Do viruses have souls?

[Silverbackman]

For all you people that believe all life have souls (not just humans), what do you think of viruses? Scientists consider viruses neither living nor dead because they share only some characteristics of life.

In my opinion viruses are half soul, as they are in between living and dead. What do you think?

[Agnideva]

Originally Posted by Silverbackman

what do you think of viruses?

I don't like them ... especially when they give me nasty colds and flus!

Scientists consider viruses neither living nor dead because they share only some characteristics of life.

Yeah, they do have RNA or DNA for their genetic material, but they are obligate parasites. They can't replicate without a host. Also they can't be classified under any of the kingdoms.

In my opinion viruses are half soul, as they are in between living and dead. What do you think?

I am abstaining from voting, but just curious ... why half, why not 1/1000th or something like that?

[_Z_]

There’s an alternative way of looking at this:



If you replaced half of your body with robotic elements, then would you be half a soul? – I would say no. At what point would you become nothing if you kept adding robotic or synthetic elements!



The same can be said for the human foetus – at what point does it not have a soul? [there are no points!] I would say that we should think of it as spirit and say it is in all things equally! - the soul is the Ether ‘body’.



On a basic level, single celled life-forms die and are reborn - there is no difference to them in each state, they belong to the threefold formula of oneness i.e. the singular according to shape [infinity = one, quantum = singular {or with germs etc single form} universal oneness = all as a whole]. The holy trinity of primordial life eh!



Z

[wil]

Sure could address the concerns of where all these souls come from as the population increases...ie maybe we start as viruses...graduate to some one celled organism, into the plant kingdom and then the insect field and on up the ladder??

But if they do, I sorta reject the percentage thought, as of now...

[Silverbackman]

Originally Posted by Agnideva

I don't like them ... especially when they give me nasty colds and flus!


Yeah, they do have RNA or DNA for their genetic material, but they are obligate parasites. They can't replicate without a host. Also they can't be classified under any of the kingdoms.


I am abstaining from voting, but just curious ... why half, why not 1/1000th or something like that?

Yea I don't like them either! Then again I don't like many bacterias as well .

If scientists wanted to they can classify thrm as their own kingdom but I think most scientists are oppose to the idea?

Why half? Well I probably should just say parts soul part not but since they sort of equally have characteristics of life and no characteristics of life I think half will do .

Originally Posted by _Z_

There’s an alternative way of looking at this:



If you replaced half of your body with robotic elements, then would you be half a soul? – I would say no. At what point would you become nothing if you kept adding robotic or synthetic elements!



The same can be said for the human foetus – at what point does it not have a soul? [there are no points!] I would say that we should think of it as spirit and say it is in all things equally! - the soul is the Ether ‘body’.



On a basic level, single celled life-forms die and are reborn - there is no difference to them in each state, they belong to the threefold formula of oneness i.e. the singular according to shape [infinity = one, quantum = singular {or with germs etc single form} universal oneness = all as a whole]. The holy trinity of primordial life eh!



Z

If you became a robot you would still have a soul because;

1. You started out as life.

2. You still have organic matter on you (probably your brain in a glass tube).

3. You may loose some characteristics of life like the ability to reproduce but if we were to say that you lost your "life" the a mule can't be considered life either since most are sterile .

Originally Posted by wil

Sure could address the concerns of where all these souls come from as the population increases...ie maybe we start as viruses...graduate to some one celled organism, into the plant kingdom and then the insect field and on up the ladder??

But if they do, I sorta reject the percentage thought, as of now...

Perhaps "God" creates new souls. The universe maybe finite but we don't know how much energy he has. When a species or whatever becomes too numerous, "God" may cause a natural disaster to keep an overpopulated species or kingdom in line.

[aged hippy]

Originally Posted by wil

Sure could address the concerns of where all these souls come from as the population increases...ie maybe we start as viruses...graduate to some one celled organism, into the plant kingdom and then the insect field and on up the ladder??

But if they do, I sorta reject the percentage thought, as of now...

That is precisely how i think it works, Wil.

It seems to me that a virus is the first step on the ladder of evolution - physical and spiritual.

So yes, i think that a virus has a soul - albeit a very rudimentary one.

[Agnideva]

Originally Posted by _Z_

The same can be said for the human foetus – at what point does it not have a soul? [there are no points!] I would say that we should think of it as spirit and say it is in all things equally! - the soul is the Ether ‘body’.

Z, this is similar to the way I think about it too. The Spirit is One, although we may speak of it being "embodied" or bound up in layers of sheaths. It is truly beyond material substance, beyond dimension, beyond ones and twos.

Originally Posted by Silver

Then again I don't like many bacterias as well

Tapeworms ... I don't like tapeworms much either (can't say i've ever had them, but certainly don't like the idea) .

If scientists wanted to they can classify thrm as their own kingdom but I think most scientists are oppose to the idea?

Scientists oppose classifying virus in a kingdom, I think, mainly because viruses cannot grow and reproduce outside of a host cell. So, although they are not considered a 'lifeform', they do have a 'life cycle' . It's like they're 'alive' when within the host, but 'dead' when they're outside.

Regards,
A.

[wil]

How would scientists classify us without our host?

Mother Earth, our biosphere, the ethers, our atmosphere...sometimes we seem sort of viral, sort of parasitical...definitions....

[_Z_]

Really in the end, is it not so that there is only life? ['death cannot be experienced']

I look at landscapes and mountains and see spirit! then we may ask, what if man finds a way to create living computers i.e. organic computers? I would say that if they were as powerful a human brains then they would have spirit like us, but would there be an ‘it’ factor [‘I’]? Then perhaps the very ‘it’ is created by the presence of a complexity of thought [the brain operating].

Once created then it can transmigrate past death into a new womb? Perhaps the inner self is developed over countless lifetimes. Then if you have a population explosion, you will require ‘new souls’?

Hmm it becomes a question of what comes first, the inner self as a mirror of ‘god’ as ever-being, or the physical form in which it becomes one. My present line of thinking is thus: everything begins at one/infinity, whatever transformations occur in form and formlessness are in a kind of synchronicity - ‘like attracts like’ - as they are connected in universal time. Thence,’ whatever we weave is replicated in spirit, then whatever is weaved in spirit is replicated in form’! ‘it cannot be seen in parts’!



Wil,



that is true! A transmigrating soul could be seen as parasitical!

Z

[I, Brian]

If we are saying that all living things are connected/expressions of God, then I'd suggest in addition that not all things that are living are necessarily classed as living by science.

[Thomas]

If we further say that God is 'Absolute Being' (or even Beyond-Being) then everything that is, 'is' by virtue of the fact it partakes of being.

In the Abrahamic Traditions, and in Hellenic philosophy, the same metaphysical principles apply - so much so that some of the Fathers thought Plato had been in receipt of the Mosaic Revelation.

When God spoke to Moses from the burning bush He said "I am that I am", and later simply "I am".

Thus God identifies himself as the Principle of Being.

The modes or degrees of being the Hebrews delineated by the quality of the soul, in that that soul is the essence of a given mode of being, and as such determines its possibility and its perfection.

In this sense all being has a soul, but 'living' is a particular quality that is not necessarily present in all souls (ie minerals), and furthermore those qualities by which science, say, determines something as 'living' might be present in rudimentary or complex form. The five senses, for example, can be seen in a vestigial sense in the simplest organisms, but these organisms do not 'see' or 'hear' in the sense that we understand them.

So I would say yes, viruses have souls, but that does not mean they are possessed of the same qualities as a human, or animal soul - they partake of being, but in a very limited and one might say 'mechanical' fashion.

Thomas

[wil]

Doesn't omnipotence and omnipresence indicate that all matter, organic or inorganic is God expressing ...over here as a human, over there as a mountain or a tree, under your feet as carpet, right in front of you as a monitor...and with each click you see another expression of God.

Isn't the doctor with his miracles of surgery, or psychiatry or accupuncture expressing God through him/her for us?

Isn't the factory that created the drywall or shingles and the carpenter that installed them or the realtor that sold them to you expressing their potential as God to allow you to live in shelter and express as God yourself?

Doesn't that virus, show you where you are not completely taking care of yourself...and maybe you need to boost your immune system in order so you may express better? Like a teacher who gives you 78% on a test...she didn't give you 78%, you did, she simply pointed out your weakness, your error. She is expressing as God to help you express better...is not the virus doing the same thing.

So as we are in bed, with the fever, and jumping up not knowing which end is most urgently heading for the bathroom ...

Thank you God....

[I am free]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

If we are saying that all living things are connected/expressions of God, then I'd suggest in addition that not all things that are living are necessarily classed as living by science.

I really like it Brian that you can say so much in just one line.

In the physical world we can so clearly identify the boundaries between different organisms. We can classify objects as belonging to one type or the other. I wonder if this is really possible in the "soul world". Do souls have "soul walls"? Are there really zillions of seperate souls?

Or is seperateness an illusion? Just one being, one supersoul existing in all?

I like the second idea, but then I really dont know.

[VikingF]

Originally Posted by Silverbackman

For all you people that believe all life have souls (not just humans), what do you think of viruses? Scientists consider viruses neither living nor dead because they share only some characteristics of life.

In my opinion viruses are half soul, as they are in between living and dead. What do you think?

Since my definition of "soul" is awareness, I voted "no".
I think viruses have no awareness/soul.


And this is why I define soul as awareness: The awareness can only be at one place at time, therefore it's undividable. Soul is usually looked at as the "part" of the creature which is undividable, hence soul in my dictionary is awareness.

[Silverbackman]

Originally Posted by VikingF

Since my definition of "soul" is awareness, I voted "no".
I think viruses have no awareness/soul.


And this is why I define soul as awareness: The awareness can only be at one place at time, therefore it's undividable. Soul is usually looked at as the "part" of the creature which is undividable, hence soul in my dictionary is awareness.

Hmmm.......actually you bring up a good point. I classify souls as awareness too but viruses, bacteria, protista, fungi, plants, and a tiny amount of animal species as well are not aware. Worms are one of the lowest levels of awareness because they have such a small brain, but should we let any life lower off the list because they lack awareness? But do they lack awareness? Perhaps having DNA sort of gives them a very very very low awareness, perhaps they sense things strictly in terms of the ID of the mind except ID in DNA.