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Old 01-28-2008, 10:44 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: CONCEPT OF GOD IN Islam and Hinduism

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Comparative religion is an interesting subject as well as it can turn as boomerang.
So, it is better to move slowly with firm step.
Oneness of God , the one and only God (Allah) is the central focus of the thread.
I absolutely love discussing comparative religion/mythology. I tend to see religion from a mythicist perspective along with mystical attitude. I do know some about Hinduism and some about Sufism, but my knowledge is far from immense.

I'm totally for Oneness of God. In fact, I'm for oneness of everything. I find the various pan- philosophies intriguing(pantheism, panpsychism, etc). Some Hindus believe in pantheism, and I'd suspect that some Sufi mystics might also.

Quote:
I assume this is a Christian Catholic forum and hoisted from Europe or USA.
Today, Islam facing major discrepancy with Christianity.
Most interesting, all are using the name of religion but the hidden agenda is different.
Is there any war , why others do not agree in incarnation of Jesus as God?
Is there any war , why we do not accept I am Omega I am Alpha?
I don't know where this forum is hoisted from, but I severely doubt its being run by Catholics. I was raised in New Thought Christianity, but have been influenced by so many different faiths and views that I mainly consider myself a spiritual agnostic these days.

I dislike strong fundamentalists of any religion, but I have no particular opinion about most religions. In particular, my knowledge of Islam is so meagre that I wouldn't presume to have an opinion beyond a political one about terrorists, but given the right conditions terrorists will arise in any fundamentalist religion. American fundamentalists are peaceful simply because they have life too easy to want to revolt against the secular society.

As for incarnated deities and monotheism, I have no major issue with these. I prefer a monistic non-dual philosophy, but I do sometimes find it helpful to think about spirituality in terms of a personal monotheistic deity.
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:37 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: CONCEPT OF GOD IN Islam and Hinduism

al Quran, surah Noor: God is the Light of the heavens and the earth:the likeness of his light is as a niche wherein is a lamp (the lamp is a glass, the glass as it were a glittering star) kindled from a blessed tree, an olive that is neither of the east nor of the west whose oil wellnigh shine, even if no fire touched it: Light upon light (God guides to his light whom He will).

Of course I dont understand Arabic- this is a translation provided by my friend who can.

interpretation: this Surah is alway interpreted as a parable, usually as follows: in this verse imagery is used 'as if' to convey both the ineffable nature of the godhead and also the 'peace' (salaam) which comes by 'seeing' the 'light' of this godhead. it is also meant to convey the incomprehensible transcendence and 'otherness' of God. i am being brief because you would be familiar with various interpretations of this surah or would be able to find out from the sources from where you have been copy-pasting stuff.

however, what you will never know is that this surah is one of the most beautiful description of the vision of godhead that appears before the closed eyes when one is in deep meditation. the sufis know of it i am sure but not the people who spout vitriol about how great islam is and how irrelevant other paths to spirituality are.

similarly, the other religious texts in general and the ancient hindu texts in particular are full of condensed symbolic descriptions of experiences from the depth of meditation. few can understand them.

if you are interested in outward labored mentations on the 'logical' understanding of God and which 'book' is the greatest etc, it is your choice and I respect that. there is merit in it. it is good mental exercise to say the least.

but if you are interested in God, there are only two ways I know of that can be of help (there would undoubtedly be infinite ways of reaching out to that which is infinite but these are the the two ways i can tell you about). one is to take yourself to a secluded spot and spent eons looking into the substance of your mind- like buddha, christ and many others beside who are lesser known did. as long as it takes, till the mind falls away and you are able to see that which lies behind, that which is described in the Surah Noor. second is to find a person who has already seen that light and fall on his feet. beg him to show you the path he knows and to help you walk on that path. there are such people out there but you wont find them advertising themselves. forget whether he is a hindu, muslim, buddhist or christian. for such a man has crossed over to the other side. he is beyond religions. he is same as HIM.

as for the 'concept' of god in any religion. it is impossible to have any concept. mind and intellect are limited, they essentially cannot contain the concept of infinite. just like a small vessel can hold some water....the same substance that the oceans are made of, but cannot contain the ocean itself. we can only allude to 'God' and that too only in a very small part indeed.

one can learn a lot from reading a little, or learn nothing from reading a lot........

om shanti
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Old 02-01-2008, 12:17 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: CONCEPT OF GOD IN Islam and Hinduism

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I wish to raise a complaint.... Now I am not one to complain but, there is no justice on this site... Islamis4u, fair enough maybe copying and pasting, I do not know as I am not sat looking over his/her shoulder, however you threaten to remove his/her "posting privileges" yet if I may give an example; Mee has been here for what a year or so? What has he done BUT copy and paste, yet there is no warning to him or anything to make him change his attitude and way of posting on this site, this Muslim has been here not even a month and instantly you are making demands on him/her which you do not place on others.... Can you understand how I feel I -must- complain about this? I'll PM you also just to make sure you do not miss this post....

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17.
I thank what you said i may not be very old here but i have seen many posts which hurts our feelings but i Have A Dialogue with them may be i agree that im doing wrong and i will talk not copy. having said so im again said same thing in other post i do not know every Mod and Admin is singling me out of all other.

Having said so i would say that i would not be copying anything again okay!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 02-01-2008, 01:09 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: CONCEPT OF GOD IN Islam and Hinduism

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I thank what you said i may not be very old here but i have seen many posts which hurts our feelings but i Have A Dialogue with them may be i agree that im doing wrong and i will talk not copy. having said so im again said same thing in other post i do not know every Mod and Admin is singling me out of all other.

Having said so i would say that i would not be copying anything again okay!!!!!!!!!!
One thing that can help is that when you do paste something from elsewhere, make sure to link to the site or at least mention where its coming from. That way people know where you're getting your ideas from, and they can go check out the context you were taking it from. In this thread, it seemed obvious that you were cutting and pasting, but you made no mention until your fourth post that it was coming from your own site.

Also, your first two posts were fairly long. If you're going to paste, then maybe paste in smaller chunks. I've found that many people don't take the time to read long posts especially when its something that takes a fair amount of thought to understand.

I was a bit confused by your initial post. It wasn't clear to me what your intentions were or what kind of responses you were looking for. So, if pasting, then give a short introduction to explain why your posting it.
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:24 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: CONCEPT OF GOD IN Islam and Hinduism

This forum is hosted in the UK and is owned by I, Brian.

I,Brian has repeatedly stated that he has no religious affiliation.

metta,

~v
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Old 02-16-2008, 01:52 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: CONCEPT OF GOD IN Islam and Hinduism

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Originally Posted by sangam View Post
al Quran, surah Noor: God is the Light of the heavens and the earth:the likeness of his light is as a niche wherein is a lamp (the lamp is a glass, the glass as it were a glittering star) kindled from a blessed tree, an olive that is neither of the east nor of the west whose oil wellnigh shine, even if no fire touched it: Light upon light (God guides to his light whom He will).

Of course I dont understand Arabic- this is a translation provided by my friend who can.

interpretation: this Surah is alway interpreted as a parable, usually as follows: in this verse imagery is used 'as if' to convey both the ineffable nature of the godhead and also the 'peace' (salaam) which comes by 'seeing' the 'light' of this godhead. it is also meant to convey the incomprehensible transcendence and 'otherness' of God. i am being brief because you would be familiar with various interpretations of this surah or would be able to find out from the sources from where you have been copy-pasting stuff.

however, what you will never know is that this surah is one of the most beautiful description of the vision of godhead that appears before the closed eyes when one is in deep meditation. the sufis know of it i am sure but not the people who spout vitriol about how great islam is and how irrelevant other paths to spirituality are.

similarly, the other religious texts in general and the ancient hindu texts in particular are full of condensed symbolic descriptions of experiences from the depth of meditation. few can understand them.

if you are interested in outward labored mentations on the 'logical' understanding of God and which 'book' is the greatest etc, it is your choice and I respect that. there is merit in it. it is good mental exercise to say the least.

but if you are interested in God, there are only two ways I know of that can be of help (there would undoubtedly be infinite ways of reaching out to that which is infinite but these are the the two ways i can tell you about). one is to take yourself to a secluded spot and spent eons looking into the substance of your mind- like buddha, christ and many others beside who are lesser known did. as long as it takes, till the mind falls away and you are able to see that which lies behind, that which is described in the Surah Noor. second is to find a person who has already seen that light and fall on his feet. beg him to show you the path he knows and to help you walk on that path. there are such people out there but you wont find them advertising themselves. forget whether he is a hindu, muslim, buddhist or christian. for such a man has crossed over to the other side. he is beyond religions. he is same as HIM.

as for the 'concept' of god in any religion. it is impossible to have any concept. mind and intellect are limited, they essentially cannot contain the concept of infinite. just like a small vessel can hold some water....the same substance that the oceans are made of, but cannot contain the ocean itself. we can only allude to 'God' and that too only in a very small part indeed.

one can learn a lot from reading a little, or learn nothing from reading a lot........

om shanti
I do not understood you because you made it so complex for me to understand me English as said above is not so God what i said i wil reply okay!!

If you do not know what is or you do not understand what is meant by something then how could you believe in that religion!!! I do not see anything much complex in your scriptures its easy to understand!!!

Yes you are right about example you gave me the thing is it is clear in the context if you read it!! Suffism is something else and getting basic knowledge of a religion is something else!! if you do not understand the basic teachings of a religion how would you come to know about the religion then!!!
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Old 02-18-2008, 11:35 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: CONCEPT OF GOD IN Islam and Hinduism

Hello Islamis4u...

I will try to answer your question...

Yes, you are right, Hinduism is often thought of as a pantheistic system, and not a monotheistic religion, but a lot of hindu's believe in one God... an Ultimate God, if you like... yes, some hindu's might say that there are 33 thousand gods, but ultimately, they are all just expressions, or incarnations, or avatars, of one God...

Take for example, Krsna...

Some hindu's say Krsna is an avatar, or incarnation, of another God, called Vishnu...

But some other hindu's would say all Gods are an incarnation of Krsna...

Some hindu's see Krsna as a minor deity, mainly because Krsna does not appear in any of the major Vedas or Upanisads, and in an ancient historial sense he appears in around two small unimportant texts from a specific region, and so intellectuals think he was a minor villiage God who became popular over time...

However, if you are a devotee of Krsna, that he does not appear using his real name in the Vedas is unimportant, as all of the other Gods are just emanations of Krsna...

So... although the system is described as pantheistic, it is not always that way....
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Old 05-24-2008, 02:29 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: CONCEPT OF GOD IN Islam and Hinduism

Dear islamis4u,

The concept of God for Hindus does not come from religious texts. We do not rely on books to tell us about God. Ofcourse they do help us, but they are not the final authority.

The concept of God comes from within each one of us and from the the gurus and seers who have come to know God.

God is an individual perception and We all experience God's love and presence in our lives in our own way. It is perfectly okay for us to not believe in God at all, or believe that God is one or even to believe in 33 crore Gods. There is no right or wrong way of knowing God. God does not get offended by our imagination. When we try to reach him, He will come to us in a form that we understand.
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Old 05-24-2008, 10:46 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: CONCEPT OF GOD IN Islam and Hinduism

This subject has entered my mind over the last few years for various reasons. From another perspective... question Islam:

Why does Allah (swt) refer to Allah (swt) as WE in the Qur'an? I have searched the Arabic roots for understanding and I have heard what I view are false reasons from other muslims. There is an I, and there is a WE, and both exist in the Qur'an in first person... albeit paraphrased by the Prophet Muhammud (pbuh). The "WE" in one form used by a group of men is the same "WE" used by Allah (swt) to refer to himself. The Qur'an further teaches the Muslim to say, "WE believe... " When speaking from the Qur'an, or a document, or a group of individuals who are joined together in heart and mind, then saying "WE" begins to make perfect sense when a member speaks outside of the group. However for individuals to then assert their individual, differentiated or independent beliefs upon others, I personally consider it a sin within their mind when they say "WE". When a man says "WE", it reveals to me that the individual thinks that other individuals think the same; however, if the relationship is not really physically there or the individual is merely trying to propagate their individual beliefs, then it is appears to me as a bit of a falsehood. I can also tell the person who copies and pastes (mechanically or intellectually), rather than utilizing their own will and mind, when they use the word "WE". Neither the Prophet Muhammud (pbuh), nor Isa (pbuh), nor any other Abrahamic prophet or messenger ever refers to himself and Allah (swt) together as "WE". At best in Christianity, Jesus (pbuh) in the gospels says, "The Father and I are one"... yet he also differentiates the will of God and the will of Jesus: "I did not come to do my will, but to do my Father's will". Some there view a marriage or relationship, some view god in the flesh, etc... which is a bit of contention between the Abrahamic religions.

So then I pose this question: which is Allah (swt) when Allah (swt) refers to Allah (swt): is it: I, WE, or both?
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Old 05-25-2008, 04:52 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: CONCEPT OF GOD IN Islam and Hinduism

Its majestic we. Very common in Arabic, Persian & Urdu-Hindi. In India, there was a time when everybody called everybody we. Nowadays I/you is more common. But people still use this royal we for honour.

I think in the same way, Eloh becomes Elohim.
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Old 05-25-2008, 06:42 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: CONCEPT OF GOD IN Islam and Hinduism

farhan thank you for providing the commonly exchanged reason.

I question though: Why at the time when everyone allegedly referred to themselves as WE.... did Allah (swt) transgress the royal WE and refer to self as I ?

For example: 2:33, 3:55, 3:56, 4:118, 4:119, 5:12, 5:110, 5:115, 19:9.

I don't know the other languages but Arabic differentiates singular and plural. I see both.
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Old 05-27-2008, 10:03 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: CONCEPT OF GOD IN Islam and Hinduism

Its not that everybody does or doesnt refer to himself in plural. Arabic grammer allows to refer to one self as I, we or he. This is a style of speech, not a transgression, since grammer allows it all. When the topic being talked about is something ordinary (eg,"I am telling you...... ") , a king may refer to himself in 1st person singular. To show some majesty, we can be used (eg, "we are indeed delighted"). To show a lot of majesty, & a little bit of detachment (eg. "whatever you do, it makes no difference to the holly one"), third person singular can also be used.

All languages (except chinese may be) differentiate between singular & plural. But at the same time, we are trained by our societies to decode the meaning in different ways, so our brains register words differently. I gave the example of Urdu because thats my native language. Other than plural of majesty, we also have plural of honour. Interestingly that plural of majesty/honour can easily be changed into plural of ridicule/contempt with a slight change of tone. But it isnt a big deal for us since our brains are trained to pick & process all that information at the sub-conscious level. For a mind trained in English, all that implicit data creates a lot of problem.
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Old 07-04-2009, 06:33 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: CONCEPT OF GOD IN Islam and Hinduism

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Dear islamis4u,

The concept of God for Hindus does not come from religious texts. We do not rely on books to tell us about God. Ofcourse they do help us, but they are not the final authority.
Then you say that your holy books are wrong?
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Old 07-04-2009, 08:59 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: CONCEPT OF GOD IN Islam and Hinduism

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Then you say that your holy books are wrong?
Of course he does not...are you stupid? He says they offer guidance...not law.... can you get your head round that?
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Old 07-04-2009, 10:51 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: CONCEPT OF GOD IN Islam and Hinduism

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Then you say that your holy books are wrong?
Islam propagated the Quran very early on to all Muslims [well, the ones who could read];this was helped by ilm, or the 'knowledge' industry, when Islam were reproducing/translating all the ancient texts when Europe was in the 'dark' ages,whereas the ancient sacred Hindu texts was always in the hands of the practicing priests, the Brahmins who appropriated the power in the sacred chants to themselves. This revealed authority is called Shruti.

However there is also the authority of traditonal handed down 'revealed' knowledge, but of human composition, called Smriti and it is this that most Hindus are familiar, since these were handed down by storytellers, much like the poets in Arabia were revered pre-Quran as bringers of truth.

This developed into Sampradaya, oral tradition centered around a guru generation to generation, not necessarily from a Brahmin family, but like sufis who realised they had found a way to reach the divine without the priesthood.

Unlike Islam, which like the other Abrahamic religions, clearly demarcated the Creator from the creatures and creation, Hinduism believes in Satkaryavada, 'the effect pre exists in the cause', therefore no creation ex nihilo, nothing can come from nothing [heres nothing again!].

They believe there is many paths [margas or yogas] to g#d or ultimate Reality - jnana, knowledge [ultimate aim to detach eternal self from temporary one]
- karma [detachment of ones self from ones actions, or putting ones actions to the services of ones manifestation of the one g#d].
- bhakti [devotion, not identity or union but nearness, ie through love]
- raja ['royal', essentially path of mediation though above paths may well include meditation as well as body yoga as a means of alignment]
[above para from uwacadweb.uwyo.edu/religionet/er/hinduism]

'the way to devotion is as good as the way of knowledge, but as long as g#d keeps the feeling of ego in us, it is easier to follow the path of devotion' Ramakrishna
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