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04-19-2007, 09:20 PM
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Discussing Taqlid
Salamualikum wr wb Sister Muslimwoman,
You can discuss about Taqlid on this thread sister [everyone is invited to discuss/debate/voice their opinions as well], I will re-post my last post...on here so you may answer it. Salaam  |
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04-19-2007, 09:38 PM
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#2 (permalink) |
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Re: Discussing Taqlid
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Originally Posted by Muslimwoman Ass salaam aleykum Brother Abdullah Please forgive me if I have misunderstood your comments. You appear to be implying that laypeople have no moral judgement and are incapable of understanding what Allah requires of us. wa alaikum salam wr wb sister. What I am saying sister, is that lay people [non-Mujtahidoun] are not qualified to perform ijtihad, nothing more, nothing less. smile. Quote: Originally Posted by muslimwoman I kept coming across this topic on various sites so decided to ask an Imam for the definitive answer, I have copied and pasted his whole reply as I feel it is not only pertinent but far sighted: You have apperantly asked a 'Salafi'/Wahhabi Imam and he has given you an answer that goes against the view of the traditional Scholars. Quote: Originally Posted by muslimwoman Bismillahir-RaHmanir-RaHeem. The Glorious Qur'an says: "And hold fast,All together, by the rope Which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves;" [Al-Qur'an 3:103]... Agreed hundred percent; but the irony of the imaam saying that, is that he himself has decided to divide himself from the traditional Scholars in the matter of taqleed atleast. Quote: Originally Posted by muslimwoman If only all Muslims read the Qur'an with understanding and adhere to Sahih Hadith... Agreed Quote: Originally Posted by muslimwoman It is not obligatory for a Muslim to follow any particular madhhab among these four. It is the ijma [consensus] of the traditional Scholars that one of these four madhabs has to be adhered to by the laymen, for the laymen does not have the pre-requsite knowedge and qualities to perform ijtihad. Quote: Originally Posted by muslimwoman People vary in their level of understanding and ability to derive rulings from the evidence. There are some for whom it is permissible to follow (taqleed), and indeed it may be obligatory in their case. It is obligatory for all non-mujtahids to adhere to taqlid, for the pre-requisite knowledge that qualifies one as a Mujtahid is absolutely essential in order to perfrom ijtihad. InshAllah I will be posting soon, a list of all the pre-requisite knowledge and qualites that is required to perfrom ijtihad. Quote: Originally Posted by muslimwoman There are others who can only follow the shar’i evidence. Yes, and they are the mujtahidoun. Quote: Originally Posted by muslimwoman Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah are not to be regarded as opposition to the Maalikis, Shaafa’is, Hanbalis and the like, rather they are opposed to the followers of innovated and misguided beliefs and ways such as the Ash’aris, Mu’tazilis, Murji’is, Sufis and so on. The School of Ashari is infact a traditional School of theology/Aqeedah [not a School of fiqh] which many Scholars of the Ahle Sunnah Wal Jamaah base their Aqeedah upon. it is a righteous School of theology. Many Sufi's are upon righteous too, although some sufi's have adopted bidah [and possbily shirk too] in their tariqahs Quote: Originally Posted by muslimwoman The Hanafis, Maalikis, Shaafa’is and Hanbalis are schools of fiqh, whose imams are among Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah, and indeed are among the leaders of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah. But unfortunately the followers of most of those madhhabs and schools of fiqh have begun to follow the people of innovation and misguidance in their beliefs, so many of the Shaafa’is and Maalikis have become Ash’aris, and many of the Hanafis have become Maatireedis. Maturidi is a righteous School of Aqeedah too, and ahle Sunnah Wal Jamaah Scholars form their Aqeeadah from iether of these two Schools or from Aqeedah At-Tahawiyyah...so that means that the followerd of the four Schools of thought have not strayed from the orignal teachings of these Schools. it is only the Wahhabi's that have decided to follow Scholars who have gone against the Hanbali School of thought, such as Ibn Taymiyyah and Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab, that have strayed from the original teachings of the Hanbali School in many matters, and yet claim to follow the Hanbali School in these matters? Quote: Originally Posted by muslimwoman But with regard to ‘aqeedah, the Hanbalis – apart from a very few – have been spared the change to something other than the ‘aqeedah of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah. And these relatively 'verry few' that have strayed from the Aqeedah of ahle Sunnah Wal Jamaah which the hanabli School's Aqeedah is based upon, are the so called Salafis... Quote: Originally Posted by muslimwoman The basic principle concerning the Muslim is that he adheres to the Qur’aan and Sunnah according to the understanding of the companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and those who followed them in guidance. Agreed. Quote: Originally Posted by muslimwoman As for following one of these four madhhabs or any other, that is not obligatory or recommended, It is indeed obligatory and most defenitely reccomended for those who are not mujtahids. Quote: Originally Posted by muslimwoman and the Muslim does not have to adhere to any one of them in particular. Rather the one who adheres to a particular madhhab in every issue is being a partisan who is guilty of blind following. That is not true. The four Schools of thought are the only surviving traditional Schools of thought....the traditional Scholars have, unaniomously, only enjoined the following [for the laymen] of these four Schools of thought and prohibbited the following of any other. Quote: Originally Posted by muslimwoman End quote. Hal al-Muslim mulzim bi Ittibaa’ Madhhab mu’ayyin min al-Madhhab al-Arba’ah? By al-Ma’soomi, p. 38. There is nothing wrong with following the four schools of fiqh if a Muslim does not have sufficient knowledge to enable him to derive rulings from the Qur’aan and Sunnah himself, Not only is there nothing wrong in doing so, but it is also fardh for one who does not have suffiiceint knowledge, to follow one of the four Schools. And 'sufficient knowledge' is the knowledge [and qualities] which qualify one as a Mujtahid. Quote: Originally Posted by muslimwoman but if it becomes clear to him that the correct view is other than that of his madhhab, then he must follow the correct view and not his madhhab. If he is not a mujtahid, then it cannot become clear to him, for he will not be able to view the evidence in the comprehensive contextual way, for in order to do so, he will have to have the insight of a Mujtahid. [for example, one of the pre-requisite knowledge of a mujtahid is to be a master of the Arabic language and other ancillary sciences. If he does not have this mastery insight into the words of the hadith/Quranic verse, then that is just one of the barriers in him having a clear and precise insight into the evidence, and likewise, all his other ignorance of the sciences needed for ijtihad, are barriers as well in him being able to precisley judge the evidence from an expert and comprehensively contextual point of view. In other words, for him to be able to judge accurately the evidence he come across, he will have to perform ijtihad himself, and he just does not have the pre-requisite knowlege to perfom ijtihad. Quote: Originally Posted by muslimwoman Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: In the Qur’aan, Allaah condemns the one who turns away from following the Messengers and follows instead the religion invented by his forefathers. This is imitation (taqleed) which is forbidden by Allaah and His Messenger, i.e., following someone other than the Messenger in matters that go against the Messenger. This is haraam for everyone according to the consensus of the Muslims, for there is no obedience to any created being if it involves disobedience towards the Creator. Agreed, but the concept of taqleed of the four Imaams/Madhabs, is following those who have a DEEP knowledge of the Quran and Sunnah and who have interpreted it for us according to this deep knowledge and insight that they have, so following them is the verry essence of following the Quran and Sunnah, and this kind of taqleed is not forbidden. it is the kind, as said above, that goes against the obedience of Allah and His Messenger [saw] that is forbidden. not the kind that is in accordance with it. Quote: Originally Posted by muslimwoman Obedience to the Messenger is obligatory for every one, elite and common folk alike, at all times and in all places, both inwardly and outwardly, and in all situations… Allaah has enjoined obedience to the Messenger upon all people, in approximately forty places in the Qur’aan. Agreed. Quote: Originally Posted by muslimwoman It is permissible for one who is unable to derive rulings to follow a scholar, according to the majority of scholars Agreed, and not only is it permissable, but it is obligatory upon them to, for if one who is unable to perform ijtihad does not follow one who is, then how will he know what the correct interpretation or the practices of Islam is?. Such a person is not allowed to derive rulings from the Quran and Sunnah from his ignorance [extremely limmited knolwdge] Cybepi is a good example of what happens when laymen start forming their own personal opinions by reading the just reading the apperant meaning of the Quran. Quote: Originally Posted by muslimwoman the kind of imitation or following that is forbidden by the texts and according to scholarly consensus is that which goes against the words of Allaah and His Messenger. end quote. [Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 19/260-266 ] May Allah guide us all to the straight path! Wassalam and Allah Almighty knows best. Agreed. Salaam |
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04-20-2007, 12:03 AM
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Coexistence insha'Allah
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Re: Discussing Taqlid
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I would like in this post just to address the issue of blind following for now if that is ok. Quote:
Allah tells us to obey those with knowledge and authority, so of course I have no problem with following the scholars in matters that I do not understand. However, some people look upon these scholars as infallable, thinking they simply cannot be wrong. "The saying of everyone may be taken or rejected except for the companion of this grave" and he pointed to the grave of the Prophet (saw) "It is not permissible for any one to give judgement with our saying unless they know the source from which we took it" "If the hadeeth is found to be authentic then it is my madhab" "If I say something then compare it to the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of His Messenger and if it agrees to them,then accept it and that which goes against them,then reject it and throw my saying against the wall". I am sure you will recognise these as the words of the original 4 Imams (may Allah enter them into paradise). Quote:
They also, at the same time, closed down ijtihad so that independant reasoning was effectively forbidden. This was in the 14th century, so at this time the ulama changed Islam. In the time of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) and for a considerable time after that, the imja referred to the Muslim community and independant thought, within the parameters of Islam was encouraged. This was the era that ijtihad gave way to taqlid and the Quran became frozen in time. Muslim thought went from constructive reasoning and thirst for knowledge to stagnation and blind following. Yes we are told to follow a school of our choice and they do this for reasons of personal consistency or people will pick and choose according to their desires, not because they feel another school has more credibility in an issue. However, what worries me is that the four schools differ greatly on certain issues and they are all caught in the stagnation caused by al Ghazzali and the ulama of the 14th century. This was clearly demonstrated when the ulama banned the printing press for 300 years after the time of al Ghazzali. Does that sound familiar? Sounds llike the insistance of the Christian priesthood that the Bible only be published in Latin because laypeople didnt have enough knowledge to understand it. Quote:
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"If I say something then compare it to the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of His Messenger and if it agrees to them,then accept it and that which goes against them,then reject it and throw my saying against the wall". I can only give an extreme example to make my point. In 2003 a high-level Saudi jurist, Shaykh Saleh al-Fawzan, issued a fatwa claiming “Slavery is a part of Islam. Slavery is part of jihad, and jihad will remain as long there is Islam.” He attacked Muslim scholars who said otherwise maintaining, “They are ignorant, not scholars ... They are merely writers. Whoever says such things is an infidel.” At the time of the fatwa, Al-Fawzan was a member of the Senior Council of Clerics, Saudi Arabia’s highest religious body, a member of the Council of Religious Edicts and Research, the Imam of Prince Mitaeb Mosque in Riyadh, and a professor at Imam Mohamed Bin Saud Islamic University, the main Wahhabi center of learning in the country. When we read further into the subject and ideals of Sheikh al-Fawzan, we see that he is not discussing taking slaves during wartime. He is in fact suggesting that young female slaves be taken, so that the right hand possesses them (and we know what that means). So should we follow this man blindly? Or should we read the Quran and Sunnah and reason that Islam never intended slavery to be used just to satisfy mens desires? I know that is an extreme issue but a few prominent Sheikhs have backed his fatwa. My issue is who should we follow? Who, in this day and age, really looks for the good of Islam and the Ummah, rather than for their own power and desires? Basically I am asking who can we trust? As a woman these contentious issues tend to arise more frequently than they do for men. I would be very interested in your comments Brother. Salaam |
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04-20-2007, 05:40 PM
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Re: Discussing Taqlid
Assalamualikum wr wb sister,
Taqlid only concerns that which is not obvious, so your right that there are things which we [the laymen] ourselves can know without reffering to the Scholars. The advocates of Taqlid claim nothing more than the following: 1. There is no Taqlid in the fundemental Beliefs in Islam 2. There is no Taqlid in issues which are obvious and which have been transmitted to the degree that they have become almost undoubted 3. There is no Taqlid in those issues of the Quran and Sunnah which are conclusive and not contradictory. 4 Taqlid is made on those issues which there are different and perhaps contradictory statements on the same issue in the Quran and Sunnah and where instead of relying on one's own judgement, the opinion of an expert Scholar is trusted and adhered to. 5 The Mujtahid is not infallible and therefore his opinions are subject to correction 6 If an expert Scholar finds a sound hadith to which there is no contradictions, then he must forsake the opinion of his Imam and follow the hadith. 90-91 Now the way the traditional Scholars interpret those statements of the Mujtahid Imaams that suggests that people shouldn't just accept any of their sayings without checking it with the Quran and Sunnah, is that these statements are only directed towards the Mujtahids and not the muqallids [laymen]. Here is an example of how traditional Scholars interpret these sayings of the imaams: Imaam Maalik said regarding the difference of opinions amongst the Sahabah [ra]: "Among them is the one that is wrong and the one that is right: therefore you must exercise ijtihad." Ibn -Al Salah explained the above swtatement as such: "...this applies exclusively to the mujtahid as he said: "you must exercise ijtihad," because the mujtahid's competence makes him legally responsible (mukallaf) to exercise ijtihad and there is no flexibility allowed for him over the matter of their difference. The flexibility applies exclusively to the unqualified follower (muqallid)" There is evidence from the lives and sayings of the Imaams themselves that they have endorsed taqlid: The Imaams lives were filled with incidences and occasions where laypeople asked them hundreds of questions to which they answered without volunteering any proofs. Taqllid's permissability was never questioned during the era of the mujtahid's. If such a practice were held to be invalid, the imaams would never have allowed themselves to be it's tools. Hasan has narrated from Imaam Abu Hanifa: "When the mufti is such that he is a mujtahid, then the layperson must follow him, even if the mufti has erred in his judgement; Ibn Rustum from Muhammad and Bashir Ibn Walid from Abu Yusuf [I think Muhammad and Abu Yusuf were two Mujtahid students of Abu Hanifa...] Imam Abu yusuf continues: "The layperson must follow the jurists, since he is not capable of understanding the hadith independently" Ibn Taymiyyah reprted that Imaam Ahmed Ibn Hanbal used to: "instruct the layperson to ask Ibn Ishak, Abu Thaur and Abu Musab. However he used to prohibit his companions like Abu Dawood, Uthman Ibn Saeed, Ibraheem Al Harbi, Abu Bakar al Athrum, etc, etc, to follow anyone. He would say to them: "You must follow the source of the Quran and Sunnah". This statement of Ibn Taymiyyah makes it verry clear that taqlid was unsuitable only for those Scholars/students who themselves were jurists...as for those who did not possess the requsite qualifications, they are strongly implored to follow a mujtahid and practice taqlid. Infact Taqlid for the non-Scholar was so overwhelmingly accepted amongst the Scholars, that only the mutazilah disagreed with the idea. 94-95 |
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04-20-2007, 05:50 PM
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Re: Discussing Taqlid
Now regarding the major differences of opinions in the four madhab, Islam allows differences of opinions. There is a hadith in which the Prophet [saw] said: "Difference of opinion in my Community is a mercy for people"
these are just some of the evidence that difference of opinions in the four school of thought [even though it may be major] are allowed in Islam and is a mercy to the Umaah. So it is clear to see from the above evidence that the traditional Scholars are correct in their opinion of taqlid and of valid differences of opinions, and that these two opinions of theirs is based on the Quran and Sunnah, and that they havn't 'changed' from the original Islam. |
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04-20-2007, 05:53 PM
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#6 (permalink) |
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Re: Discussing Taqlid
The above evidence has also showed that the view of acceptance of taqlid and acceptance of differences of opinions, is based on evidence from the first three centuries of Islam and that it weren't adopted as a bidah in the fourteenth cenutry.
And regarding the view that the traditional Scholars 'changed' Islam in the fourteenth century, there is evidence in the Quran and Sunnah that there will ALLWAYS be a group of people that will have the correct interpretation of Islam and will be on the right path untill the last day so that means that the Islamic teachings couldn't have been distorted in the fourteenth century, and thus the comrehensively true teachings of Islam lost untill the Salafi's came along to interpret Islam correctly again: Mufti Taqi Usmani says on a simmilar issue: Indeed We have revealed the Zikr (ie. the Qur’ân) and surely We will preserve it. (15:9) In this verse, Allâh Almighty has assured the preservation of the Holy Qur’ân. This implies that the Qur’ân will remain uninterpolated and that it shall always be transferred from one generation to the other in its real and original form ... http://ccm-inc.org/oldsite/iqra/arti...sun/chap3.html There is a hadith that says: "There will always be a group from my Community that fight for truth and remain victorious until Judgment Day." Ijma - consensus of scholars Which corrobarates the view that there will allways be a group of people that will be on the right path. And rationality dictates that if there will allways be a group of people on the right path, then it has to be a traditional group. I posted a post once on another forum to show some 'modernist' sisters that they should adopt the traditional view that hijab is fardh, as there is a traditional consensus on this view, and in the process of pointing out to them of how the traditional consensus could not be wrong, I pointed out to them the correct group of muslims that are on the right path. I will cut and paste that post below inshAllah, as it provides evidence that the four Schools of thought are amongst/comprise of the traditional group that have not strayed from the right path. |
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04-20-2007, 06:05 PM
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#7 (permalink) |
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Re: Discussing Taqlid
We have to take all our evidences from the Quran and the Sunnah, to make up our minds about any matter in Islam.
Allah [swt] says in the Quran that He will protect the Quran from corruption, and as a neccesity, this promise of protection also extends to the Sunnah, for the Sunnah is the Prophetic interpretation, and practical example of the Quran, which without, the Quran will not be able to fullfill it's purpose. So we can be sure that the correct interpretation of the Quran is out there. Also, what the promise of protection verse indicats to us is that, there would allways be a group of Muslims who wil be on the right path till the last day, for they will allways have the correct interpretation of the Quran. There is a hadith which says: ""There will always be a group from my Community that fight for truth and remain victorious until Judgment Day." Ijma - consensus of scholars which further corraborates this fact. So therefore, we should not think that the corect interpretation of Islam is lost or that all the traditional Muslims have gone astray. Now the Quranic and Sunnah evidence and a bit of common sense will easily lead us to the group of Muslims who have the orignal teachings of Islam and thus are on the right path. Allah says in the Quran "Hold fast to the rope of Allah, all of you, and do not split into factions" (3:103). The above verse shows that whoever splits away from the teachings of the traditonal Muslims and forms their own faction, or interpretation of the Quran, then they have gone astray for they have directly violated Allah's command of not to split into factions. And a bit of rationalising tells us that, if there will allways be a group of Muslims in the right path, then it has to be a traditonal group. So now to see which traditional group are on the right path. Again, the eivdence of that is found in the Quran and Sunah. In aditon to vers 3: 103, Allah also says in another verse: "Restrain thyself along with those who call upon their Lord at morning and evening, seeking his pleasure; and let not thine eyes overlook them, desiring the pomp of this worldly life; and obey not him whose heart We have made heedless of Our remembrance, who followeth his own lust and whose case has gone beyond all bounds." (18:29) The above verses show that we should not seperate ourselves from the main body of the traditional Muslims. Hadiths very clearly point out the same: "You have to follow the congregation for verily Allah will not make the largest group of Muhammad's community agree on error." "Verily Allah will not make my community -- or Muhammad's community -- agree on error, and Allah's hand is with the largest congregation." Tirmidhi said: "And the meaning of "jama`a" according to the people of knowledge is: the people of jurisprudence, learning, and hadith." "My community shall never agree upon misguidance, therefore, if you see divergences, you must follow the greater mass or larger group." Ijma - consensus of scholars The above hadiths are verry clear that the greatest mass/larger group of Muslims will be on the correct path. History also tells us that, the traditional Muslims who have not split up into factions and have allways remained with the main body of Muslims, have allways been the largest group [some broke away and formed the shia sec, some forme the mutazila sect, etc] The above hadiths shows us also that consensus can never be wrong, and they also indicate that, it is the consensus of the largest group of Muslims that the Prophet [saw] was reffering to. A bit of rationalisation and look into history, also tells us that consensus pertains to the largest group of Muslims. Here is how rationality indicate this: The Sahaba [ra], had consensus on many matters, then the Tabieen [the next generation of Muslims] had the same consensus, and the taba-tabieen [the next generation after the tabieen] had the same consensus, thereafter, some Muslims started to break up into factions, [if the shia's broke away before the three generations, then if they contradicted the Sahaba's consensus, they did not effect the consensus for their contradictory views are not valid, as they didn't keep to the righteous path of not disagreeing with consensus] and any faction that disagreed with any of the consensus' of the first three generation, such astray opinions of theirs weren't valid as they did not take heed of clear evidence that consensus' could not be wrong. Thus the consensus' of the main body of Muslims that did not beak up into faction, are the consensus' that remain so untill the last day. Mujtahids are major Scholars that are qualified to perform ijtihad, and there many Mujtahids in the early centurires...some Mujtahids learnt/gathered the comprehesive teachings of Islam and thus the laymen Mulims started to take all their teachings of of them...soon, all the traditional school of thuoghts died out, except the Hanafi, Hanbali, Shafi, Maaliki ones; [these four schools of thought have been verified and endorsed by the consensus of the Scholars as well] thus all the Scholars have prohibbited following any other schools of thought other than one of these four, for no other traditional School ha survived. The Prophet [saw] said: "Believe my Companions, then those who succeed them, and after that those who succeed the Successors. But after them falsehood will prevail when people will swear to the truth without having been asked to swear, and testify without having been asked to testify. Only those who seek the pleasures of Paradise will keep to the Congregation..." So there is evidence that the first three generations were upon righteous, and that is all the more reason to trust in the ijthad of the four great Imaams who were all from the third generation. Now that I have showed the way of the righteous path... |
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04-22-2007, 05:00 PM
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#8 (permalink) |
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Coexistence insha'Allah
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Re: Discussing Taqlid
As salaam alykum Brother Abdullah
Thank you for your posts, this is a most interesting conversation. Please be aware that I am not advocating throwing the rule books away and doing as we please but I have genuine concerns regarding blind following. The Rightly Guided Caliphs (called this because they followed in the Prophet Mohammads (pbuh) footsteps, encouraging education, rights for women, political and administrative behaviour, etc, etc). Abu Bakr 632-634 Umar 634-644 Uthman 644-656 Ali 656-661 So in reply to my concerns you quote the very traditionalists that I fear changed Islam. Abu Yusuf and Taymiyyah are of the latter time of the ‘closing of the gates’. Imam Abu Yusuf 1184-1119 Traditionalist Ibn Taymiyyah 1263-1328 Traditionalist The closing of the gates is a fact of history that cannot be denied, the scholars simply disagree as to which century this took place. So as we accept it took place, we must also accept that it caused an alteration and a diverting of the teachings (hence the number of sects). Of the four Sunnite legal schools, the Shafi'iyah, the Malikiyah, and the Hanafiyah all embrace taqlid, while the Hanabilah reject it. And what should a good Muslim woman do if she just happens to belong to the wrong school of thought? An example, the question of placing the condition of monogamy in a marriage contract and obtaining a divorce if her husband does marry a second wife. If you look this question up you will see the dilemma for women. Of the 4 schools, 1 rejects this outright saying women cannot place conditions on marriage and polygamy is allowed so no divorce. 1 accepts that conditions can be placed but as polygamy is allowed then the divorce is a no-no. and 2 state that both conditions apply. So is it just pot luck for us laypeople? If you belong to school number 1 you are seriously oppressed, number 2 slightly oppressed and number 3 & 4 lifes ok – phew picked the right one. This of course is just one minor example and I would like to hear your comments on how all of the schools can be right about this. Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) also informed them that this Ummah will be divided in 73 groups, one of which will be protected from hell, while the other 72 will be sects of bid'ah and dalalah. We must be very careful in avoiding getting involved in sects of bid'ah. I go back to my question – which one? To say the one with the majority of followers is a nonsense because even that is divided into differing schools of thought. Has anyone counted to see if there are 73 sects yet? |
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04-22-2007, 05:09 PM
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#9 (permalink) |
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Coexistence insha'Allah
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Re: Discussing Taqlid
Sorry if this looks wierd, have had problems with net connection so did it in word & pasted over.
I think we can both agree that Sheikh al-Alwani is a reliable source? I have included just a few of his credentials. This is a small cut & paste from a very lengthy paper he wrote on the subject we are discussing. I have underlined 2 pieces where the scholars disagree about the century of ‘the closing of the gates’ but they certainly both agree that it is historical fact. As you can see, Dr. Sheikh Taha Jabir al-Alwani, a leading Sunni Islamic thinker and jurist, who currently serves as the Chairman of the Fiqh (Jurisprudence) Council of North America. As the Mufti (Chief Legislator), al-Alwani faces important challenges of living and working as a member of a minority group in a Christian and ultra-modern environment. Having the expertise of an Al-AzharUniversity graduate in the Islamic sources. Sheikh Taha Jabir al-Alwani was born in 1935 to a Sunni family in Iraq. Sheikh al-Alwani's family name marks him as a related to the Abu Alwan clan who live in the vicinity of the Euphrates, not far from Baghdad. Al-Alwani was educated at Al-Azhar University in Cairo over a period of almost twenty years. In 1973 he submitted his doctorate on the roots of Muslim jurisprudence (Usul al-Fiqh)3, which best qualifies the candidate to become a Muslim legislator (Mufti). At the same time Al-Alwani gained experience as a chaplain and lecturer in the field of Islamic Studies teaching at Iraq's Military Academy between 1963 and 1969.4 Al-Alwani is a prolific writer who has published books on a variety of subjects in the areas of Law, Islamic legal tradition and Islamic thought; more specifically on the rights of the defendant, women's status, mixed marriages, finance, the stock market, Jihad, conflict resolution, democracy and other subjects. The Historical Justification for the Application of the Principle of Ijtihad Ijtihad and "The closing of the gates" Ijtihad is a traditio-historic Islamic concept, which signifies the independence of thought vis-à-vis religious rulings; the literal translation of the term is "effort" or "diligence". Islamic religious rulings must be based upon "the roots of the jurisprudence" (Usul al-Fiqh), which are the Koran, the oral traditions stemming from the prophet himself or traditions concerning his life (Sunnat al-Nabi, al-Hadith), syllogisms (Qiyas) and consensus among all Muslims (Ijma’). The use of syllogisms as a tool requires independent thought and is thus related to Ijtihad. The late Prof. Hava Lazarus-Yaffe defined the Islamic syllogism as “an analogy, or in other words the drawing of a logical conclusion on the basis of specific scriptures in the Koran or in the Sunnah, or on the basis of an analysis of the reasoning behind such scripture”. For example, the Koran expressly forbids the drinking of wine - other inebriating beverages are not mentioned. The prohibitions against drinking these other alcoholic beverages is learned by syllogism, or in other words by comparing these drinks to wine.22 The Ijtihad principle has gone through a change since it was first introduced as a principle, also known as "the closing of the gates of the Ijtihad". Without referring to it by name, Al-Alwani states "from the sixth century onwards nobody has made use of the Ijtihad principle as a tool of interpreting the Usul al-Fiqh…the science of Usul al-Fiqh has remained in the same place it was back in the sixth century."23 Not all scholars of Islam agree with this statement. In Schacht's opinion, the use of the Ijtihad principle was not restricted until the ninth century. When the traditions of that time were set, however, Muslims were required to accept the more established doctrines without question.24 According to Schacht, the formative period of Islamic Law came to its conclusion in the tenth century, with the formation of four accepted schools. From this moment onwards, the period of "Taqlid" (imitation) begins. A concise explanation of ‘the closing of the gates’ the restrictions placed on independent reasoning in the formulation of legal rules with the 'Closing of the Gates of Ijtihad' in the 10th Century. This episode in Islamic history has ultimately been blamed for the stagnation in Islamic thinking from that time onwards. Joseph Schacht, a specialist in Islamic legal history, narrates the consequences of the change, "By the beginning of the fourth century of the hijra [approx. A.D 900] .… the point had been reached when the scholars of all schools felt that all essential questions had been thoroughly discussed and finally settled, and a consensus gradually established itself to the effect that from that time onwards no one might be deemed to have the necessary qualifications for independent reasoning in law, and that all future activity would have to be confined to the explanation, application, and, at the most, interpretation of the doctrine as it had been laid down once and for all. This 'closing of the door of ijtihad, as it was called, amounted to the demand for taklid, a term … [which] came to mean the unquestioning acceptance of the doctrines of established schools and authorities." So some scholars agree that Ijtihad has not been used for a number of centuries now. Perhaps that is why Muslims under shari'a law still use the barbaric method of stoning rape victims to death? Would you call that justice? (even though there is not one single verse in the Quran to justify this abhorrent practice?) Do you see where I am going with this? To follow blindly is to accept what is now unacceptable and certainly not sanctioned by Allah. We are then left trying to explain ourselves, even to ourselves. Salaam |
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04-22-2007, 05:46 PM
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Coexistence insha'Allah
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Egypt
Posts: 2,636
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Re: Discussing Taqlid
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Agree 100%. I just don't agree that we must follow a school blindly, sinning if we ask questions. Quote:
I agree that Allah has protected the Quran but where does He say He will protect the hadiths? Yes the correct interpretation is out there but where? Quote:
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Forgive me but you seem to be making some rather sizeable assumptions saying the corroborates a fact. The Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) stated that there would be 73 sects but he did not tell us which one, so out of the 73 to choose from the odds are not very good at picking the right one. Quote:
Again, agree 100% but which one? You believe that you have chosen the right sect of 73 but must I believe that too because you say so? Quote:
Here I take you back to my question regarding conditions for marriage contract and divorce. They cannot all be on the right path. Either conditions are allowed and/or divorce under these conditions is allowed and/or they are not allowed and polygamy is the answer. To say they are all on the right path seems rather like blind following, imagine the conversation "we will all disagree but tell you to believe us all and you are not allowed to question that some of us might be wrong". Quote:
Oh I wish that the scholars had done that. Quote:
Please Brother, read that statement back to yourself. It was the scholars that split into factions, the ummah just followed, so the very people you insist we must trust to guide us have guided us off the right path. We have 4 schools of traditional thought, who regularly differ in opinion and no matter how many pretty words you put around it that = factions. Quote:
Forgive me again but the very point of this conversation is taqlid, which states we, the laypeople, must not rationalise. I agree 110% that it must be THE traditional group 'The Rightly Guided', we must return to their teachings. Quote:
So you do not see the 4 different schools with their sometimes opposing views as different factions? Is that like saying an apple, an orange and 2 bananas are all fruit? I will stop there or I shall just keep repeating myself. But what of the words of Allah warning us that doing things just because our fathers did is no defence. The verses of the Quran and hadiths that tell us not to follow blindly. Then we follow blindly because the scholars tell us that is what was meant? We must question or we do not learn. Quote:
Salaam |
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04-23-2007, 07:11 PM
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#11 (permalink) | |||||||
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General Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 248
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Re: Discussing Taqlid
Wa alaikum salam sister,
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If by 'closing of the gates' your reffering to the prohibition of laymen following any other School of thought other than the four School of thoughts, then that has been done for the following reason: Again, in Maraqi as-Sa’ud, Sidi Abdullah says, “The consensus today is on the four, and all have prohibited following [any] others.”He says in Nashru al-bunud, “This means that the consensus of the scholars today is on the four schools of thought, and I mean by the schools of Malik, Abu Hanifa, Shafi’i and Ahmad. Indeed, all of the scholars have prohibited following any other school of an independent and absolute mujtahid since the eighth century when the school of Dawud adh-Dhahiri died out and until the 12th Century and all subsequent ones.” Fatwa of Shaykh Murabtal Haaj on the issue of taqlid of the four Imams It seems following all other school of thoughts other than the four, has been prohibtted by consensus, because the other traditional Schools of though died out or were not comprehensive in their teachings. The statements below gives further indication of why the prohibition was implemented: After mentioning the pre-requsites of a Mujtahid, Shaykh Murabtal Haj says: "Therefore, you may follow anyone who fulfils these conditions mentioned above according to the soundest opinion. So, consider all of the above-mentioned, and may Allah have mercy upon you, and [may you] see for yourself whether your companion is characterized by such qualities and fulfils these conditions—and I highly doubt it. More likely, he is just pointing people to himself in his demands that the people of this age take their judgements directly from the Book and Sunna. If, on the other hand, he does not possess the necessary conditions, then further discussion is useless". Imam Illish says: "...It is not permissible for a common person to abandon following the four Imams and take directly from the textual sources of the Qur’an and the hadiths for the simple reason that this entails a great many conditions that have been clarified in the books of usul. Moreover, these conditions are rarely met by the great scholars, especially in these last days in which Islam has become a stranger just as it began a stranger.” Ibn Uyaynah says: “Also, they [the four Imams] took all of that from the students of the companions (tabi’in) who received their instruction from the companions themselves, who received their instructions from the Lawgiver himself, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, divinely protected from every mistake, who bore witness that the first three generations of Muslims would be ones of virtue and righteousness. Furthermore, the prophetic traditions have also reached us through their means given that they were also more knowledgeable than us through their means given that they were also more knowledgeable than those who came after them concerning the rigorously authenticated (sahih), the well authenticated (hasan), and the weak (da’if) channels of transmission, as well as the marfu’u4, mursal5, mutawatir6, ahad7, mu’dal8 and gharib9 transmissions...". If you mean by 'closing of the gates' that the practice of ijtihad has been stopped, that is not true, as people are free to study in the line of qualifying as a Mujtahid and thereafter, practice ijtihad, as the following statement in Shaykh Murabtal Haj's fatwa shows: I am in no way claiming that all ijtihad has been severed in every land; how [could I say such a thing] when [Sidi Abdullah] says in Maraqi as-sa’ud:“The earth will never be void of a mujtahid scholar until its very foundations shake.”Fatwa of Shaykh Murabtal Haaj on the issue of taqlid of the four Imams Quote:
But what about Abu Hanifa's statement that endorses taqlid? surely that is clear evidence that the great Mujtahid Imam was pro-taqlid? Quote:
There is only two kind of 'closing of the gates' that took place, and that is the kind that prohibts the laymen from following any other school than the traditional four, and that was done for reasons of other traditional Schools dynig out, or not being comprehensive in their teachings, and because it is unlikely for the general Scholars to be a Jurist with all the pre-requisites of a jury that is needed, thus if the door of allowing laymen to follow other school of thoughts is left open, than many unscrupulous and deviant Scholars will lead many astray by claiming they are worthy of being followed. Even despite their being a traditional consensus on the prohibition, yet such deviant schools have propped up and are leading many Muslims who dont know any better, astray, so just imagine what would have happened if there was no prohibition to such a thing? ...And the other kind was of 'picking and choosing' from all four madhabs, and that was for reasons of closing the gates to following one's desires. Prohibition of following any other absolute Mujtahid other than the four Schools have not lead to any alteration or divertion of the teachings. If anything, they have prevented a lot of diversions and alterations than the one's there are now in the deviant schools that have propped up Quote:
Hanbali's do not reject Taqlid, it is the Wahhabi's that reject it and purport it to be a Hanbali view. Quote:
The door to 'picking and choosing according to one's desire' has to stay locked, so therefore it is not allowed to 'pick and choose' from the different school of thought. However, in certain circumstances, it is allowed to 'convert' to another madhab, and one of these circumstances is, if a couple belong to two different madhabs, then one of them can convert to their partners one, in order to be compatiable together as man and wife, there may be other simmilar circumstances as well. Shaykh Abdullah Bin Bayyah, who is a faqih of the Maaliki madhab, specialises in contemporary fiqh [of minorites] and he has said that in the west, Muslims are allowed to adopt views from the other three schools of thought, but only in matters where there are genuine need, due to the difficulties which life in the west presents for the muslims. Quote:
Heres a hadith in which the Prophet [saw] says about the 73 sects: "The Holy Prophet Muhammmed [sm] said: "There was disagreement amongst the Jews and they split into 72 groups. In exactly the same way, their will be disagreements and divisions in my Ummah. It will split into 73 groups. Apart from one of those groups, all the remaining 72 will be thrown into hell". When asked which group will be on the right path, the Holy Prophet muhammed [sm] replied: "The group on the right path, which will enter Paradise, will be the group that follows my Sunnah and that of the Sahabah [ra] AND THIS WILL BE THE LARGEST GROUP OF MUSLIMS" [Tirmidhi, Abu Dawood, Imaam Ahmed, Mishkat]. So the correct sect being the largest group of Muslims is nonsense is it? Quote:
Differences of opinions are a mercy to the Ummah of muhammad [saw] and all the four schools of thought accept that all the differences of opinions amnogst them are valid, thus they are one united group. Even the Sahabah [ra] had differences of opinions. Here's more evidence of the correct group of muslims that are on the right path: "Allah's hand is over the group, follow the largest mass, for verily whoever dissents from them, departs to hell" [narrated by Al-Hakim and Al-Tabari from Ibn Abbas [ra] and al-Lalika'i in al-Sunnah and al-Hakim also narrated it from Ibn Umar ra] "You have to follow the congregation [Jama'a] for verily Allah will not make the largest group of Muhammed's [sm] community [Ummah] agree on error" [Ibn Abi Shaybah related it with a Sahih chain] "Verily Allah will not make my community - or Muhammed's [sm] community - agree on error, and Allah's hand is with the largest congregation" [Tirmidhi, #2256] And the meaning of 'jama'a' [congregation] that is used in the above hadiths is: The people of jurisprudence, learning and hadith [i.e., the Scholars] And the meaning of 'Ummah' [community] that is used in the preceding hadiths is: It means the overwhelming majority of the Muslims, This is the prevailing view, confirmed by many hadiths of the Sahabas [ra] and also by the hadiths of the Prophet [sm] on "Jama'a" and "sawad al-azam" [the vast majority] "Allah's hand is over the group" [Tirmidhi, Hasan] al-Munawi [ra] said: "Allah's hand is over the group means His protection and preservation for them, signifynig that the collectivity of the people of Islam are in Allah's folds, so be also in Allah's shelter, in the midst of them, and do not seperate yourselves from them. Whoever diverges from the overwhelming majority concerning what is lawfull and unlawfull and on which the community does not differ, has slipped of the path of guidance and this will lead him to hell" Salaam |
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