Creationism Is Paganism, says Vatican Astronomer

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by Dor

Well I dont know what you would call my denomination...but Calvery Chapel.

www.calvarychapel.com feel free to find their "official position"

"Calvary Chapel is a non-denominational Christian church which began in 1965 in Costa Mesa, California." they have baptisms there, they do evangelism, they sing, and teach the gospel, and they have communion. in that respect i dont understand their coined term of non-denominational. thats nothing really but marketing maybe, i know of them, they are an excellent church. this is my church http://www.rollinghillscovenant.com/

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by Prober

Here's a link to our denomination's view.

www.adventist.org

As Adventists relate to Roman Catholicism in particular, both the past and the future enter into our thinking. We cannot erase or ignore the historical record of serious intolerance and even persecution on the part of the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic system of church governance, based on extra-biblical teachings such as papal primacy, resulted in severe abuses of religious freedom as the church was allied with the state.

Seventh-day Adventists are convinced of the validity of our prophetic views, according to which humanity now lives close to the end of time. Adventists believe, on the basis of biblical predictions, that just prior to the second coming of Christ this earth will experience a period of unprecedented turmoil, with the seventh-day Sabbath as a focal point. In that context, we expect that world religions--including the major Christian bodies as key players--will align themselves with the forces in opposition to God and to the Sabbath. Once again the union of church and state will result in widespread religious oppression.

To blame past violations of Christian principles on one specific denomination is not an accurate representation of either history or the concerns of Bible prophecy. We recognize that at times Protestants, including Seventh-day Adventists, have manifested prejudice and even bigotry. If, in expounding on what the Bible teaches, Seventh-day Adventists fail to express love to those addressed, we do not exhibit authentic Christianity.

Adventists seek to be fair in dealing with others. Thus, while we remain aware of the historical record and continue to hold our views regarding end-time events, we recognize some positive changes in recent Catholicism, and stress the conviction that many Roman Catholics are brothers and sisters in Christ.

Hmmm...so "many" Catholics are brothers and sisters in Christ. Some, a couple maybe...well really just Fred- and he's marginal.

I'll tell you the truth Prober, this sounds like carefully massaged language, but I don't think the SDA church has modified it's position that it is the only true Church, and that the office of the Papacy is the anti christ. Do you disagree? I could give you some quotes from Ellen White if you like.

Chris

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

"Calvary Chapel is a non-denominational Christian church which began in 1965 in Costa Mesa, California." they have baptisms there, they do evangelism, they sing, and teach the gospel, and they have communion. in that respect i dont understand their coined term of non-denominational. thats nothing really but marketing maybe, i know of them, they are an excellent church. this is my church http://www.rollinghillscovenant.com/

Your church describes itself as Catholic (in the universal sense). I downloaded and read the PDF document that lays out your founding principles. You're good to go!

Chris

[China Cat Sunflower]

Prober,

Do these statements from Ellen G. White aka the "Spirit of Prophecy" reflect your own view of the RCC?

"Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots . . . is further declared to be ‘that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.’ Revelation 17:4–6, 18. The power that for so many centuries maintained despotic sway over the monarchs of Christendom is Rome. The purple and scarlet color, the gold and precious stones and pearls, vividly picture the magnificence and more than kingly pomp affected by the haughty see of Rome" (The Great Controversy, 338).

"It is one of the leading doctrines of Romanism that the pope is the visible head of the universal Church of Christ . . . and has been declared infallible. He demands the homage of all men. The same claim urged by Satan in the wilderness of temptation is still urged by him [Satan] through the Church of Rome, and vast numbers are ready to yield him homage" (ibid., 48).

"Marvelous in her shrewdness and cunning is the Roman Church. She can read what is to be. She bides her time, seeing that the Protestant churches are paying her homage in their acceptance of the false Sabbath. . . . And let it be remembered, it is the boast of Rome that she never changes. The principles of Gregory VII and Innocent III are still the principles of the Roman Catholic Church. And has she but the power, she would put them in practice with as much vigor now as in past centuries. . . . Rome is aiming to reestablish her power, to recover her lost supremacy" (ibid., 507–8).

"God’s word has given warning of the impending danger; let this be unheeded, and the Protestant world will learn what the purposes of Rome really are, only when it is too late to escape the snare. She is silently growing into power. Her doctrines are exerting their influence in legislative halls, in the churches, and in the hearts of men. She is piling up her lofty and massive structures, in the secret recesses of which her former persecutions will be1 repeated. Stealthily and unsuspectedly she is strengthening her forces to further her own ends when the time shall come for her to strike. All that she desires is vantage ground, and this is already being given her. We shall soon see and shall feel what the purpose of the Roman element is. Whoever believe and obey the word of God will thereby incur reproach and persecution" ( ibid., 508–9).

Chris

[Quahom1]

So, is the point that Catholics (who make up the solid majority of Christians) are pagan?

Or Chris, is it something more personal? I think Catholics are kick ass in helping others, and they don't talk too much about what they do...they just do it.

I also KNOW, that Catholics believe on Jesus as savior, messiah and mentor to the people at large.

Yes, Mary is a big part of the church, but Mary doesn't get us into heaven (and no, she can't open a side window for us to slip in).

v/r

Q

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

"Calvary Chapel is a non-denominational Christian church which began in 1965 in Costa Mesa, California." they have baptisms there, they do evangelism, they sing, and teach the gospel, and they have communion. in that respect i dont understand their coined term of non-denominational. thats nothing really but marketing maybe, i know of them, they are an excellent church. this is my church http://www.rollinghillscovenant.com/

Non-denominational meaning there are no other doctrines besides what the bible dictates to us...whats wonderful is that any bible believing christian of any denomination could worship with us and find that we teach the same thing they do so we have members of different denominations that come to service. If anything we consider ourselves apologists or liken ourselves to bereans in our study of the bible.

My pastor describes it like this..

A JW visits his home and asks him what denomination he was after finding out he was a christian.. my pastor said he wasnt any denomination.. he believed that Christ died on the cross for our sins he believes the bible is 100% infalliable and anything and everything we need is in that book. He basically says that there isnt a label for what he is other than a saved man.

[Jeannot]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Non-denominational meaning there are no other doctrines besides what the bible dictates to us...whats wonderful is that any bible believing christian of any denomination could worship with us and find that we teach the same thing they do so we have members of different denominations that come to service. If anything we consider ourselves apologists or liken ourselves to bereans in our study of the bible.

My pastor describes it like this..

A JW visits his home and asks him what denomination he was after finding out he was a christian.. my pastor said he wasnt any denomination.. he believed that Christ died on the cross for our sins he believes the bible is 100% infalliable and anything and everything we need is in that book. He basically says that there isnt a label for what he is other than a saved man.

The early Church got along for many years without the Bible as we know it. About all they had that was in any way canonical was the OT.

[Prober]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Hmmm...so "many" Catholics are brothers and sisters in Christ. Some, a couple maybe...well really just Fred- and he's marginal.

I'll tell you the truth Prober, this sounds like carefully massaged language.
Chris

As the point of any spiritual endeavor is to bring souls to Christ, one must be thoughtful in word and deed so as not to push them away in the process. Only if one considers a lack of contentiousness as "massaging" would one consider it so.

[Prober]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Prober,

Do these statements from Ellen G. White aka the "Spirit of Prophecy" reflect your own view of the RCC?

Chris

It's heirarchy? Yes. The laity? No.

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by Prober

As the point of any spiritual endeavor is to bring souls to Christ, one must be thoughtful in word and deed so as not to push them away in the process. Only if one considers a lack of contentiousness as "massaging" would one consider it so.

Ive been "massaged" by the SDA church and because of it I lost my faith for years.. I went as far as doubting there was even a God... my whole life spent believing I was saved to believing there was no God in a short week end time prophecy seminar... No thanks..

Sorry dont mean to derail this thread but I feel strongly about this I went through an enormous spiritual pain that I wish noone ever had to feel and every person involved in SDA past and present has my heartfelt prayers.

[Prober]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Ive been "massaged" by the SDA church and because of it I lost my faith for years.. I went as far as doubting there was even a God... my whole life spent believing I was saved to believing there was no God in a short week end time prophecy seminar... No thanks..

Sorry dont mean to derail this thread but I feel strongly about this I went through an enormous spiritual pain that I wish noone ever had to feel and every person involved in SDA past and present has my heartfelt prayers.

I'm sorry, too, Faithfulservant. I left the church for a long time as well and only recently came back. I'd like to know, sometime, what did it for you. Thanks for sharing.

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by Prober

I'm sorry, too, Faithfulservant. I left the church for a long time as well and only recently came back. I'd like to know, sometime, what did it for you. Thanks for sharing.

What made you leave and why did you go back?

Same question to you FS, except what made you come back to God, how did you come upon your new church, and how have things been since then?

We really should satrt a new thread about this, if you two's want...or not.

Chris

[Faithfulservant]

I'll start the thread by giving my testimony

[Prober]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

What made you leave and why did you go back?

Chris

I left because I was 18 and hadn't really cared about religion for some time. I felt like I had it crammed down my throat and couldn't think for myself. And, at that age, I had other things to do.

I came back because I'd felt God working on me for years. I honestly believed (believe) that it was the right thing to do based on my Bible studies and God's pull.

I'm aware that I could be operating out of early conditioning, but I pray about it frequently and try to keep an open mind. And, now that I can choose for myself, everything means so much more.

Plus, there's the great potlucks!

And, YES!, new thread.

[AletheiaRivers]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

So, is the point that Catholics (who make up the solid majority of Christians) are pagan?

Or Chris, is it something more personal?

I'm confused. I don't see Chris attacking the Catholic church. I see him asking why certain denominations don't feel that Catholics are Christian.

It's a question I see brought up on Tweb all the time. One thread was even entitled something like "Christians versus Catholics." Evangelical posters there question the validity of Catholic baptism. They question the validity of tradition. They point out the paganism found within the church's dogma and ritual, and declare it non-Christian.

What is so ironic is that, after belonging to a denomination that tried its darndest to remove any pagan influence from its worship, that it's the 'paganism' of Traditional Christianity (ie Anglican, Catholic, EO), that I like.