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Old 05-01-2005, 12:33 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Did an asteroid cause Noah's Flood Tsunami?

Greetings to All:

An interesting theory by James Marusek on what caused Noah's Flood is summarized as follows:

"A large comet or asteroid impact in a glacier ice sheet produced the Biblical Great Flood which brought the last Ice Age to an abrupt and sudden end."

http://personals.galaxyinternet.net/tunga/Flood.htm

According to the author, the impact of a 2 mile diameter asteroid on a large glacier would release energy "equivalent to 12.6 times the total annual energy usage throughout the entire world today; all released in a split second".

This would lead to a chain of reactions, including earthquakes, volcanos, fracture glacial sheets, ejecting water, steam and ice high into the atmosphere.

There at least 2 important related events which took place in 2004.

- First: The visit of "Toutatis", a large asteroid of similar size, and it's nearest distance to earth was reached in September 2004

- Second: The earthquake and tsunami in December 2004, with the massive floods it caused.

What is interesting is that the Qur'an describes the waves during Noah's flood, as "waves as high as mountains", which could be in a way similar to waves released in a tsunami.

Could Noah's flood have resulted from such an impact?

In addition to all of the massive rains and floods, was there also a tsunami?

What do you think?
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Old 05-01-2005, 10:20 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Did an asteroid cause Noah's Flood Tsunami?

It really seems to be clutching at straws, by using currently vogue square-peg theories to try and hammer them into round-hole religious concepts.

And when the square-peg vogue theory - ie, that mass-extinction events require a sudden and dramatic event such as an asteroid strike (there is a heck of a lot of contention on the K-T boundary issue of 65 million years ago) - losses credence, then what? An out-dated idea to support Faith?
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Old 05-02-2005, 08:13 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Did an asteroid cause Noah's Flood Tsunami?

It's only a theory, Brian, which may be correct or maybe incorrect.

However, the sequence of events suggested by the author can take place, it's not as if they are impossible.

Believers in the three Monotheistic religions, (Jews, Christians and Muslims), believe that a great flood did take place. We don't need to support our beliefs as you suggested, but from science today we do know that at least 2 major floods took place around 10,000 years ago in the Black Sea and Caspian Sea areas, which is not far away from where the ark is supposed to have landed.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/bl.../ax/frame.html

A number of scientific magazines have also written on this subject, including the New Scientist and others. If of interest let me know, and I'll try to post them for you.

All the best.
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Old 05-02-2005, 09:41 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Did an asteroid cause Noah's Flood Tsunami?

The Black Sea flooding is an entirely different idea, though - for a start, it wasn't global, nor was it caused by a strike by an extra-terrestrial object.

Really, a theory needs evidence to make it credibly testable - in this instance, the person has basically posted that the Bible reports flooding, and that a strike from space might release water if at a glacier - but offers absolutely no supporting evidence as to how this might work.

Therefore it's simply an idea, and one that doesn't even try and support itself properly either.

Hence my scepticism that it's trying to force a square peg in a round hole.
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Old 05-02-2005, 10:21 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Did an asteroid cause Noah's Flood Tsunami?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I, Brian
it wasn't global
The Qur'an does not mention that it was a global flood.

Here are a few more research papers from a conference held in 2003:

http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2003AM/fin...ssion_9644.htm

Having seen the tsunami in Asia of last December, where 250,000 people lost their lives from "waves as high as mountains", why do you think this could not have happened 10,000 years ago?
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Old 05-03-2005, 01:15 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Did an asteroid cause Noah's Flood Tsunami?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordoba
The Qur'an does not mention that it was a global flood.
What does the book where Noah was revealed say? (I'm not much of a bible scholar )

LOL, that's the worst 'embarrassed' smily I've ever encountered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordoba
Having seen the tsunami in Asia of last December, where 250,000 people lost their lives from "waves as high as mountains", why do you think this could not have happened 10,000 years ago?
Are you asking if tsunamis lend credence to the idea of huge boats and the storage of species, or if such catastrophes have given rise to folklore of giant floods?
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Old 05-03-2005, 04:22 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Did an asteroid cause Noah's Flood Tsunami?

Neither, Jaiket.

Only a few months ago, we saw on TV how a tsunami can drown entire coastal villages in the matter of a few minutes and caused hundreds of thousands of casualities.

What I'm asking is why, in addition to storms, rain and floods, could there have not been a tsunami at the time of Noah, peace be upon him, which caused the whole human race which lived at the time to drown, except for those on the ark?
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Old 05-05-2005, 06:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Did an asteroid cause Noah's Flood Tsunami?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordoba
Neither, Jaiket.

Only a few months ago, we saw on TV how a tsunami can drown entire coastal villages in the matter of a few minutes and caused hundreds of thousands of casualities.

What I'm asking is why, in addition to storms, rain and floods, could there have not been a tsunami at the time of Noah, peace be upon him, which caused the whole human race which lived at the time to drown, except for those on the ark?
well... mostly, because no other cultures in the world report such a thing.

there are no reports from India or China of worldwide flooding events, or from North or South America. heck, whilst in your tradition the whole world is being flooded, the Mayan empire was busy building huge cities and pyramids in the midst of the jungle.

however... if you are asking if a tsunami could be created if there was a flood.. then the answer would depend. even when an earthquake happens in the ocean it does not always produce a tsunami of any significant size. the last one, a few weeks ago, was about 1 inch in height when it made land fall.
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Old 05-05-2005, 09:00 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Did an asteroid cause Noah's Flood Tsunami?

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well... mostly, because no other cultures in the world report such a thing.

there are no reports from India or China of worldwide flooding events, or from North or South America. heck, whilst in your tradition the whole world is being flooded, the Mayan empire was busy building huge cities and pyramids in the midst of the jungle.
Um, you're joking right? Cultures all around the world have flood myths. In the Hindu text, the Satpatha Brahmana, a king named Manu is saved from a world flood by a fish (Manu builds a big boat to survive - sound familiar, anyone?). In Aztec mythology, the goddess Chalchiuhtlicue was said to have unleashed a massive flood which destroyed the world. Even the Norse had some world-flood mythology. In fact, the only tradition I can think of which doesn't have a flood myth is Shintoism - but even that has tantalizing hints towards such a catyclism in the myth of Sosano the storm god.
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Old 05-05-2005, 10:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Did an asteroid cause Noah's Flood Tsunami?

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Originally Posted by KnightoftheRose
Um, you're joking right?
not really, no

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Cultures all around the world have flood myths.
sure thing... heck, some of them even have flood stories and all of that sort of thing.

Quote:
In the Hindu text, the Satpatha Brahmana, a king named Manu is saved from a world flood by a fish (Manu builds a big boat to survive - sound familiar, anyone?).
the Satpatha Brahmana is a Vedic period text... it's too late in the historical record to be a document of a world flood, per se. now.. if we can find something in the Vedas we'd be in the right time period, as it were.

Quote:
In Aztec mythology, the goddess Chalchiuhtlicue was said to have unleashed a massive flood which destroyed the world.
well... she destroyed the Fourth World.. and we are living in the Fifth World, thus, she has not wiped the wicked from this, particular, world just yet i do find the Central American belifes to be very interesting, i especially enjoy the archeology and the symbolism that they employed.

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Even the Norse had some world-flood mythology.
really? didn't know that.

Quote:
In fact, the only tradition I can think of which doesn't have a flood myth is Shintoism - but even that has tantalizing hints towards such a catyclism in the myth of Sosano the storm god.
now you know two... Buddhism has no flood myth

i suppose that i should clarify.. there are plenty of stories about floods throughout various human culture... which is pretty much what you'd expect for beings that mostly lived by the seas or rivers. what we don't have, however, is actual evidence that this took place on any sort of global scale... which is what i was trying to indicate...

perhaps, rather poorly
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Old 05-06-2005, 12:06 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Did an asteroid cause Noah's Flood Tsunami?

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Originally Posted by KnightoftheRose
Um, you're joking right?


Quote:
not really, no
Sorry, I just realized I sounded like a smartass there.

Quote:
which is pretty much what you'd expect for beings that mostly lived by the seas or rivers.
Good point.

Quote:
what we don't have, however, is actual evidence that this took place on any sort of global scale... which is what i was trying to indicate...
Thing is, if there were a great flood, it would've taken place long before man developed a script, which means the memory of it would've been carried on in oral tradition. Then, when script came into common usage, it would've been written down. So, if you're looking for primary sources on the flood...then y'aint gonna find any.

And if you're looking for hard evidence, well, you'd be chasing after some meager clues. Time heals all wounds, and there's been alot of time between us and the Flood to do the healing.

So, yeah, I'd agree with you - we are lacking in evidence, but then again, a lack of evidence doesn't signify something's untruth.
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Old 05-06-2005, 12:11 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Did an asteroid cause Noah's Flood Tsunami?

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Really, a theory needs evidence to make it credibly testable - in this instance, the person has basically posted that the Bible reports flooding, and that a strike from space might release water if at a glacier - but offers absolutely no supporting evidence as to how this might work.
If a large enough asteroid or whatever struck a glacier, the glacier would collapse. The sudden drop of the glacier into the ocean would cause the seas to displace, pouring all across the land. You know what you get into a bathtub, and the bathwater rises? Same principle.

An earthquake - or even an overly warm summer over the ice caps - could do all that, as well.
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Old 05-06-2005, 01:57 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Did an asteroid cause Noah's Flood Tsunami?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightoftheRose
If a large enough asteroid or whatever struck a glacier, the glacier would collapse. The sudden drop of the glacier into the ocean would cause the seas to displace, pouring all across the land. You know what you get into a bathtub, and the bathwater rises? Same principle.

An earthquake - or even an overly warm summer over the ice caps - could do all that, as well.
That would be one heck of a glacier!

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Old 05-06-2005, 07:11 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Did an asteroid cause Noah's Flood Tsunami?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightoftheRose
Um, you're joking right? Cultures all around the world have flood myths. In the Hindu text, the Satpatha Brahmana, a king named Manu is saved from a world flood by a fish (Manu builds a big boat to survive - sound familiar, anyone?). In Aztec mythology, the goddess Chalchiuhtlicue was said to have unleashed a massive flood which destroyed the world. Even the Norse had some world-flood mythology. In fact, the only tradition I can think of which doesn't have a flood myth is Shintoism - but even that has tantalizing hints towards such a catyclism in the myth of Sosano the storm god.
very good Knight I was counting the gallons of water & I think we are 2.55553 gallons short of having the possibility of the the whole earth being coverd by water for 8 months. But my math stinks, yet I believe just about anything is possible.
I guess some need to be in whirling, uncontrolled devastation before they believe.

Yes i believe there was also a tsunami, like hundreds all at once.
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Old 05-06-2005, 10:03 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Did an asteroid cause Noah's Flood Tsunami?

Simply dumping a glacier into any ocean is going to cause ripples, but ripples are going to fade pretty fast. Tsunami are different because you have the displacement of a huge body of water, rather than a single small localised object.

A principle concern with any kind of space-impact theory, though, is that there are plenty of objections being applied to even popular ideas, such as that of an asteroid impact ending the Cretaceous period, and the dinosaurs, 65 million years ago.

While we can say with general certainly that asteroids can impact the earth and cause a lot of local devastion, I personally have yet to see anyone successfully argue that such a local strike would cause global devastation. It's actually a pet peeve of mine - you can encounter all sorts of vague ideas, ie, strike results in global warming, volcanoes, destruction of the biosphere, etc - but there remains scant regard for the actual mechanics involved.

So the suggestion of a strike causing a global flood suffers the same objections, but additionally has problems with the vague frame of reference - ie, what actual time period are we talking about? Also, as above, there are plenty of flood stories, which perhaps isn't surprising as humanity traditionally settles by bodies of water (bodies of water which are prone to periodic catestrophic flooding) - but so far, there appears to be a lack of scientific evidence of any global flood.

As for local flooding - well, there's plenty of evidence of that - the flooding of the Black Sea is one particularly extreme flood, that should certainly have impacted on the consciousness of any humans who witnessed and survived that massive deluge (and as has been argued, is close enough to Mesopotamia to have been an influence on the people there, and their worldview).

It's also worth noting that the Biblical account appears to focus on heavy sustained rainfall effectively being a cause of the flooding.

So if there is to be an argument for a local flood or global flood, attributed to any time period or particularl Biblical period, then I personally find the idea of a space strike as a very unsatisfactory way to approach such an idea.

2c.
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