Did God Create Unbelievers?

InLove · 05-26-2005, 08:24 PM

Hi, Everyone--Peace to All,

I am currently editing (more like co-writing in the "ghost mode") a manuscript for a Christian client who submits that God did not create unbelievers. I find this interesting, but am a little unsure about how to treat it--I feel it needs a bit of elaboration or something. Would anyone care to discuss the statement, and help me free up my frozen cerebral cells? I really need to finish this job soon. My purpose is not to steal anyone's words, but to pick your brains

.

I posted this here on the Christianity board because, since this is a Christian book based on Christian principles, a debate over Creationism (in this case, anyway) would be useless to this particular endeavor. That is not to say that one needs to be a Christian to respond--all sincere replies are welcome.

Any thoughts?

InPeace,
InLove

path_of_one · 05-26-2005, 09:29 PM

If God didn't, and the person believes in creationism, who did? And what happens when unbelievers become believers? Seems really odd and confusing to me... I can't see any way out of this dilemma unless one is polytheistic and believes in a pantheon- the Christian God creating believers and another God/dess creating the others? And what to do with non-believers who are Jews? Or does this person disagree with the continuity of the Judeo-Christian God?

InLove · 05-26-2005, 10:25 PM

Ah--yes, then you see the problem I am having! I think I have a solution, as I think the author has misworded what he believes. Hearing your thoughts gives me an idea, though--if he is unhappy that I have changed his wording, then at least I can give him an idea of what sort of confusing questions his original statement can cause. Thanks!

InPeace,
InLove

Bandit · 05-27-2005, 07:02 AM

tell them, the devil creates unbelievers & see what they say.

i think everyone chooses there beliefs, there words & there actions & sometimes they are in line with the will of God & sometimes not.

path_of_one · 05-27-2005, 02:51 PM

Yep, that's about how I see it.

earl · 05-27-2005, 05:49 PM

My take on this is a little different in that my approach to Christian theology is not only apophatic but unconventional within that broad umbrella. Of course, first you have to define what you mean by "non-believers" & here I'm assuming you mean someone who doesn't believe in standard God of monotheism. What I think "God" implants into all "souls" is the impulse to transcend a concrete self-bound view of Life to rediscover their spiritual roots and ultimate home. I also believe that just as God obviously loves diversity of physical form, God also intends diversity of souls and soul paths. Transcendence comes in many packages-theistic and otherwise. Would we say an agnostic or even atheist who is transcending ego by devoting oneslef to humane and uplifting pursuits, who grows in selfless love is not doing "God's work?" So, just as God did not intend all life forms to look like each other, God wanted diversity in the human religious and spiritual condition. So, yes, my belief is as foregoing and that what "God" intends is that we all walk a path in the same general direction, but not necessarily the identicle path. Take care, Earl

Quahom1 · 05-27-2005, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InLove

Hi, Everyone--Peace to All,

I am currently editing (more like co-writing in the "ghost mode") a manuscript for a Christian client who submits that God did not create unbelievers. I find this interesting, but am a little unsure about how to treat it--I feel it needs a bit of elaboration or something. Would anyone care to discuss the statement, and help me free up my frozen cerebral cells? I really need to finish this job soon. My purpose is not to steal anyone's words, but to pick your brains

.

I posted this here on the Christianity board because, since this is a Christian book based on Christian principles, a debate over Creationism (in this case, anyway) would be useless to this particular endeavor. That is not to say that one needs to be a Christian to respond--all sincere replies are welcome.

Any thoughts?

InPeace,
InLove

Into every man's heart the truth is inscribed. What we do with that truth is our choice...

v/r

Q

truthseeker · 05-27-2005, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandit

tell them, the devil creates unbelievers & see what they say.

i think everyone chooses there beliefs, there words & there actions & sometimes they are in line with the will of God & sometimes not.

Hear! Hear!

Respectfully speaking - who is the audience that the author is trying to reach?

If I may throw the first penny in now...
The unbeliever is one who has yet to awaken to the spiritual realm. Even those who do not believe in a Creator Being could be believers because they may be awakened to the spiritual realm so they have an understanding. On a Christian note, one who is not saved is an unbeliever. To be saved is to transcend the polarity of good and evil - or in the bible believer's terms, to have a solid connection with Jesus by believing in his existence.

Is the author talking to a saved audience or an audience who is seeking salvation? Or is the author introducing the subject?

(Please forgive me if I am waaaaaay off subject....

)

Postmaster · 05-28-2005, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Did God Create Unbelievers?

Without reading the posts I will give my answer to your question, God created everything and so he created unbelievers too. If you read the Old Testament it tells us that God created man in the image of himself. Therefore we too are have great abilities and one of the greatest being free will. We living life to define ourselves and therefor we have choices to make. How boring would a world be if everything was perfect? What would be the point in life? We see the greatest miracle and magic right before our eyes yet our superiority denies it exsists.

Quahom1 · 05-28-2005, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postmaster

Without reading the posts I will give my answer to your question, God created everything and so he created unbelievers too. If you read the Old Testament it tells us that God created man in the image of himself. Therefore we too are have great abilities and one of the greatest being free will. We living life to define ourselves and therefor we have choices to make. How boring would a world be if everything was perfect? What would be the point in life? We see the greatest miracle and magic right before our eyes yet our superiority denies it exsists.

The Bible is explicit on the fact that all men know the basic truth...try reading that part. It's etched in our hearts. What we choose to do is a different matter all toghether.

v/r

Q

Postmaster · 05-28-2005, 01:28 AM

Quote:

The Bible is explicit on the fact that all men know the basic truth...try reading that part. It's etched in our hearts. What we choose to do is a different matter all toghether.

interesting..

InLove · 05-28-2005, 03:46 AM

Thanks, everyone--I appreciate your thoughts so much. I am about 3 chapters and a reference page away from completing this project, which has nineteen chapters. I started out as a proofreader, but I could not help making some suggestions on how I thought the manuscript could be improved, so that turned into editing, contributing, and pretty much co-writing. It has been about a year since I was hired, and I enjoy certain aspects of the job, but I am ready to be finished--guess that is obvious. When you are writing as someone else--a real person--and trying to relate their beliefs and convictions, your own tend to interfere. The author and I are both Christians, but we do not really know each other that well, and he has a bit more of a fundamentalist view of things than I do, even though much of what I believe is pretty "traditional", I suppose. I just have a much different way of expressing my thoughts than he does.

Anyway, I feel better knowing that the statement that troubled me was actually as confusing as I thought it was. It helps to ask others who are not so close to the project. You guys are great! Please continue with the conversation, if you want to. I have resolved the problem as best I know how by simply changing the statement "God did not create unbelievers" to "Surely God does not desire for us to be unbelievers." (If it were my own book, I probably would state things in yet even another way--but I won't go into that right now, since I've got to get back to work.

)

Truthseeker--the author tells me that this book is one "for believers, by a believer." But he does tend to stray from that audience from time to time. This particular chapter is one that is meant to encourage believers to remember that the victory over sin and death has already been won by Christ, and that we must have confidence in this in order to face our own battles every day. (Lots of quotes from Romans 8, of course!)

Again, really thoughtful replies from everyone. Makes for an interesting conversation.

InPeace,
InLove

Faithfulservant · 05-30-2005, 09:59 AM

You probably already finished this project but I wanted to add my 2 cents

God created us all.. He is our Creator God, Elohim.

I believe in predestination.. I believe that HE chose us first..

"For those God foreknew are also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of His Son...And those he predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified" (Rom.8:29-30, NIV).

*2 Thess 2:11-14--God has chosen you from the beginning of creation.

*Eph 1:3 - 14--you were predestined before the foundation of the world.

*Acts 13:48--you believe because you were appointed to believe.

*2 Tim 1:9-- [H e] saved us and called us with a holy calling NOT according to OUR works, but according to HIS purpose.

*Romans 9:20-21--God created vessels of wrath and also vessels of mercy PREPARED BEFOREHAND for glory.

*Eph 2:1-5--when we were DEAD, HE made us alive.

*Romans 9:14-18--it doesn't depend on OUR will, but on GOD.

*John 1:12-13--it is NOT the will of the flesh, or the will of man, but of GOD

*Colossians 3:12--it is the choice of God.

*1 Thess 1:4-5--it HIS choice of you NOT your choice of Him!

*1 Cor 1:30--it is by HIS doing you are in Christ!

Dor · 05-30-2005, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earl

So, just as God did not intend all life forms to look like each other, God wanted diversity in the human religious and spiritual condition. So, yes, my belief is as foregoing and that what "God" intends is that we all walk a path in the same general direction, but not necessarily the identicle path. Take care, Earl

I see this quite often on here and it always brings one thing to mind....
Mat 7:13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in there at:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

path_of_one · 05-30-2005, 09:11 PM

I would agree with that biblical quote, but disagree on how it is applied. Most apply it as a symbol of one's religion. I would apply it as a symbol of one's spirituality (personal relationship with God). Two quite different meanings. I am reminded about the story of the good Samaritan, who was a gentile, and yet was praised by Jesus because his actions were evidence that he was walking the narrow path.

There are many whose lives are focused on this world- in short, on themselves. There are few whose lives are focused on God, and who are willing to detach from themselves, to pour out themselves in order to be filled with God. Indeed, broad is the path that leads to destruction, not only of one's spiritual connection to God, but also to the destruction of goodness on this earth.