Do we (Muslims, Christians and Jews) believe in the same God or not? - Page 14

pfw · 02-01-2007, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas

I'm going to safely assume that you have yet to study or even read the Bible through.

Because I disagree with you I'm obviously ignorant? (Ignorant meaning unaware of any relevent infomation or unknowlegable rather than stupid). Yes I have read the Bible, thankyou, yes I was brought up a Christian too. I was mearly pointing out that the Christian viewpoint (which is only ever backed up with Christian scripture, never a single scrap of evidence from 'outside'-as in all religion) isn't the only possible interpritation of the Gospels. And, because you may be ignorant (same meaning as above) of this point, just because something (in this case an interpritation of the Gospels) is 'with merrit' doesn't mean it is 'true'. Taking an example from science the theory of 'the universe as static' model was a theory with 'merrit' and fit the observable data at the time. It was later replaced with the 'big bang' theory when better observation equipment was available and new data became available. As for your statement that the only way to God is through the Son (Jesus), just on a quick look through the Gospel of Matthew (using the 'Authorised King James version), here's Christs words on the subject of being worthy or unworthy of gaining Heaven; Chpt5:6-9. Chpt 6:19-21. Chpt 7:1-2 (something we all need to remind ourselves of). Chpt 7:21-23. Chpt 12:31-32 (to blasphem against the Son Of Man is forgivable in this world and the next...). Chpt 12:50. Chpt 15:17-18 (that which is in mens hearts is what corrupts man). Chpt 19:16-19. Chpt 19:25-26. Chpt 21:28-31. Chpt 22:35-40. Chpt 25:33-40.

Silas · 02-01-2007, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pfw

Because I disagree with you I'm obviously ignorant? (Ignorant meaning unaware of any relevent infomation or unknowlegable rather than stupid). Yes I have read the Bible, thankyou, yes I was brought up a Christian too. I was mearly pointing out that the Christian viewpoint (which is only ever backed up with Christian scripture, never a single scrap of evidence from 'outside'-as in all religion) isn't the only possible interpritation of the Gospels. And, because you may be ignorant (same meaning as above) of this point, just because something (in this case an interpritation of the Gospels) is 'with merrit' doesn't mean it is 'true'. Taking an example from science the theory of 'the universe as static' model was a theory with 'merrit' and fit the observable data at the time. It was later replaced with the 'big bang' theory when better observation equipment was available and new data became available. As for your statement that the only way to God is through the Son (Jesus), just on a quick look through the Gospel of Matthew (using the 'Authorised King James version), here's Christs words on the subject of being worthy or unworthy of gaining Heaven; Chpt5:6-9. Chpt 6:19-21. Chpt 7:1-2 (something we all need to remind ourselves of). Chpt 7:21-23. Chpt 12:31-32 (to blasphem against the Son Of Man is forgivable in this world and the next...). Chpt 12:50. Chpt 15:17-18 (that which is in mens hearts is what corrupts man). Chpt 19:16-19. Chpt 19:25-26. Chpt 21:28-31. Chpt 22:35-40. Chpt 25:33-40.

OK. Lets take all of this stuff a little at a time. You want to talk about proof of scripture outside of scripture, thats cool. What is your question? As for you reading the Bible. I didnt say you didnt, I just said you have not read it all the way through and have not studied it. I can tell by the questions you asked before and the ones at the bottom of what you said above. Again, we can discuss them if you like...a little at a time. K?

pfw · 02-01-2007, 08:51 PM

I have no objection to people pointing out were I've made an error, I've no objections to an exchange of views, information or opinions-I've had a few (friendly) run-ins with Thomas already. But that's not what you do so; no, not in open forum any way- private message me and I'll discuss this subject with you. To end this post on a positive note-your posting on my thread 'Question about The Christian Bible' was exactly the kind of answer I was looking for, so thanks for that- are these versions of the Bible available to buy or online?

Silas · 02-01-2007, 08:52 PM

Hey, I really respect your willingness to speak in PM! As for the different versions, yep...you can get them online.

wil · 02-01-2007, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pfw

are these versions of the Bible available to buy or online?

I like biblegateway.com to look at various versions of the bible...I'd love to find a source where you can look at them side by side like parallel bibles...

When I want to look at a larger variety of info nothing beats bahai ocean!

paganprophet · 05-20-2007, 07:10 AM

I don't know where you all are at in this discussion but I'd thought I'd put my two-cents in anyway.

I don't think Abrahamic worshippers have a clue as to what gods they worship. They've been handed so much malarky by the writers of holy books that they are all completely confused, each thinking they've got a corner on God's identity and Plan.

Well, that's why the Big Guy periodically sends in guys like me to "make straight the Path of God in the bewilderness.."

Saltmeister · 05-21-2007, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paganprophet

I don't know where you all are at in this discussion but I'd thought I'd put my two-cents in anyway.

I don't think Abrahamic worshippers have a clue as to what gods they worship. They've been handed so much malarky by the writers of holy books that they are all completely confused, each thinking they've got a corner on God's identity and Plan.

Well, that's why the Big Guy periodically sends in guys like me to "make straight the Path of God in the bewilderness.."

Surprise me if you really are a prophet. Otherwise it's all just an act. Life is a stage. Each of us is just an actor. You, "paganprophet" have an online identity. I make of it what I will.

Speaking of identities, and speaking of God's identity, I couldn't agree more. God's identity has been scrambled a million times over. Ok, that might be an exaggeration. But how does one go about identifying God? Where is He? How do we catch God? What kind of net do we use?

But I believe it's not all lost. God gave us minds. Let's work this out together. Let's draw pictures and concept maps. Write stories to try out ideas. Perform thought experiments. Propose theories. Debate and argue with them.

P. S. Methinks following Jesus is pretty hard. Following an invisible man around to find the invisible God is pretty mind-wracking. I need a Messiah and a God I can see. Paganprophet!!! Maybe this is where you come in!!! Maybe it's time to give up the search for the invisible and go for something visible.

What say you to that?

paganprophet · 05-21-2007, 08:49 PM

Been there, done that..and nobody cared but my friends and about 500 Nazareans who want me back.

Saltmeister · 05-22-2007, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paganprophet

Been there, done that..and nobody cared but my friends and about 500 Nazareans who want me back.

So what's your story so far? What have you seen? What have you heard? What have you been told?

What churches, mosques and synagogues have you visited?

What are your current beliefs?

paganprophet · 05-22-2007, 03:23 AM

If I tell you one of the things which he told me, you will pick up stones and throw them at me; a fire will come out of the stones and burn you up.

paganprophet · 05-22-2007, 03:31 AM

and do not think to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

Saltmeister · 05-22-2007, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paganprophet

If I tell you one of the things which he told me, you will pick up stones and throw them at me; a fire will come out of the stones and burn you up.

1) Who's "he"?

2) Burn me? What have I done???!!!#$&*&#^$&*(&(

Quote:

Originally Posted by paganprophet

and do not think to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

3) Where's the new tree and what does it look like? Have the first three trees failed?

Oh I see . . . you're the prophet, you give us your message, we stone you and I get burnt for blasphemy and disobedience.

paganprophet · 05-22-2007, 08:15 PM

Saltmeister(!), my posts above are somewhat in jest as they are quotes from the Gospel of Thomas and Matthew. But they do point to a problem us prophets face which is attracting critics, some of who in the past have seen fit to stop the big mouth of God with not so pleasant means.

I would be quite willing to tell all here on these boards but I can't without first making some sort of truce with Brian re proselytizing. You'd be amazed how easy it is for us prophet types to piss off religious forum owners.

Dondi · 05-22-2007, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

I like biblegateway.com to look at various versions of the bible...I'd love to find a source where you can look at them side by side like parallel bibles...

When I want to look at a larger variety of info nothing beats bahai ocean!

Have you tried this?

Studylight Parallel Bible

wil · 05-22-2007, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

Have you tried this?

Studylight Parallel Bible

No, well now yes, and I like it!

thanx!!