Democracy and Islam

[Amica]

Salaam/peace.

I think that Islam as a religion is a democratic religion in nature, because God/Allah Almighty in the Qur'an commands: 1) peace and only war in defense of oneself/his faith and his community, 2) no compulsion in faith, 3) equality between the sexes (only one biologically having some advantages over the other--not meaning to put the other sex down), etc.

Islam began with a fight for its right to co-exist with others in the world (starting with Prophet Abraham and the rejection he faced from unbelievers, the attempted attack on him, etc), because God Almighty in the Qur'an says that if He wished everyone in the world to be Muslim, it would be so, but He did not.

"You have your religion, I have mine," is one of the important prinicples of the Islam and one that some people may forget at times, but is extremely important because it is of a democratic nature. The statement translates into a picture of a secular community where one wants to live with others, but rightfully practice their own believes.

I think that Muslims are afraid of the 'democracy' as presented by the West, because the Western societies do not represent the most moral societies in the Muslims' eyes. And morality is one of the most important things about being a Muslim.

Looking at the humanity in general, any time we grasp too much freedom to do things we go into excess of doing them. The Western socieities are the most advanced in technology, medicine, sciences, but morally have declined: drug use, abortions, teen pregnancies, out of wedlock sexual encounters, sexual diseases, homosexuality, alcoholism, murders, etc.

I am not saying that some people in the Muslim communities are not just as bad, because I am sure there are people who have sex before/outside marriage, there are homosexual Muslims, there are rapes happening, etc. but with the eyes of Islam majority of the Muslims in the islamic communities do not condone these behaviors and these behaviors are less practiced because of rejections by the majority.

As an example: Muslim community in Bosnia, despite declining in its religious spirit during yugoslavian regimes, looked upon distastefully at 'living together thing' before marriage. Today, because suddenly it became 'modern' to do so after certain Bosnians have met the rest of the West and many are engaging in the pre-marriage situations and even having children in such a state. This is totally unislamic.

Muslims are not afraid to share knowledge, not afraid to learn new things in sciences, technology, offer help to advance humanity in various areas if possible, but we do not want the whole package of immorality (the way we see and understand it, no offense).

While Westerners view Islam to be restrictive, we view Western democracy to be too loose.

I think that certain people in the islamic countries are too rigorous in their practices of Islam that it comes to the point that some people, especially women who are not treated in accordance with Islam, are willing to shake the devil's hand than to stay in the situation they are in. Eventually, this may lead to great apostasy that was predicted long ago.

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Light

It is fascinating to hear in the news of Western countries tries to propogate democracy in the Muslim world.

I am wondering if this is in line with the teaching of Muhammad, peace be upon him, or is it a deception that will eventually lead us away from the straight path.

In democracy, their main tenets are (correct me if I am wrong):

1) Freedom of Belief
2) Freedom of opinion
3) Freedom of ownership
4) Personal freedom

Yet, when one country practise this principles, the propogators of democracy reject the people choice. As can be seen in the recent Pelestine election. So, is democracy just a deception from their main goal?

The primary tenet of both democracy and capitalism is Faith. Faith in God, faith in each other, and faith in yourself. Democracy is a form of governing by the people. Capitalism is a form of economy by the people. Both present people with many choices... many, many decisions and choices to make. That is scary to some people because it requires Faith. It does add stress. It requires both Faith in God and Faith in people, although some deny the former and some work to avoid the latter.

It is similar to driving a car down a road where at any moment another person could swerve and kill you both, or stop and help you when you are broken on the side of the road. There is risk because the actions and motivations of the people in other cars is unknown to you, and because the destination that you personally choose for yourself may prove fruitless or leave you broken on the side of the road. You must believe that God helps you choose your destination. You must trust that others will love you as they love themselves... and some people don't. There has to be Faith that your neighbor does good deeds with his car as you do, enjoins in Truth with you by signalling to other drivers his intentions, and that everyone is patient with each other, always constant in following the agreed laws of the road. There is freedom to choose your destination and speed as long as you obey the laws that everyone collectively agrees to... or hires a representative to help decide for them. The people do collectively pay for police to ensure the laws are obeyed and a judicial system to judge those that don't as best humanly possible. That is democracy. Capitalism means that you personally pay for your car and your gas in proportion to your use. There can be busses where people pool their resources and work together for a similar destination, similar to a school or a company.

There are other systems. A non-democratic or non-capitalist transportation system might be like a train commanded in a long line with a single well trained and certified driver. The different trains (countries) can be easier coordinated so that there are no collisions. Every occupant has the same or a similar destination. There is no need for every occupant to pay for gas because everyone pays the same anyway, and there is no need for ownership of things like a car. There is no need for Faith in your neighbor because you are both going to the same place at the same speed, and they can't hurt you with their wreckless driving. Neither can you hurt them anymore. However there is Faith and submission to the train driver's decisions and the reliability of the train and track. There is no need to communicate intentions anymore since you know each others destination. In fact you have far fewer intentions or worries except to board the train as you are supposed to, sit quietly, and exit when you are supposed to. There is no need to be patient because there is little to do short of jumping from the train. Everyone places their fate into the same train and train driver to arrive safely at the destination at the same time.

If the train driver were God, then I am certainly for taking a relaxing lifelong train ride, but if it is another man who is not all seeing, all hearing, and all knowing, then should we submit to another man instead of God? No. I prefer to choose my own car or bus and its destination with God's help. Not everyone has the same destination. Isn't that what the religions of Ibrahim (pbuh) teach? There is verifiably more than one destination, at least two, and we are judged for our own decisions. While there is a push for unity in Islam it seems that by God's design there are always sinners on the road that we must contend with and help. In fact the only way to recognize this is if people have freedom to choose their own destinations... to make their own decisions or be a part of collective decisions.

[umm salamah]

I would like to comment on this topic & insha Allah i will do tomorrow....be prepared lol

[Light]

Hi all,
It's been a while since I put my penny worth on this subject. After some investigation and personal study of my own, I have found some very interesting information.

There are indications that Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) have practised some form of democracy during his time as in the following examples:

1) Before the Uhud expedition, Prophets (s.a.w) decision was to stay put in Madinah and protect the city from the coming Makkan army. However, some of the younger muslims brother at that time opined that they should go out and meet the army outside Madinah. After consultation, Prophet (s.a.w) agree with them and commanded the Muslims army to march out of Madinah and meet the Makkan army in Uhud. This shows that the Prophet (s.a.w) do consult the companions and makes decision based on the general consesus. Thus, that is one form of democracy.

2) During one of the expedition, Prophet (s.a.w) came into an openings and ordered the Muslim army to set up camp for the night. However, one of the companions came forward and suggest an alternative place which he claimed is much secured and give advantage to the Muslims during battle. Again prophet (s.a.w.) agreed with the companion and accept his suggestion. This is another example of how the prophet (s.a.w) practise democracy in decision making.

Democracy in its pure form is a tool and if it is used correctly will be acceptable. Capitalist democracy is unacceptable as the intention is not for Allah but more for material gain. Thus, probably why some believe democracy is unacceptable in Islam.

What's your opinion?

[DT Strain]

I would like to add something from American history, which may help explain something. When the U.S. Constitution was first being formed, we had just rebelled from a ruler King (in England), as I'm sure you probably know. There was a lot of talk about God's will and the people's will and how all this democracy stuff worked.

It all had to do with the proper flow of authority. The basic concept of the Kings was that authority flowed from God to the King and then from the King to the people. So it was...

GOD > KING (STATE) > PEOPLE

But the founders of the U.S. democracy said that the proper flow of authority should be...

GOD > PEOPLE > STATE

In other words, instead of one dictator telling the people what God thought, God spoke to his people, and the people would then tell the state what should be done. That's why the leadership in the U.S. is properly viewed as servants of the people (although some forget this from time to time).

What has been said in this thread about various secular dictators in the muslim nations getting in the way of God's will, and democracy being the way that a Muslim people can instill it, seems very practical to me.