Could this be a Mistake? - Page 6

Conscience · 04-22-2005, 07:04 PM

The Bible is clear that God had a plan to redeem mankind before he even made mankind. That plan had to be a perfect sacrifice, which was alluded to in the story of Abraham and Isacc. God provided made himself the sacrifice. The Bible is clear that our God is the Redeemer. The Bible is clear that Jesus is God! I for one will proclaim it; even unto death. I'll probably say more after I eat lunch - Im hungry over here!

Quahom1 · 04-22-2005, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conscience

The Bible is clear that God had a plan to redeem mankind before he even made mankind. That plan had to be a perfect sacrifice, which was alluded to in the story of Abraham and Isacc. God provided made himself the sacrifice. The Bible is clear that our God is the Redeemer. The Bible is clear that Jesus is God! I for one will proclaim it; even unto death. I'll probably say more after I eat lunch - Im hungry over here!

I beg to differ. God did not express a plan or redemption until after the fall of Man. If anything, God held His breath while man walked in the garden. Perhaps God saw an infinite set of possibilities for man (though an infinite set is an oxymoron). But He never expressed foreknowledge in the Bible, towards which way man would go. I'm not asking you to prove it, because it isn't there. It was never written.

See, God knows the infinite...but His Heart hoped for one...

I think it is called "FREE WILL".

v/r

Q

Conscience · 04-22-2005, 07:53 PM

I beg to differ. God did not express a plan or redemption until after the fall of Man.

I agree! I didnt say that he revealed it before, just that he knew man was going to sin before he made man, or anything else for that matter.

If anything, God held His breath while man walked in the garden. Perhaps God saw an infinite set of possibilities for man (though an infinite set is an oxymoron). But He never expressed foreknowledge in the Bible, towards which way man would go. I'm not asking you to prove it, because it isn't there. It was never written.

Im confused here, what are we talking about? Also, God didnt see a possiblity of infinite possiblites, he already knew what would occure, before it did.

See, God knows the infinite...but His Heart hoped for one...

I think it is called "FREE WILL".

Im sorry, but I think I didnt explain well enough, I think you misunderstood me?. That said, God gave us free will, and hoped for a family. Futhermore, he will have what he set out to have.

Quahom1 · 04-22-2005, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by Conscience
The Bible is clear that God had a plan to redeem mankind before he even made mankind.

Better read your own post.

truthseeker · 04-22-2005, 09:18 PM

Boldly speaking,

I think God is much more like us, and us much more like him, then we seek to understand. It's just that we are finite and his is infinite. We'll be forever trying to figure him out. Just when we're on the brink of understanding, we're dead.

God created man, gave him a rule, man broke it, God got mad and man suffered the consequences.
Sounds like a humankind father and son in some places.

But God loved man so much, that he still watched over him, though their relationship was never the same again. Man's offspring is estranged from God, but he particularly took care of the ones he found favor in. Because God didn't really trust man (Man's heart is continuously evil...) he set up some rules and man had to follow them to the 't'. Man kept falling off. But that still didn't mean God still didn't yearn to trust man again. He sent His Son so that man could have a real example of how to have a relationship with Him. We get it, kinda, but we're still playing catch-up from over 5,000 years of not really getting it. In the meantime, God continually surpasses us in understanding.

Not to say that my Almighty was dumb any point. I'm just saying that He sought to learn his creation. Perhaps he created us with free will to give us an element that He can get to know.

The problem is, He knows more than we do about everything and we are so hardheaded that we are destroying ourselves. Because He loves us so he wants us to live so we can continue to flourish in a relationship of knowledge, understanding, and love with Him. We are His creation. If we don't want a relationship with Him, then we are obsolete.
Kind of like a computer program that you created that isn't useful for the purpose in which you created it.

mee · 04-22-2005, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Don't you dare...don't go there. I know what I know, and you are in no position to dictate otherwise to me...that is when it becomes personal.

We agree to disagree.

Q

who said that you have got to agree with the bible , its your choice, free will , i am only putting my beliefs here its up to you what you believe the same as me

Quahom1 · 04-22-2005, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

who said that you have got to agree with the bible , its your choice, free will , i am only putting my beliefs here its up to you what you believe the same as me

I don't have to agree with your church elders. How I recon the Bible is my business. Same as everyone else here. That is what I am saying. And I think I just made that perfectly clear.

v/r

Q

Conscience · 04-23-2005, 03:21 AM

"The Bible is clear that God had a plan to redeem mankind before he even made mankind."

The Bible say that Jesus is the lamb of God slain "before the foundation of the world." The plan of to save mankind began way before God created anything. Is this new to you?

Quahom1 · 04-23-2005, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conscience

"The Bible is clear that God had a plan to redeem mankind before he even made mankind."

The Bible say that Jesus is the lamb of God slain "before the foundation of the world." The plan of to save mankind began way before God created anything. Is this new to you?

No, He did not. Had He done so, you would have provided the proof in the Bible without further adieu. And Jesus did not get slain before the foundation of the world. Again, you offer nothing but your word? Or would you two care to turn more Biblical quotes as you see fit?

I am familiar with the scriptures you are about to present. Please indulge us.

v/r

Q

Faithfulservant · 04-23-2005, 07:11 AM

Hmm.. The wonderful thing about Christ is that HE freed us! We are no longer bound.. Its very sad to me when scriptures are taken out of context and used to bind people who genuinely love Christ.. These people need our prayers first and foremost.

Quahom1 · 04-23-2005, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Hmm.. The wonderful thing about Christ is that HE freed us! We are no longer bound.. Its very sad to me when scriptures are taken out of context and used to bind people who genuinely love Christ.. These people need our prayers first and foremost.

This is not a pulpit. That is my sole point.

v/r

Q

Faithfulservant · 04-23-2005, 09:57 AM

I have to agree with Q that I have never read anywhere that Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world.. but I do agree with Conscience that God is outside of time and knew that would happen before He even spoke the world into existance..

2 Timothy 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began

Titus 1:2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

Ephesians 1:4-5 and 11 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,

1 Peter 1:19-20 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you

Conscience · 04-23-2005, 05:08 PM

Revelation 13:8 "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

Jesus was foreordained to be slain and to save mankind that God already knew was going to sin.

For you know that God paid a ransom to save you from the empty life you inherited from your ancestors. And the ransom he paid was not mere gold or silver. He paid for you with the precious lifeblood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God. God chose him for this purpose long before the world began, but now in these final days, he was sent to the earth for all to see. And he did this for you. (1st Peter 1:18-20)

mee · 04-23-2005, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conscience

Revelation 13:8 "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

Jesus was foreordained to be slain and to save mankind that God already knew was going to sin.

For you know that God paid a ransom to save you from the empty life you inherited from your ancestors. And the ransom he paid was not mere gold or silver. He paid for you with the precious lifeblood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God. God chose him for this purpose long before the world began, but now in these final days, he was sent to the earth for all to see. And he did this for you. (1st Peter 1:18-20)

"The founding of the world." This clear connection of ko´smos with the world of mankind also aids one in understanding what is meant by "the founding of the world," as referred to in a number of texts. These texts speak of certain things as taking place ‘from the founding of the world.’ These include the ‘shedding of the blood of the prophets’ from the time of Abel onward, a ‘kingdom prepared,’ and ‘names being written on the scroll of life.’ (Lu 11:50, 51; Mt 25:34; Re 13:8; 17:8; compare Mt 13:35; Heb 9:26.) Such things relate to human life and activity, and hence "the founding of the world" must relate to the beginning of mankind, not of the inanimate creation or the animal creation. Hebrews 4:3 shows that God’s creative works were, not started, but "finished from the founding of the world." Since Eve was evidently the last of Jehovah’s earthly creative works, the world’s founding could not precede her

Faithfulservant · 04-23-2005, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conscience

Revelation 13:8 "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

Jesus was foreordained to be slain and to save mankind that God already knew was going to sin.

Thanks Conscience..