dialogue about dialogue

[ardenz]

Maybe I'm insulting people here, but Instead of there being a seperate Liberal Christian forum there should be a forum called Traditional Christianity (or something like that).

There are also perhaps differences in cultural background. To state the obvious. We speak a common language on this forum - English - (and are probably all native speakers), but we come from different cultures: British, American, Australian, Irish (moi), etc.... And these differences can be noticed in language nuances, cultural etc...points of reference.

I feel that visiting the Christian forum can be like visiting a Bible class from school. Thank God I 've grown up now. Jesus never mentioned anything about reading the Bible. I prefer exploring the mystery. Throw the instruction book away and live.
Ardenz

[ardenz]

bumping thread.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by ardenz

Jesus never mentioned anything about reading the Bible. I prefer exploring the mystery. Throw the instruction book away and live.
Ardenz

What? Jesus never mentioned about reading the bible? I beg to differ. (I'd bible thump ya, but this isn't the place for )

[ardenz]

Originally Posted by Dondi

What? Jesus never mentioned about reading the bible? I beg to differ. (I'd bible thump ya, but this isn't the place for )

The "Thumping" mentality is exactly the reason why I would never have anything to do with a certain type of Christianity as it is being portrayed today. I meant the "Bible" that was written after him, about him and long after him. From what I understand, he didn't actually write it and say read this after me.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by ardenz

The "Thumping" mentality is exactly the reason why I would never have anything to do with a certain type of Christianity as it is being portrayed today. I meant the "Bible" that was written after him, about him and long after him. From what I understand, he didn't actually write it and say read this after me.

I was kidding, of course. I'm glad you cleared this up, though. I would have referred you to the OT which Jesus quoted from. But you are right, He never wrote anything down. But he did say, "If a man love me, he will keep my words"

By the way, what is you idea of bible thumping? It's not merely just sharing something from the bible, is it?

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by ardenz

I feel that visiting the Christian forum can be like visiting a Bible class from school. Thank God I 've grown up now. Jesus never mentioned anything about reading the Bible. I prefer exploring the mystery. Throw the instruction book away and live.
Ardenz

I'd go with that!! But I wont go into it here.
I think a problem for me personally in staying detached enough to remain civil is that in some cases there seems to be an underlying bias toward the idea that all faith is essentially harmless. Where it patently is not. From full-scale war, to genocide, to individual murders what is done in the name of religion is often barbaric. Usually the justification comes from literalistic interpretations of specific pieces of text from one religion or another. And what gives the minority of individuals that actually partake in the atrocities sanction and cover is the many who stand passively in support wearing rose coloured spectacles. Bush's invasion of Iraq is a prime example. Bush never makes a speech without reference to God and he does this to garner the backing of fundamentalist America which is the backbone of his support, and without which he would never get elected. The fact that he only does so because he has to seems lost on so many. Wave a flag and say God a few times and mass murder becomes acceptable. So this is where I have greatest difficulty with the extremes and sometimes the PC required by this site forces me to tone down the language to remain respectful to the individual. It is a useful exercise. The world I want to live in is tolerant and respectful. But it is not always that easy.

TE

[China Cat Sunflower]

I must be living in an alternate reality because I remember things entirely differently. I remember the stifling condescension of arrogance that was the Christianity board. I remember how certain moderators played favorites, and shamelessly egged on the factionalism. I remember how when Liberal Christianity started the people were so raw from their ill treatment at the hands of the "Christians" that they wanted a place that they "owned" from which to retaliate in kind. Or maybe I just dreamed it all.

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, China Cat!

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

I must be living in an alternate reality because I remember things entirely differently. I remember the stifling condescension of arrogance that was the Christianity board. I remember how certain moderators played favorites, and shamelessly egged on the factionalism. I remember how when Liberal Christianity started the people were so raw from their ill treatment at the hands of the "Christians" that they wanted a place that they "owned" from which to retaliate in kind. Or maybe I just dreamed it all.

I suppose it is perspective. All I did was try to keep the peace, and got slammed for it from both sides.

[lunamoth]

InLove,

I read every word you wrote and thank you very much for that post. I think it is an excellet recap of what happened and your observations, as far as I can tell, are spot on.

From my perspective the lib board is not difficult to moderate (I was probably one of the main mods there for most of the time until the recent changes), so that is not the issue. And I know that wil, earl, yourself and others have found a safe haven there now that it's settled down. My objection is that it appears to legitimize the idea that there is an 'us and them' in Christianity. A good example was when Silas decided that the lib forum represented the great unsaved masses of CR (aka fish in a barrel) and so started prosyletizing threads there. Also, as InLove mentioned, how conservative members were subjected to something like a witch trial when the LC board first started.

Once we start making divisions, whether we call them liberal or traditional or whatever, there's no stopping it. I, for example, might make a division based upon the Nicene Creed for tradtional Christianity, but then we'd need subforums for JW, LDS, SDA etc etc. The description as we have it in the COC now (or at least it used to be): anyone who accepts Jesus Christ as Savior. That category is very wide and allows people to define for themselves (as it should be) whether they are a Christian. It does not mean everyone needs to agree even on what that means...but then that's what makes discussion interesting.

I see the subforums at CR mostly as categories for discussion, not meant to be defining of the particular religion. However, I am speaking only for myself...as a member and not as staff.

CR is the first forum I ever joined (and is still one of only about three or four I've ever participated in). I joined here because the level of discussion was high and the members were very civil to each other, even where there were disagreements. I felt safe putting my little ideas out there and did not feel that everyone here would jump on me. For the most part CR still is this way, thanks to Brian and the efforts of all the mods here. It is still a great discussion forum. Just wanted to thank you again to Brian.

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Hi FS. I told Quahom I would never again post to Christianity. He has to release me. You really didn't like it when I was there before, what's different now?

If I made you feel that way then Im sorry Im working on it I promise. Im trying to not be a slave to my emotions or to other people. I have issues after living in an abusive relationship and things like sarcasm and passive aggressiveness hit sore spots and I react.. Im trying to not be like that.

You dont need Q to release you.. I doubt he realizes that you are requesting it.

[Prober]

Originally Posted by InLove

These are the folks who, regardless of how devoted they may be to the idea of “love the sinner, hate the sin” cannot seem to demonstrate that same love in their actions. It comes off like passion without compassion, and so much of the time it renders the point they so desperately want to share ineffective at best, and unhealthy and hurtful the rest of the time. And they openly wonder why people don’t want to invest in the heaven they speak of, when they themselves appear to be stuck in some kind of perpetual hell already.

I agree. The trick (imo) is remembering to love first. I forget sometimes.

But there are people who are in tender places that are in need of loving kindness and are sincerely seeking a kind word. They already may be hurting more than anyone can imagine, even if they don’t say so. So when I see someone with an apparently gentle soul getting their head flushed down the toilet in the name of Christ, I make no apology for getting a bit riled.

I know what you mean.

Thanks for reading. (And if you skimmed it, you should go back and read it all because I spent a lot of time writing it. )

InPeace,
InLove

No, no! I read the whole thing. I'll take it as a reminder to myself to remember whom I'm representing.

Thanks for taking the time to put it so well.

Mark

[wil]

Another of the items about dialogue is our (my) interpretation that I understand what someone is saying.

When posts or threads or months later they tell a story that ties a whole lot of stuff together and really makes sense.

None of us have walked in each others shoes. What causes one to go off in one way or the other often has nothing to do with what we post or respond to here, but a whole myriad of experiences which one has accumulated in their lifetime.

Case in point with our poster who requested the liberal board. She grew up beyond fundamental in our eyes, in what is often looked at by society as a quaint little religion. But she educated us on what it was like to live in that group, and outside of it many people have been jailed for similar things and it was called child abuse. Inside her religion and with her family she couldn't continue her education....I can't imagine having to make a decision to leave family and friends, but it is clear why she did....and wow...I really can't even contemplate it.

So all those added up...and she came back under another moniker a little different from the original...

I know we aren't social services...but to improve communtiy you don't simply kick out ever single untoward element or soon there are none left...I'm always reminded about what Tich Nhat Hanh said about the rose...if it wouldn't bloom, if it had leaf spot, you'd nurture it to health...you'd provide the situation and the nutrients for it to improve.

I took a self imposed sabatical once...as it seemed to me that I was an issue...sometimes it seems I still am...it is all about learning and growing, and I'm appreciative you all put up with me.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

in some cases there seems to be an underlying bias toward the idea that all faith is essentially harmless

I think it's the case that when we speak as individuals we can only represent ourselves - I don't believe anyone here holds themselves to be the definitive speaker for any faith group.

China - hopefully you'll find CR a little more relaxed these days.

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

If I made you feel that way then Im sorry Im working on it I promise. Im trying to not be a slave to my emotions or to other people. I have issues after living in an abusive relationship and things like sarcasm and passive aggressiveness hit sore spots and I react.. Im trying to not be like that.

I too was suffering from anxieties brought about by things far extraneous to this forum. I'm a progressive Democrat. A Liberal. I opposed the Iraq war from the beginning out of conscience. I endured almost five years of being verbally abused by my friends and coworkers for being against the war. I watched my country go to hell, lose it's prestige in the world, and lose it's sense of right and wrong. It hurt. It hurts to be called a traitor, especially when you're ex-military. I've been a peacemaker my whole life, willing to take a punch to stop a fight. I just got to the point where I was so angry that I couldn't take it anymore. Maybe you can understand how the idea that somehow Liberal Christians aren't real Christians kinda rings my pavlovian bell.


Chris

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

I think it's the case that when we speak as individuals we can only represent ourselves - I don't believe anyone here holds themselves to be the definitive speaker for any faith group.

China - hopefully you'll find CR a little more relaxed these days.

Yes, it's much better thanks. I brought my inflatable mattress this time.

Chris