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Old 12-07-2011, 05:49 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Dis-info about authentic Hinduism

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Originally Posted by bhaktajan View Post
Being lead by a ring in the nose is the status quo of sense-gratification.

All famous wrestlers seek the Good Fight.

The warrior prowess of mankind cannot be extinguished.

They do enjoy the fight.

All will die ---the aim is to know what has been imparted by the earlier generations so as to achieve the goal of life's trials ---versus --- dying like a fool unexpectedly in the streets thus providing little more than some overtime pay for the Union-ised professions and/or a chartered accountant at an insurance company's billing department.
In the action movie, when one of the characters dies in the scene, has the actor been effected at all? When the director yells "cut", the actor simply gets up and goes to lunch... the scene has added to the movie, made it more exciting, more interesting... it is merely a leela though, naught but maya.

This is what Krishna expresses to Arjuna to show that there is nothing wrong in the war - Arjuna is too much obsessed with this place though, too much caught up in the movie to see what is happening.

It is not so different to us jumping while watching a scary movie, or crying during a romantic movie.
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:21 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Dis-info about authentic Hinduism

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Originally Posted by Lunitik View Post
In the action movie,
Arjuna is too much obsessed
It is not so different to us jumping while watching a scary movie, or crying during a romantic movie.

Arjuna was one of the greatest skilled warriors ever imaginable.

He was faced with killing Kinsmen, who were avaricious.
The circumstances had shaken Arjuna's resolve.

Bhagavad Gita As It Is, 2: Contents of the Gita Summarized, Text 4.
Arjuna said: O killer of Madhu [Krsna], how can I counterattack with arrows in battle men like Bhisma and Drona, who are worthy of my worship?


Bhagavad Gita As It Is, 2: Contents of the Gita Summarized, Text 5.
It is better to live in this world by begging than to live at the cost of the lives of great souls who are my teachers. Even though they are avaricious, they are nonetheless superiors. If they are killed, our spoils will be tainted with blood.

Bhagavad Gita As It Is, 2: Contents of the Gita Summarized, Text 6.
Nor do we know which is better--conquering them or being conquered by them. The sons of Dhrtarastra, whom if we kill we should not care to live, are now standing before us on this battlefield.

Bhagavad Gita As It Is, 2: Contents of the Gita Summarized, Text 7.
Now I am confused about my duty and have lost all composure because of weakness. In this condition I am asking You to tell me clearly what is best for me. Now I am Your disciple, and a soul surrendered unto You. Please instruct me.

Bhagavad Gita As It Is, 2: Contents of the Gita Summarized, Text 8.
I can find no means to drive away this grief which is drying up my senses. I will not be able to destroy it even if I win an unrivaled kingdom on earth with sovereignty like the demigods in heaven.

. . .

Having spoken thus, Arjuna, chastiser of enemies, told Krsna, "Govinda, I shall not fight," and fell silent.

Bhagavad Gita As It Is, 2: Contents of the Gita Summarized, Text 32.
O Partha, happy are the ksatriyas to whom such fighting opportunities come unsought, opening for them the doors of the heavenly planets.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Concern of the Prince Arjuna was ---He was going to kill real people, people that were his kin and friends.

So similarly we humans are related by 3-degrees of seperation ---yet in Kali-yuga we canabalise eachother while trying to become our own Personal Tony Soprano or Tony Montana, aiming to be lord of all we survey ---but we are "stunads con testa d'meirda gofones que mangia corpos mortos".

"whenever one murderer is in prisoned; twelve surviving victims pay for his free lawyer and free health benefits for life ---without the benefit of adjustments for inflation"
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:46 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Dis-info about authentic Hinduism

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Concern of the Prince Arjuna was ---He was going to kill real people, people that were his kin and friends.

So similarly we humans are related by 3-degrees of seperation ---yet in Kali-yuga we canabalise eachother while trying to become our own Personal Tony Soprano or Tony Montana, aiming to be lord of all we survey ---but we are "stunads con testa d'meirda gofones que mangia corpos mortos".

"whenever one murderer is in prisoned; twelve surviving victims pay for his free lawyer and free health benefits for life ---without the benefit of adjustments for inflation"
You quote summations of Arjuna's words to make your point, yet Arjuna is not the Avatar - I go on telling you Arjuna is the personification of what was wrong with the Hindu's that Krishna has come to change...

Krishna goes on telling Arjuna that this is just a play of existence, that his clinging to these people is creating his problem. He tells Arjuna to see it is a game, not to take it so seriously because none will actually die on the field - in fact, none of the field actually exist, they are just characters of God, performing a scene of God's liking. The essence of all is the same, and that essence cannot be killed even as you watch their form die.
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Old 12-09-2011, 04:52 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Dis-info about authentic Hinduism

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Krishna goes on telling Arjuna that . . .
"Smarana" This is what it all boiled down to.

When a Master Fighter with super-human prowess must act ---he must "enter the zone" and then, live or die.


In contra-distinction to the old rock song lyrics:
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me,
Jokers to the right, here I am,
Stuck in the middle with you.

Yes I'm stuck in the middle with you,
Krishna stood beside Arjuna, so, the expeditious chance to personally inform Arjuna was at hand, when Arjuna fell silent and sat down and said, "Govinda! I shall not fight"

---thus, the summation was to "Alway remember Krishna's favor in all acts great, small, and obliged and especially mortal events ---and thus, thinking of Krishna in all circumstances

. . . all fear is removed, since remeberence of Krishna, especially at death, assures liberation". Arjuna acted begrudingly along ---ie, especially when he had to shoot down Pita-ma Bhishma.

Seperation and renunciation and total focus toward one's single-minded pursuit of occupational duties = Life's personal self-rewards.

Occupational duty = Dharma.
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Old 12-09-2011, 06:12 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Dis-info about authentic Hinduism

Still you identify more with Arjuna, although you have drawn closer to Krishna when you say 'he must "enter the zone" and then, live or die'. Let me ask, what is the nature or essence of a man? Is that affected one way or another when the body dies?
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Old 12-09-2011, 07:06 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Dis-info about authentic Hinduism

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Still you identify more with Arjuna, although you have drawn closer to Krishna when you say 'he must "enter the zone" and then, live or die'. Let me ask, what is the nature or essence of a man? Is that affected one way or another when the body dies?

Krishna gave a “Crash-Course” on the goal and appilication of Yoga self-realisation in the midst of work and activities. Since the maxim is known, ‘there is danger at every step within the material world’ ---the alternative for a sober gentleman, is to enter ashram life immediately ---all others will be involved indefinitely in material pursuits, thus ensnaring themselves in network maya and samsara ---until the Absolute Godhead reveals Himself as-He-is. Krishna did just that for His friend the prince Arjuna.

Bhagavad-gītā 7.30:
Those who know Me as the Supreme Lord, as the governing principle of the material manifestation, who know Me as the one underlying all the demigods and as the one sustaining all sacrifices, can, with steadfast mind, understand and know Me even at the time of death.

Bhagavad-gītā 8.1:
Arjuna inquired:

"O my Lord, O Supreme Person, what is Brahman? What is the self? What are fruitive activities? What is this material manifestation? And what are the demigods? Please explain this to me."

Bhagavad-gītā 8.2:
"How does this Lord of sacrifice live in the body, and in which part does He live, O Madhusudana? And how can those engaged in devotional service know You at the time of death?"

Bhagavad-gītā 8.3:
The Supreme Lord said:

"The indestructible, transcendental living entity is called Brahman, and his eternal nature is called the self. Action pertaining to the development of these material bodies is called karma, or fruitive activities."

Bhagavad-gītā 8.4:
"Physical nature is known to be endlessly mutable. The universe is the cosmic form of the Supreme Lord, and I am that Lord represented as the Supersoul, dwelling in the heart of every embodied being."

Bhagavad-gītā 8.5:
"And whoever, at the time of death, quits his body, remembering Me alone, at once attains My nature. Of this there is no doubt."

Bhagavad-gītā 8.6:
"Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, that state he will attain without fail."

Bhagavad-gītā 8.10:
“One who, at the time of death, fixes his life air between the eyebrows and, by the strength of yoga, with an undeviating mind, engages himself in remembering the Supreme Lord in full devotion, will certainly attain to the Supreme Personality of Godhead.”
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Old 06-15-2012, 02:27 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Dis-info about authentic Hinduism

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Let me ask, what is the nature or essence of a man? Is that affected one way or another when the body dies?
Different hindus will give different answers for this. And that is perfectly OK. People may have various views and hinduism accepts that. Different views are known as 'matas' (opinions). Our books say 'munde-munde matir-bhinna' (different heads have different opinions).

If you ask me (I am an atheist, advaitist, and a person greatly influenced by sciences), I would say the essence of man or any other thing in the universe or the universe itself is 'physical energy' (like in heat, electricity, magnetism, gravity, light, etc.) 'Physical energy' makes up the mass (Higgs Boson still to be found, Boson has been coined after an Indian physicist, Satyendra Nath Bose of Bengal, who along with Einstein postulated its existence).

After death, the human body (and that is the whole of it) disintegrates. Its constituents are absorbed by other things in the environment. When my body is cremated, it will turn into water vapor, carbon-di-oxide, and lime (calcium oxide) to account for the major constituents of human body.
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:48 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Dis-info about authentic Hinduism

Aupmanyav, by Gosh, your tolerance and inclusiveness are so natural... and rational (scientific). I really believe we are on parallel paths. Inclusiveness of the spirit of Religions and the spirit of science.

My big thing is doubt and uncertainty (a "Doubting Thomas" of the externals of Religion and a "Thomas Bayes" when it comes to science). There is some criteria, called Truth, which I do not believe is obtainable my humans or any other sentient entity. So I qualify all my statements and quantify all my uncertainties in analysis. However, I am not a material monist but have come to hold both a Pragmatic and Process Philosophy viewpoint (and a Process Theology viewpoint therein).

I really enjoy your comments, Friend.
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Old 06-15-2012, 06:15 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Dis-info about authentic Hinduism

I checked my CP. You are yet not my friend, though I might be looking forward for it. Thank hinduism for my tolerance and inclusiveness.

Keep up hope. Perhaps future generations will find the truth. It is not available at present. Accept that guesses are all that we are eligible to at the moment, whether in science or in philosophy. The doubts and uncertainty will vanish.
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:23 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Dis-info about authentic Hinduism

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Different hindus will give different answers for this.
Is Krishna's Opinion NOT Hindu?

First offer a "Different hindus" opinion on the matter?

When I visit communist countries I teach classes that begin:
"Free-enterprise" & "Democracy" begins when you fork over your money to me ---give me some money ---and then, you will a businessman ---please pay me now your cash ---don't you want to be a businessman. The down side is I have to dissappear for a while and re-locate to a different town each week.

Many defendents express different means of expressing "Free-enterprise" & "Democracy" ---ask the Greeks.

How many people in India are Illiterate? The Majority?
Does that Majority occupy their days discussing philosophy?

Is the problem in India that know one really knows what sanskrit says?
Has India Intellegencia hiding that know one really knows how to read sanskrit?

Is sanskrit beyond decipherment? Is that what is going on?

AC Bhaktivedanta followed age-old tradition of the Swami who publishes His Own Commentary of the Bhagavad-gita ---nothing new there in the literary tradition of the Gita's explanation.

That is why AC Bhaktivedanta titled His Own Commentary of the Bhagavad-gita:
Bhagavad-gita ---AS-IT-IS.

The use of the appendage and any other CLARIFICATIONS that AC Bhaktivedanta made in his Gita ----This is the sort of OBJECTION Aupmanyav points out as problematic ---I disagree. To educate India & the world to India's Heritage requires "NEGATION" and esp and sort of divide and conquer strategem.

Why would a highly educated westerner want to repeat the same mistakes Ringo Starr made?

Why be so close so far?

For the good of the God, what is the word "Aupmanyav" mean?
What is its ethomology? What is its component root parts; ie: prefix+root+Suffix?

Digress away if you prefer.
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Old 06-16-2012, 03:46 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Dis-info about authentic Hinduism

Hare-Krishnas, Achintya Bheda-Abheda Advaita, is one of the many respected advaita philosophies in hinduism. Then there is dvaita philosophy of Madhvacharya. Then there are Shaivas (worshipers of Lord Shiva), Shaktas (worshippers of the Mother Goddess), and Smartas (who go according to Vedas). Hinduism is not a monolith, it is not monotheistic, it does not have one book or one God. It gives you the right to think that way but does not allow you to impose your view on others. It is a multi-faceted religion, like a stained glass window. I am happy that it is like that.
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Old 06-16-2012, 04:34 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Dis-info about authentic Hinduism

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For the good of the God, what is the word "Aupmanyav" mean? What is its ethomology?
"Aupmanyav" is a patronym which means a descendant of Sage Upamanyu. He was the son of Sage 'Vyaghrapada' (Tiger's or Leopard's feet). The family is an off-shoot of Sage Vasishtha. That is the family (Gotra -lineage) to which I am supposed to belong.

Vasistha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, Upamanyu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Upamanyu is the writer of a verse in RigVeda dedicated to Soma-Pavamana. His hermitage is mentioned in Srimad Bhagawad Purana. Lord Krishna visited his hermitage and was blessed by the Sage that his son also would be just as handsome as he himself was (Pradyumna). It seems that Sage Upamanyu married a Bactrian lady, Austrakshi. Upamanyu is mentioned as a "Kamboja" (Northern Afghanistan).

The first mention of 'Aupmanyava' (descendants of Sage Upamanyu - Aupamanyava - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) is in the writings of Yaska (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yāska), a Sanskrit grammarian and commentator, who lived around 700 BC (obviously, Aupmanyava must have lived prior to him).

"Aupmanyava" too was a Sanskrit grammarian and Vedic commentator. He is known to have commented on why Lord Vishnu was called a "shipivishta" in RigVeda (VII.100.6). "Shipivishta" normally has a bad meaning in Sanskrit (enveloped like private parts, afflicted with a disease, etc).

In the verse, Lord Vishnu is compared to winter sun, which was hidden during the long, cold, and dark Arctic night when the Aryans lived in that region. But it was only one form of Lord Vishnu. When the spring came, sun (Lord Vishnu) appears in his full resplendant glory.

My grandfather, Pandit Bishweshwar Nath Reu (Bishweshwar Nath Reu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), was a Sanskritist and historian. He wrote a smriti, which was published with the name 'Vishweshwara Smriti". He had written two books on Vedas. So, by commenting on hinduism and Vedas, I am only continuing my family tradition which is at least 3,000 years old.
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Old 06-16-2012, 05:05 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Dis-info about authentic Hinduism

"Kim it te Vishno parichakshyam bhūta para yada vavakshe shipivishto asmi;
mā varpo asmada apa ghūha etad yad anyarūpah samithe babhūtha."

What was there to be blamed in thee, O Vishnu, when thou declaredst - I am Shipivishta?
Hide not this form from us, nor keep it secret, since thou didst wear another shape in battle.
Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 7: HYMN C. Viṣṇu.

You can find the explanation at Lokamanya Bal Gangadhar Tilak — The Arctic Home in the Vedas — Chapter 10 (Page 306-7-8)
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Old 06-17-2012, 02:09 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Dis-info about authentic Hinduism

a] Is there a 'sutra' on your left shoulder?

b] You are from Vasistha's vamsa?

Quote:
Yes, I missed the purpose of Puranas. It was social welfare, to show people how to behave in a civil society and live peacefully.


http://www.interfaith.org/forum/question-on-hindu-dharma-14752.html#post269310
VASISTHA-MUNI-DEVA is the MOST INTERESTING PERSONALITY in ALL the VEDAS!

I have unlimited affection for Srila Vasistha deva [son of Lord Brahma]. I look foward to knowing all his biography. He is so endearing ---why?

He re-appears time and again through-out the Veda's Histories.

We know the special Fame Vasishtha & his wife have in the heavens.

Tell me of Sri Vasishtha.

Quote:
it does not have one book or one God.
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Old 06-17-2012, 03:00 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Dis-info about authentic Hinduism

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Hinduism is not a monolith, it is not monotheistic, it does not have one book or one God.
That is not how the Devas and Brahma-pita-maha think.

Seems the word "Deva" is always considered as plural.

That is because it is. The Devas are cousins and progeny of Lord Brahma pitama.

In the material world we Live together ---but far apart with the devas and davanas.

They don't visit here much . . . IMHO, because, we smell badly. The whole planets IMHO stinks if a Deva were to outsider stepping foot upon terrafirma. Maybe it's just the concominant quality of terrafirma to smell like 'peat'.


Hinduism is monolith,
it is monotheistic,
it has one Library of Literature; and, one God.

What ever differs from your POV is due to a parsed familarity with the whole library.
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