Council axes Christian prayers

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Zagreus

...You haven't been a good Trekkie then, have you? Or does your enthusiasm stop once the characters hit the silver screen? Okay, then. Figures...

Trekker. Trekkies are fanatics. Trekkers simply appreciate the concepts and attempt to apply them to everyday life...Even Stephen Hawkins is a Trekker...

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by wil

It doesn't appear to be that at all. No one was told to cease praying. What was done was it appears to me a Christian did a very Christian thing, decided to respect others. There was one voice in prayer, this was silenced to allow every voice to be in prayer...silently.

And as usual all of us not involved decide to put out our voice as to whether something that was done which does not involve us is right or not. It appears the one that made the decision was hired to make decisions and did.

Why should anyone be told to be silent in prayer Wil? Particularly if the prayer is for guidance? Those in minority should respect those in majority. And those in majority should respect the wishes of the same for the minority. Seems to me that the more people praying for guidence the better, regardless of what faith they hold. That means the people are looking for a better way for all, and asking for good counsil from the more perfect of us all...why silence anyone?

[Zagreus]

The Word means nothing ... without a Silence into which it may be spoken.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Zagreus

The Word means nothing ... without a Silence into which it may be spoken.

Exactly. Hence a moment of silence becomes a void, unless the word is spoken. What good is sweeping the heart clean of everything? Eventually something will, enter the vaccuum...

[Zagreus]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Exactly. Hence a moment of silence becomes a void, unless the word is spoken. What good is sweeping the heart clean of everything? Eventually something will, enter the vaccuum...

When God spoke the Kosmos into existence, do you suppose it was in Hebrew, Greek, Latin or Aramaic? All of these constitute a significant part of Christian tradition and liturgy, even if only two have received most of the attention throughout the centuries.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Zagreus

When God spoke the Kosmos into existence, do you suppose it was in Hebrew, Greek, Latin or Aramaic? All four of these constitute a significant part of Christian tradition and liturgy.

Hardly. I suspect it was in the language of God...how trite to imply a human language on the eternal...

if this is a chess game, I still have my Rooks and queen...

[wil]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

..how trite to imply a human language on the eternal...if this is a chess game, I still have my Rooks and queen...

2 funny, after just leaving the homosexual thread...I notice queen is not capitalized, so it can't be the royal Queen...so if this is a chess game you are utilzing two methods to defraud by cheating or swindling and a transvestite? Words are such fun....in any language.

luv u q

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by wil

2 funny, after just leaving the homosexual thread...I notice queen is not capitalized, so it can't be the royal Queen...so if this is a chess game you are utilzing two methods to defraud by cheating or swindling and a transvestite? Words are such fun....in any language.

luv u q

InLove said this would happen...I never dreamed it would be by you.

[Zagreus]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

if this is a chess game, I still have my Rooks and queen...

Chess ... I can dig the comparison.

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I suspect it was in the language of God...how trite to imply a human language on the eternal...

My point entirely, yet that's what the argument is about from the very beginning.

If the Christian Faith is "under fire" of late, which you feel this article illustrates, Quahom1, then perhaps it would be more profitable to speculate as to WHY?

~~~~~

An opportunity somewhere at CR, for Christians to speak out about why they feel they are "under fire," might be of use. I recommend Liberal Christianity, since there can be a more open approach on those forums.

At any rate, this is a topic that I think is worth discussing, because a broader range of opinions would be voiced, and the contributions offered have the potential to run the whole gamut when it comes to Christian tradition, beliefs and faith. People who have a Christian background, as from childhood, or even those who are decidedly agnostic, can also contribute without worrying about going against the grain.

If *this* is the proper forum for such discussion, maybe someone will start a thread that directly addresses this question of "faith under fire" (relevant to Christianity here) ... and I mean from a macro level, even if that is on a national level, since there may well be differences between UK and US experiences. This might even be part of the discussion!

Since so many articles highlighting this issue originate from Blaznfattyz, I wonder if Blazn might contribute? Speaking of Blazn, what are your opinions on these matters, these various articles which you are bringing to light, and this larger issue which Joshua has identified as "faith under fire?" What does it signify to you, and is now any different than say, 20 years ago - or 200?

Pax, and Pax Cultura,

~Zagreus

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Zagreus

Chess ... I can dig the comparison.

My point entirely, yet that's what the argument is about from the very beginning.

If the Christian Faith is "under fire" of late, which you feel this article illustrates, Quahom1, then perhaps it would be more profitable to speculate as to WHY?

~~~~~

An opportunity somewhere at CR, for Christians to speak out about why they feel they are "under fire," might be of use. I recommend Liberal Christianity, since there can be a more open approach on those forums.

At any rate, this is a topic that I think is worth discussing, because a broader range of opinions would be voiced, and the contributions offered have the potential to run the whole gamut when it comes to Christian tradition, beliefs and faith. People who have a Christian background, as from childhood, or even those who are decidedly agnostic, can also contribute without worrying about going against the grain.

If *this* is the proper forum for such discussion, maybe someone will start a thread that directly addresses this question of "faith under fire" (relevant to Christianity here) ... and I mean from a macro level, even if that is on a national level, since there may well be differences between UK and US experiences. This might even be part of the discussion!

Since so many articles highlighting this issue originate from Blaznfattyz, I wonder if Blazn might contribute? Speaking of Blazn, what are your opinions on these matters, these various articles which you are bringing to light, and this larger issue which Joshua has identified as "faith under fire?" What does it signify to you, and is now any different than say, 20 years ago - or 200?

Pax, and Pax Cultura,

~Zagreus

You can dish it out, but can't take a little of your own sarcasm? Or is it you just don't like dealing with others that might have a tad bit of the intelligence you posses, enough to challenge you to serious debate? Ou petetre Je le parle dans les longues faux, par vous? Mais non, Ili nyet. Shto Yazikium a vwiy horosho?

You forget, once you submit an original piece, it is e-mailed.
Zag orginally wrote:

"Chess ... I can dig the comparison. Problem is, there is no room on this board for a philosophical argument. Here, the terms, or rules, are all your own. You want the last word (), and you'll get it.

Besides, I've already tossed in my 2 cents."

"An opportunity somewhere at CR, for Christians to speak out about why they feel they are "under fire," might be of use. I recommend Liberal Christianity, since there can be a more open approach on those forums."

Here is where one is either convinced, convinces or concedes. Because here is where the rubber meets the road. This is THE christian forum. And the "philosophers' here are pretty well versed in their beliefs. They aren't exactly stupid sheep either. So roll up your sleeves and get down to work, or throw in the towel. But don't go blaming others for standing up for what they believe, simply because you don't believe the same thing and changing their minds might take a little sweat...that's the easy way out.


pax, et pax cultura Zag.

v/r

Joshua

[17th Angel]

Totnes? lol... Totnes? That isn't too far from me... I am quite suprised it would be a small place here in Devon, I don't agree with it, but could see why it would be more of the "wanted thing" in more northern areas say London... But down here.... Specially where I live... Things like Muslim or Islam or whatever faiths... Are not here.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Totnes? lol... Totnes? That isn't too far from me... I am quite suprised it would be a small place here in Devon, I don't agree with it, but could see why it would be more of the "wanted thing" in more northern areas say London... But down here.... Specially where I live... Things like Muslim or Islam or whatever faiths... Are not here.

As I said, I think the mayor erred...

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by Zagreus

Since so many articles highlighting this issue originate from Blaznfattyz, I wonder if Blazn might contribute? Speaking of Blazn, what are your opinions on these matters, these various articles which you are bringing to light, and this larger issue which Joshua has identified as "faith under fire?" ~Zagreus

as far as traditions are concerned, even if they have religious overtones, it should be respected and left alone for as long as possible and as much as possible (ill explain in next paragraphs). it is a reminder of how the country has strong christian morals and that is associated with the meetings and prayers.

fast-forward 600 years, more immigrants, more alternative lifestyles, more religions, more exposure to worldly philosophies, etc., and now the council has people that are not christian so the tradition of the Lord's prayer is being axed. This is not a matter of ignoring what you might see or read, it is a matter of not being able to ignore what is being said (earplugs anyone?) and you being asked to take part. and i see that as the big difference, where a change might be good in this case where the prayers are still observed to hold tradition (those that pray to god in jesus' name still do so, and those that have a moment of silence to respect tradition, or to contemplate ethics and morals, or whatever), and where the time of prayer holds tradition, the time of reflection or silence helps respect those of other faiths.

the ten commandments on a wall, well that is something that can be seen as not entirely religious but also as a concept of moral law, a symbol for man to achieve perfection of law and civility. those that are christian see god's law given to moses, those that are not christian can see a symbol and concept of law that man follows to create civilization, society, and justice. a statue of the 10 commandments does not ask anyone to act, or worship by way of another man's religion, but can be merely a symbol of a goal to be a achieved.

the pledge of allegiance, this is a traditional song that should not be changed, because it was already penned, we should not change the word's of something we did not write. so we either say it exactly as it is, or we substitute it with a different song altogether if the need ever arises, so it unifies the american people, because that is the whole reason behind it.

the nature of christianity as it moves forward thru the holy spirit is going to find itself at odds with other faiths and other lifestyles, because the holy spirit is what resists the evil and things that deny christ in the world. people do not like resistance to what they want. while there is an agenda to take christianity out of everything, it should come as no surprise as the bible says that in the end times people will be offended very easily and call bad things good, and good things bad.

the united states and england being a melting pot of people, we have to learn to recognize this, and not be afraid of change (and it's happening), and at the same time, not lose tradition. there is a middle ground that respects both sides. those that want to pray to god before meetings, pray to god, and those that do not believe in god or a different god, do accordingly. so it boils down to two kinds of laws. there is man's set of laws that tries its best to be equal and open to all. and there is god's law written on our hearts that is spiritual and we acknowledge god in that manner- spiritually and personally. we should respect diversity, we should respect tradition, we should respect religion, we should respect laws, and we should respect each other.

[wil]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

(a)as far as traditions are concerned, even if they have religious overtones, it should be respected and left alone for as long as possible and as much as possible

(b)the pledge of allegiance, this is a traditional song that should not be changed, because it was already penned, we should not change the word's of something we did not write. so we either say it exactly as it is, or we substitute it with a different song altogether if the need ever arises, so it unifies the american people, because that is the whole reason behind it.

(c)we should respect diversity, we should respect tradition, we should respect religion, we should respect laws, and we should respect each other.

a) The first thought would leave odes and traditions of slavery in place...

b) The pledge has been altered thrice...once to ADD 'under G-d' and once to CHANGE our salute from an outstretched palm to the flag to hand over our heart...original modifications were made from the socialist pledge for all nations...

c) In respecting each other we change and modify as we grow...as our pledge has...

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by wil

a) The first thought would leave odes and traditions of slavery in place...

b) The pledge has been altered thrice...once to ADD 'under G-d' and once to CHANGE our salute from an outstretched palm to the flag to hand over our heart...original modifications were made from the socialist pledge for all nations...

c) In respecting each other we change and modify as we grow...as our pledge has...

a) and b) are ideals, c) i think betters both with reality.