Count down to all out war in the Middle Eeast?

Quahom1 · 02-24-2005, 11:18 PM

Let's see,

Iraq is struggling with its new government and insurgents and others who do not want it to succeed, Lebanon is rallying for Syria to get out of their homeland, Turkey still has its eye on the Khurds of Northern Iraq, Hamas refuses to obey the New Palistinian Government, rockets and mortars are still being fired at Israel, President Bush is drumming a similar war beat towards Syria and Iran, that sounded before the Iraq war began, Iran is attempting to build the bomb, and now this just released:

Iran is believed to be actively attempting to infiltrate the Iraqi government at all levels.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6999382/site/newsweek/

Personal preferences aside, do you see the middle east coming to peace first, going to all out war, or something in between? Regardless of which direction it goes, who are the key players, what are the stakes, and what do you think they hope to get out of it, in the end?

v/r

Q

I, Brian · 02-25-2005, 12:25 PM

From what I've read over the past few years, the US has real plans for the Middle East, namely in democratising it to help stabilise the region. However, if Iran develops nuclear power then it can serve as a very real obstruction to US plans.

The key pivot to all Middle East unrest is the Palestinian issue - and now with Arafat gone there's real promise of developments on this issue. Abbas is proving a strong figure already, and even if it's never going to be the case of being able to get Hamas and Islamic Jihad entirely on board, the fact that he apparently has them pacified to any degree is a step towards success.

Also, we just had a new Palestinian cabinet agreed - a Palestinian government run according to ability and experience, rather than fat hands to dip in the cash:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4293937.stm

There is progress in the Middle East - but the ill-planned Iraq War is going to rumble on in its consequences.

As for Syria - it's always been a problem area, but Assad junior was presented by the BBC a while back as a one of the more decent guys, but behind the reigns of a country whose main workhorses are still his old bad dad's colleagues.

Don't forget as well that Libya is now in the international fold. I figure that's got to be good news, too, if a little out the way.

Sacredstar · 02-25-2005, 01:16 PM

It will be interesting to view the bigger picture unfold as opposing forces do battle to rule, the middle east certainly appear to be holding all the ace cards unless oil runs out, the US is really the puppet until such time as there is an alternative energy source.

mirrorinthefog · 02-25-2005, 04:54 PM

There was a time when I would be deeply concerned, but I could seriously care less right now. Things are on a downward spiral whether we discuss it to death or not, and excuses presented for war are rarely the motives for them.
So, who cares, we all know who will reap the profits from waging war on the world and who won't. We, the regular folks who don't make decisions, just get stuck with the gas bills and the death tolls.

Quahom1 · 02-25-2005, 06:51 PM

In this particular thread, I am asking for logical thought, not emotional feelings. Consider this like a "war college" class. Pros, cons, alternatives, solutions, backed by fact not feeling. Guess I didn't make that clear, so I'm doing so now.

No one's thoughts are wrong or right you see, just different, and enlightening perhaps (expected).

v/r

Q

mirrorinthefog · 02-25-2005, 10:26 PM

The fact that war is profitable to certain factions, and severely detrimental to the rest, is a fact.

Still, speculation on the problem will do little for the outcome, regardless of where it leads. That is what I meant to say, though obviously I wasn't "clear" either.

Do I need a bibliography and a 500 word essay at the end of each post to prove a point?

However, if my answer isn't to your standards and doesn't satisfy you, sir, please by all means contact the administrator and have it removed. I'm not out to offend anyone's views on anything, but please, don't use that as an excuse to lecture me.

You may have started the board, but I don't think that gives you a right to dictate my answers.

Quahom1 · 02-25-2005, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mirrorinthefog

The fact that war is profitable to certain factions, and severely detrimental to the rest, is a fact.

Still, speculation on the problem will do little for the outcome, regardless of where it leads. That is what I meant to say, though obviously I wasn't "clear" either.

Do I need a bibliography and a 500 word essay at the end of each post to prove a point?

However, if my answer isn't to your standards and doesn't satisfy you, sir, please by all means contact the administrator and have it removed. I'm not out to offend anyone's views on anything, but please, don't use that as an excuse to lecture me.

You may have started the board, but I don't think that gives you a right to dictate my answers.

Are you finished being angry? If I say I apologise, will you accept it? And after, should you choose, will you continue with your original thought?

I am looking for facts and thoughts to back those facts. I'm asking you to become a tactition. Cold fact, no feeling. Numbers and results and such.

If this, then that, if that then this kind of thing...do you understand me now?

v/r

Q

didymus · 02-26-2005, 02:42 AM

I think that the US is in error to propose the installation of a democratic government in Iraq. The US has seriously underestimated the arab people and their culture. By nature of their religion democracy will be difficult. From what I know government is still very interweaved with religion. Religious views and democracy don't go hand in hand as we see here in the USA>

I have seen good come out of a bad situation before but this one is too big. The long term ramifications could be devastating. It will take years for this to iron itself out and I don't see an end to insurgent attacks. Those aren't just Iraquis that are attacking they are coming in from neigboring countries and they are putting aside their differences to fight for a common cause which they see as the US.

Quahom1 · 02-26-2005, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by didymus

I think that the US is in error to propose the installation of a democratic government in Iraq. The US has seriously underestimated the arab people and their culture. By nature of their religion democracy will be difficult. From what I know government is still very interweaved with religion. Religious views and democracy don't go hand in hand as we see here in the USA>

I have seen good come out of a bad situation before but this one is too big. The long term ramifications could be devastating. It will take years for this to iron itself out and I don't see an end to insurgent attacks. Those aren't just Iraquis that are attacking they are coming in from neigboring countries and they are putting aside their differences to fight for a common cause which they see as the US.

Good Evening Didymus,

Nothing is too big for God/Allah to handle. Don't forget who is watching over all of this, lest you lose sight of yourself (and the rest of us as well).

The Father will preside, is presiding. Nothing can stop God...not even man.

v/r

Q

Bandit · 02-26-2005, 07:08 AM

i think there is way more going on than meets the eye all the way around. Politics are my least favorite subject, but I thought I'd give Q a run for his money.

Based on facts? I dont think the facts we hear, will ever be the truth until years down the road. I look at there faces and I see anger and greed beyond the smiling stiff neck. Here and there.
Everyone wants to be the King of the blue ball in the sky.
I do think this could be the countdown Q. It is bigger than what people realize. There is something different about the whole spirit of battle in this one.
To tell you the honest truth, I dont think most of them even realize what they are doing. But someone out there with power and big money knows.

I like the thought of masses of yellow ribbons on oak trees this spring

Quote:

Those aren't just Iraquis that are attacking they are coming in from neigboring countries and they are putting aside their differences to fight for a common cause which they see as the US.

I believe this is good insight. Allies, is just another word for who can we trust.
I dont think the U.S. (or any nation) is too big to be swallowed.

Sacredstar · 02-26-2005, 11:09 AM

Dear Bandit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandit

I like the thought of masses of yellow ribbons on oak trees this spring

(or any nation) is too big to be swallowed.

Beautiful.

Dear Q

Well GOD as allowed civilisations to be wiped out before and I am sure GOD will allow it again, we co-create destruction and GOD allows us to use our free will to do it with our own hands.

So I pray that people will wake up, take responsible action and change the face of humanity by standing up and being counted. My father taught me that the power is with the people when united we stand.

When is 'enough destruction enough'?

Love beyond measure

Kim xxx

Quahom1 · 02-26-2005, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Good Evening Didymus,

Nothing is too big for God/Allah to handle. Don't forget who is watching over all of this, lest you lose sight of yourself (and the rest of us as well).

The Father will preside, is presiding. Nothing can stop God...not even man.

v/r

Q

Sorry Did,

I broke my own rule. I'll stick to facts and figures.

v/r

Q

didymus · 02-26-2005, 04:32 PM

Actually you are right, nothing is too big for God. This situation is grave right now but any outcome is possible. Yaya con Dios!

Friend · 02-26-2005, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by didymus

I think that the US is in error to propose the installation of a democratic government in Iraq. The US has seriously underestimated the arab people and their culture. By nature of their religion democracy will be difficult. From what I know government is still very interweaved with religion. Religious views and democracy don't go hand in hand as we see here in the USA>

Quote:

Originally Posted by didymus

.

Salaam

Comments

- Islam doesn't contradict the Democracy ,Actually Islam call to democracy from it's beginning , there are an Islamic principle called " Al Shura " which aims to discuss People's affairs and to take the suitable decisions collectively .

The Arabic regimes doesn't represent any religious perspective …. These regimes was supported by USA regime in the 20th century ( during the cold war )in that political phase the USA utility require to support these regimes , but now I think that the new plans of America ( What America called the new world ) to control the world demands new requirements for these Arabic regimes .

- The new world of the American regime have two directions ,the first one to dominate the Oil resources around the world and prevent any possible future power to benefit from these resources like China or old EU (As Bush said )….. ,and the other direction is to applied something like the Marshal plan which was used to some Europe countries after War II against socialism ….., They call to political Reforms in the Middle east countries and promote American life style to be sure that the first step of the New World is under their control .

-What American regime believe now ,the Economy is important variable to lead the world in the future, So the economic competition between America and it's first economic enemy ( China ) require certain changes …., and we know without any doubt that Oil is the base of any economic power .

- we saw after each political phase changes and rearrangement of the powers in the world … and after the finishing of the cold war we saw many changes like the formation of the EU ,the armament attitude of Iran ,Pakistan ,India, North Korea ….

( we should remember that the Nuclear Technology of what was called the Soviets Union or RSSA transmitted to many countries) ,and this is another important reason behind the political behaviors of American regime toward the middle east area the military bases in the gulf states and Iraq will help to meet this new dangerous and to make the political situations in Asia under their control.

So ,I think we will see many dramatic political Movements in the Middle east region.

mirrorinthefog · 02-26-2005, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Are you finished being angry? If I say I apologise, will you accept it? And after, should you choose, will you continue with your original thought?

I am looking for facts and thoughts to back those facts. I'm asking you to become a tactition. Cold fact, no feeling. Numbers and results and such.

If this, then that, if that then this kind of thing...do you understand me now?

v/r

Q

I don't want an apology, and I'm not out to obstruct this board.

I understood you the first time. And I think I've said what I wanted to say on the matter, whether you like the way it was presented or not. So I'll leave it at that.