinking of my brother's "Big Salad" heaped with avocado, chives, carrots, broccoli, zuchini (sp) and pepperocinis!

P.S. A little ginger in the beans goes a long way to acheiving silence.

Francis king · 01-26-2007, 03:32 PM

cheers for the links, banana.... kashrut/kosher... I read it as... we dont eat kosher cos of hygene, etc, but cos the Torah says so...?

inhumility · 02-02-2007, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

I'm confused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Leviticus 11 forbid the eating of certain animals, deeming them unclean?
Yet here, it appeared that God lifted that ban.
It occurred to me that Deuteronomy was given primarily to the second generation of Jews coming out of Egypt, who would inherit the Promised land, which was denied the first generation due to unbelief and disobedience for not believing Joshua and Caleb concerning the giants in the land.
So my thinking is that the laws in Leviticus were really for the time spent in the 40 year wilderness and had much to do with healthy living in regard to dietary consumption. So then by the time the second generation entered the Promised Land, there was less danger in eating such animals. Else, why would God allow the eating of both clean and unclean animals in Deuteronomy 15?
Am I missing something here?

Hi
To me there is no confusion, and the passage of Deuteronomy 15 has not been correctly comprehended . I first quote from the laws in the Leviticus chapter 11 as under:
11:1 God spoke to Moses and Aaron, telling them
11:2 to speak to the Israelites, and convey the following to them:
Of all the animals in the world, these are the ones that you may eat:
11:7 The pig shall be unclean to you although it has a true hoof which is cloven, since it does not chew its cud.
11:8 Do not eat the flesh of any of these animals. [At this time]* do not touch their carcasses, since they are unclean to you.
{*My Urdu Catholic Bible does not contain the words “[At this time]”}.
Further I have to mention that the pig has been forbidden as an outward mark of the Covenant. So if one believes the permanence of Covenant in Torah; one cannot eat pig permanently. It was not forbidden temporarily. }
Now I quote Deuteronomy for my daily bible reading and I came across this passage from chapter 12:
15 Notwithstanding thou mayest kill and eat flesh within all thy gates, after all the desire of thy soul, according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which He hath given thee; the unclean and the clean may* eat thereof, as of the gazelle, and as of the hart.
{My Urdu Catholic Bible mentions here the word “tu” meaning “you” hinting here that the address here is to clean or unclean persons; not the forbidden animals. It may also be mentioned here that forbidden animals cannot be sacrificed in any case so definitely these not have been covered here, as the context doe not allow it. inhumility}
16 Only ye shall not eat the blood; thou shalt pour it out upon the earth as water.
And again, it is repeated later in the chapter:
21 If the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to put His name there be too far from thee, then thou shalt kill of thy herd and of thy flock, which the LORD hath given thee, as I have commanded thee, and thou shalt eat within thy gates, after all the desire of thy soul.
22 Howbeit as the gazelle and as the hart is eaten, so thou shalt eat thereof; the unclean and the clean may eat thereof alike.
{My Urdu Catholic Bible mentions here the word “tu” meaning “you” hinting here that the address here is to clean or unclean persons; not the forbidden animals.}
23 Only be steadfast in not eating the blood; for the blood is the life; and thou shalt not eat the life with the flesh.
24 Thou shalt not eat it; thou shalt pour it out upon the earth as water.
(Source: JPS 1917 Edition)
This is again repeated in chapter 15:19-23, and it becomes clearer, that only clean animals have been mentioned which are to be sacrificed as an outward mark of the Covenant.If one believes in the permanance of the Covenant; then pig is forbidden for one permanantly.
This is my opinion with arguments; others could believe as they deem correct. No compulsion whatsoever.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam

Dondi · 02-02-2007, 01:15 PM

Thank you, inhumility. You've confirmed what BB explained earlier. I think I got it straight now.

inhumility · 02-04-2007, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

Thank you, inhumility. You've confirmed what BB explained earlier. I think I got it straight now.

But I have a little question, as I quoted from the laws in the Leviticus chapter 11 from the Judaism Bible :
11:1 God spoke to Moses and Aaron, telling them
11:2 to speak to the Israelites, and convey the following to them:
Of all the animals in the world, these are the ones that you may eat:
11:7 The pig shall be unclean to you although it has a true hoof which is cloven, since it does not chew its cud.
11:8 Do not eat the flesh of any of these animals. [At this time]* do not touch their carcasses, since they are unclean to you.
Unquote

My Urdu Catholic NTBible does not contain the words “[At this time]”.
Is it an omission of the Christian OTBible?
Further I have to mention that the pig had been forbidden as an outward mark of the Covenant. So if one believes the permanence of Covenant in Torah; one cannot eat pig permanently. It was not forbidden temporarily.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi - a peaceful faith in Islam