death is swallowed up

[Silas]

aburaees

I'm having some sticking-points here with you, I know you're trying, so I'll return the favour...
Paradise is Biblical.
Heaven is Biblical.
What is the difference between the two?
I have been of the opinion that they are separate places, are you telling me that they are one and the same?

Yeah, in the Bible they're the same. In the paradise described in the book of Gen. God walked with man.

A new Heaven is Biblical.
A new Earth is Biblical.
I have been of the opinion that the new Earth will come about after mankind has been judged etc.

I agree with that!

What is this new Earth in which the tent of God is with mankind?
Who will be in this new Earth?

God and man (like in the garden in the book of Gen.).

Do you see where I'm coming from? There are those who will be in the new Heaven, yet others will be in the new Earth. Isn't that Biblical?

No. The New Heaven will be "on" earth. Thats whats the scriptures teach.

[aburaees]

Originally Posted by Silas

aburaees

I'm having some sticking-points here with you, I know you're trying, so I'll return the favour...
Paradise is Biblical.
Heaven is Biblical.
What is the difference between the two?
I have been of the opinion that they are separate places, are you telling me that they are one and the same?

Yeah, in the Bible they're the same. In the paradise described in the book of Gen. God walked with man.

A new Heaven is Biblical.
A new Earth is Biblical.
I have been of the opinion that the new Earth will come about after mankind has been judged etc.

I agree with that!

What is this new Earth in which the tent of God is with mankind?
Who will be in this new Earth?

God and man (like in the garden in the book of Gen.).

Do you see where I'm coming from? There are those who will be in the new Heaven, yet others will be in the new Earth. Isn't that Biblical?

No. The New Heaven will be "on" earth. Thats whats the scriptures teach.

Ok, I'm beginning to understand you now Silas.

So this new Heaven AND new Earth are one and the same place? Just like Heaven and Paradise are one and the same place...

You see, the JW position is that the residents of the New Heaven or New Jerusalem will be the 144,000 ruling as kings alongside Christ. The residents of the New Earth (Paradise) will be the rest of God's sheep, and God will be with them.

[Silas]

Originally Posted by aburaees

Ok, I'm beginning to understand you now Silas.

So this new Heaven AND new Earth are one and the same place? Just like Heaven and Paradise are one and the same place...

You see, the JW position is that the residents of the New Heaven or New Jerusalem will be the 144,000 ruling as kings alongside Christ. The residents of the New Earth (Paradise) will be the rest of God's sheep, and God will be with them.

Yeah, the New Heaven and New Earth is the same place. I know how JWs understand the scripture and I'm sorry to say that its wrong (no offense). Just a basic read will show that God's people will be with Him forever. We'll be co-heirs with Christ if we are born again. Oh what pleasure God has in store for all those who love Him!!

[aburaees]

Originally Posted by Silas

Yeah, the New Heaven and New Earth is the same place. I know how JWs understand the scripture and I'm sorry to say that its wrong (no offense). Just a basic read will show that God's people will be with Him forever. We'll be co-heirs with Christ if we are born again. Oh what pleasure God has in store for all those who love Him!!

How then do you understand the number of 144,000? Is it a literal number or a symbolic number?

I think you'll find that the JWs will agree with you in that God's people will be with him forever. They just see a two groups of people fulfilling two functional capacities - the little crowd (144,000 elect, co-rulers) and the great crowd (that no man can number, from all tribes and nations, who will inhabit the Earth).

[Silas]

Originally Posted by aburaees

How then do you understand the number of 144,000? Is it a literal number or a symbolic number?

I think you'll find that the JWs will agree with you in that God's people will be with him forever. They just see a two groups of people fulfilling two functional capacities - the little crowd (144,000 elect, co-rulers) and the great crowd (that no man can number, from all tribes and nations, who will inhabit the Earth).

I want to say "symbolic" but I dont know because I havent studied that subject. So rather than speaking about something I dont know, I'll have to shut up on this issue. I will say this, however. The J bubs are very envangelistic and are faithful in witnessing probably more than any other religous group. Unfortunately, the message is full of desceptions and false doctrines. I pray that God opens their eyes and lead them to Christ.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Silas

The J bubs are very envangelistic and are faithful in witnessing probably more than any other religous group. Unfortunately, the message is full of desceptions and false doctrines.

Because my eyes are no longer pasted togeather, but open to the pure word of God ,i can now see that the JW are sticking very faithfully to the pure word of God the bible . and i can also see that they have cast off the manmade false doctrines of man , revelation 18;4 which means that they are nolonger contaminated with false religion, and they have allowed Jehovah God to take them in , and then they have been blessed by Jehovah and been given much understanding about bible prophecy and much insight . Danial 12;4and then these faithful ones can feed the other sheep with the spiritual food that is being given to them. and the reason that JW are a worldwide people preaching in unity, is because Jehovah can accomplish whatever he wills , and when Jehovahs spirit or active force is behind a work it will be sucessfull.even under opposition.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

Because my eyes are no longer pasted togeather, but open to the pure word of God ,i can now see that the JW are sticking very faithfully to the pure word of God the bible . and i can also see that they have cast off the manmade false doctrines of man , revelation 18;4 which means that they are nolonger contaminated with false religion, and they have allowed Jehovah God to take them in , and then they have been blessed by Jehovah and been given much understanding about bible prophecy and much insight . Danial 12;4and then these faithful ones can feed the other sheep with the spiritual food that is being given to them. and the reason that JW are a worldwide people preaching in unity, is because Jehovah can accomplish whatever he wills , and when Jehovahs spirit or active force is behind a work it will be sucessfull.even under opposition.

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face."—1 Corinthians 13:12.

We don't see anything clearly, none of us. That too is biblical.

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by Silas

I want to say "symbolic" but I dont know because I havent studied that subject. So rather than speaking about something I dont know, I'll have to shut up on this issue. I will say this, however. The J bubs are very envangelistic and are faithful in witnessing probably more than any other religous group. Unfortunately, the message is full of desceptions and false doctrines. I pray that God opens their eyes and lead them to Christ.

The end-time prophetic belief is that the 144,000 are literal amount of Jewish Christians that evangalize the world during the tribulation..

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

The end-time prophetic belief is that the 144,000 are literal amount of Jewish Christians that evangalize the world during the tribulation..

Christians, perhaps. But only 12,000 are from the tribe of Judah. The remaining 132,000 are from the remaining eleven tribes of Israel. I think that means they will come from all corners of the earth, and will represent the whole of mankind.

Which would be fitting indeed.

v/r

Joshua

[mee]

[quote=Quahom1;85498]

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face."—1 Corinthians 13:12.

We don't see anything clearly, none of us. That too is biblical.

[/quote yes it was hazy, the early christians had as much understanding at that time as they needed . the annointed christians,
including the apostle Paul himself, had not been led by holy spirit to a complete knowledge of all truth. Their knowledge was still only partial, to the extent that God had given them understanding up to that time. But it was sufficient for the needs they then had.—1 Cor. 13:9, 10, 12.
So we can see that, both with regard to Jehovah’s faithful servants in pre-Christian times and the congregation of anointed Christians of the first century of our Common Era, without exception all had incomplete knowledge and understanding. They had to continue to make progress, readjusting their understanding as they observed and experienced the gradual outworking of Jehovah’s purposes. For them, the path of the righteous ones has indeed been like ‘a bright light that gets ever lighter and lighter.’ (Prov. 4:18) As the light increased, they grew in knowledge, discerning more fully the grand truths that Jehovah kept revealing to them.
about the year 64 C.E., about 9 years later what did Peter write his fellow Christians? "Consequently we have the prophetic word made more sure; and you are doing well in paying attention to it as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until day dawns and a daystar rises, in your hearts." (2 Pet. 1:16-21) So Christians still needed to search the Scriptures, giving much attention to the prophetic word, which would be like a lamp shining in a dark place. This they must continue to do clear down to the time when anointed Christians would experience their reward at the glorious revelation of Jesus Christ. but now in the time of the end Jesus is feeding his faithful ones matthew 24;45-47 its all happening the light keeps flashing up for the righteoues one
"Light itself has flashed up for the righteous one, and rejoicing even for the ones upright in heart."—PSALM 97:11.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

The end-time prophetic belief is that the 144,000 are literal amount of Jewish Christians that evangalize the world during the tribulation..

That fleshly distinctions no longer count with God is clear from Galatians 3:28, where we read: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one person in union with Christ Jesus." And at Galatians 6:16 this composite body of believers, both Jews and non-Jews, is called the "Israel of God

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Christians, perhaps. But only 12,000 are from the tribe of Judah. The remaining 132,000 are from the remaining eleven tribes of Israel. I think that means they will come from all corners of the earth, and will represent the whole of mankind.

Which would be fitting indeed.

v/r

Joshua

yes lol sorry thats what I get for posting before my cup of coffee haha

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by mee

That fleshly distinctions no longer count with God is clear from Galatians 3:28, where we read: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one person in union with Christ Jesus." And at Galatians 6:16 this composite body of believers, both Jews and non-Jews, is called the "Israel of God

I love you mee you are a good and loyal JW

[Quahom1]

[quote=mee;85510]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face."—1 Corinthians 13:12.

We don't see anything clearly, none of us. That too is biblical.

[/quote yes it was hazy, the early christians had as much understanding at that time as they needed . the annointed christians,
including the apostle Paul himself, had not been led by holy spirit to a complete knowledge of all truth. Their knowledge was still only partial, to the extent that God had given them understanding up to that time. But it was sufficient for the needs they then had.—1 Cor. 13:9, 10, 12.
So we can see that, both with regard to Jehovah’s faithful servants in pre-Christian times and the congregation of anointed Christians of the first century of our Common Era, without exception all had incomplete knowledge and understanding. They had to continue to make progress, readjusting their understanding as they observed and experienced the gradual outworking of Jehovah’s purposes. For them, the path of the righteous ones has indeed been like ‘a bright light that gets ever lighter and lighter.’ (Prov. 4:18) As the light increased, they grew in knowledge, discerning more fully the grand truths that Jehovah kept revealing to them.
about the year 64 C.E., about 9 years later what did Peter write his fellow Christians? "Consequently we have the prophetic word made more sure; and you are doing well in paying attention to it as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until day dawns and a daystar rises, in your hearts." (2 Pet. 1:16-21) So Christians still needed to search the Scriptures, giving much attention to the prophetic word, which would be like a lamp shining in a dark place. This they must continue to do clear down to the time when anointed Christians would experience their reward at the glorious revelation of Jesus Christ. but now in the time of the end Jesus is feeding his faithful ones matthew 24;45-47 its all happening the light keeps flashing up for the righteoues one
"Light itself has flashed up for the righteous one, and rejoicing even for the ones upright in heart."—PSALM 97:11.

Afraid it doesn't work that way Mee. See the Bible is supposed to be out of time (not subject to time). Which means it is as pertenant today as it was yesterday, as it will be tomorrow. As long as we are on earth in this life, we do not see clearly. Only when we meet God, is everything become clear. You can't have it both ways. So, I opine everyone is still looking through glass darkly...even you.

v/r

Joshua

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

That fleshly distinctions no longer count with God is clear from Galatians 3:28, where we read: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one person in union with Christ Jesus." And at Galatians 6:16 this composite body of believers, both Jews and non-Jews, is called the "Israel of God

Perhaps because the 11 remaining tribes have scattered across the earth, hence there is neither Greek nor Jew...