Do we (Muslims, Christians and Jews) believe in the same God or not?

[ardenz]

As an Ex(indoctrinated) Christian who is trying to get a clearer picture of reality, I think it rather a frightening idea for there to be as many Gods as there are Religious beliefs.
I mean, do they have conversations out there in their various heavens?
As someone with Athiest sympathies - I prefer one God to many. We all just wear different glasses - some wear shades - some rosetinted- some have got the wrong prescription

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by paganprophet

Saltmeister(!), my posts above are somewhat in jest as they are quotes from the Gospel of Thomas and Matthew. But they do point to a problem us prophets face which is attracting critics, some of who in the past have seen fit to stop the big mouth of God with not so pleasant means.

I would be quite willing to tell all here on these boards but I can't without first making some sort of truce with Brian re proselytizing. You'd be amazed how easy it is for us prophet types to piss off religious forum owners.

Yes, your words did ring a bell . . . hence the last line.

With regards to prophesying (as opposed to proselytizing), it's kind of hard to take that kind of thing seriously. The Gospels have already been written and 2,000 years have passed since the legendary Christ/Messiah.

I guess that's why I might be going to hell . . .

It's hard for me to tell whether you're serious or whether this is just a game. But now that we've started . . . we kind of have to keep the dice rolling and strive towards the finish. I'm a bit curious about how the game might play out.

I would really like to know how to play this Be-The-Prophet game.

I don't recall anyone here at CR or in my offline reality ever claiming to be a Prophet. The closest thing were a bunch of Latter-Day Saints appearing at our doorstep proclaiming that they had a Prophet!!!

Of course, if you really do have such beliefs (belief in yourself as a prophet), I guess it would be ok to just share them. I'm assuming there's a difference between sharing personal beliefs and going further to actually proselyte. I think it'd be especially interesting since I'm new to the kind of paradigm you are hinting at. Increasing knowledge and awareness doesn't sound like a dangerous endeavour to me -- the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil has already been eaten. What further harm could it do?

Perhaps you dwell in a forum where people with similar beliefs converse? If so, could you point me in the right direction? I spend most of my time in the Abrahamic forums. From time to time I visit the Belief/Spirituality and Politics/Society forums . . . but there's only so much time to explore . . .

[paganprophet]

I would need to hear from Brian on this, Salt. I am serious and I have had the experience several times of trying to share my particular prophesies and having myself booted off for proselytizing even though I tell everyone up-front this is my personal belief system--I'm not looking for any converts to my personal beliefs--However, there is a problem there too because one my major prophesies is pointing to a new religion not my own personal one but a new universal Abrahamic one that is quite simple yet changes everything. It is impossible for me to share my own personal beliefs without sharing this prophesy too--so I don't know where that leaves us talking about it freely here..

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by paganprophet

I would need to hear from Brian on this, Salt. I am serious and I have had the experience several times of trying to share my particular prophesies and having myself booted off for proselytizing even though I tell everyone up-front this is my personal belief system--I'm not looking for any converts to my personal beliefs--However, there is a problem there too because one my major prophesies is pointing to a new religion not my own personal one but a new universal Abrahamic one that is quite simple yet changes everything. It is impossible for me to share my own personal beliefs without sharing this prophesy too--so I don't know where that leaves us talking about it freely here..

Understood.

I make (implicitly, but often without saying it, as I assume it's understood) a distinction between proselytising and sharing of personal beliefs. That's mainly because I see proselytising as something impersonal and an attempt to manipulate. It's usually an attempt to align someone to an organisation, creed or ideology.

With personal beliefs, it's usually a matter of sharing one's views. I was therefore, only asking for your view, or more correctly, for you to describe you "universe" or "reality" to me.

But I suppose there are times when personal views/beliefs can become threatening, so there's a possibility of "crossing the line" with personal views.

The experiences I've had at CR have shaped my views/beliefs on the sharing of views/beliefs. My experiences have led me to believe that views/beliefs that are "beliefs for me" and not "beliefs for others" might perhaps be safe to share. It is the "beliefs for others" that I suppose might be dangerous/threatening.

Anyway, at this point, I perhaps should not push the issue.

I noticed in your posts a Be-The-Prophet mentality and I was wondering if it was a joke, just a game (sarcasm and humour about Jesus and Messiah/Prophet figures) or if you were really serious about it. My intention then was to ask what your life story and personal life experiences were and what this meant to you as a person. I was also curious about how you fitted in with the Abrahamic faiths.

Originally Posted by paganprophet

However, there is a problem there too because one my major prophesies is pointing to a new religion not my own personal one but a new universal Abrahamic one that is quite simple yet changes everything.

Now, that is starting to sound quite radical . . . I think I understand you better now. Contemplating and speculating about the purpose of the Abrahamic faiths could land one in hot water . . . If you're talking about an "Abrahamic Dream" of some sort, it might be good to signal that it's a "beliefs for me" thing -- ie. your Abrahamic Dream.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by paganprophet

I would need to hear from Brian on this, Salt. I am serious and I have had the experience several times of trying to share my particular prophesies and having myself booted off for proselytizing even though I tell everyone up-front this is my personal belief system--I'm not looking for any converts to my personal beliefs--However, there is a problem there too because one my major prophesies is pointing to a new religion not my own personal one but a new universal Abrahamic one that is quite simple yet changes everything. It is impossible for me to share my own personal beliefs without sharing this prophesy too--so I don't know where that leaves us talking about it freely here..

Try leaving the word "prophecy" out of the equation. "This is what I think is going to happen", is a speculation. We all entertain speculations. But when one states "this will happen" with an aire of authority...eh, then one gets into the prophecy business.

We don't need prophets here. We have quite enough intelligent thinkers who did not fall off the turnip cart last night, and realize the way things are going.

In short, preaching to the choir is a waste of time and energy.

v/r

Q

[Dondi]

Perhaps you could state your prophesies and then explain why you think they are true, with the understanding that they would be open to scrutiny and rebuttal.

[paganprophet]

Love to, but will it get me kicked off CR if I do?

[ardenz]

I'd like to hear your prophecies. I have a few too, myself.

[paganprophet]

Where is Brian in this? I still haven't heard from the owner of this forum.

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Try leaving the word "prophecy" out of the equation. "This is what I think is going to happen", is a speculation. We all entertain speculations. But when one states "this will happen" with an aire of authority...eh, then one gets into the prophecy business.

We don't need prophets here. We have quite enough intelligent thinkers who did not fall off the turnip cart last night, and realize the way things are going.

In short, preaching to the choir is a waste of time and energy.

v/r

Q

Sorry about that. I was just wondering what paganprophet had been hinting at in the last few posts. At first I thought it was a sarcasm/humour about Messiahs/Prophets and that he was impersonating one as a joke. It turns out that he might have views on possible/potential present-day "prophets." I thought that might be interesting.

Of course, according to traditional Christian/Islamic belief, all necessary prophets have come and gone.

Yet, an interesting question is how a person qualifies as an apostle, assuming prophets and apostles are practically the same thing (interchangeable words), prophets coming before the Messiah, and apostles after the Messiah, as in Christianity/Islam. Examples -- Peter, James, Paul and John in Christianity. Is there a formal declaration?

A conventional/traditional and dogmatic/doctrinal use of the word "apostle" would be similar to the way we use the word "saint." But let's suppose I was not adhering to the traditional use of the words "prophet," "apostle" or "saint" (as examples). I believe religious words like that can have a more abstract meaning.

The Catholic use of the word "saint" (correct me if I'm wrong) might refer to a person who has served as part of the clergy. The more abstract meaning of "saint," however, is one of God's people. So you and I are saints (so far as we believe). Prophets and apostles as we know them are regarded as such by tradition, yet the exact definition of what makes them prophets and apostles has never been given. There are theories, but these theories are debatable as they impose limits on the meaning of the words "prophet" and "apostle."

There are possibly, present-day equivalents of Paul, Peter, James and John who aren't called prophets and apostles. Yet their lives may be similar to their ancient counterparts. Despite their deeds, their devotion and dedication to the cause of their faith, they simply haven't been given the same level of recognition as their ancient counterparts.

I know the purpose of tradition -- it's to stop us from thinking too much, not to imprison or enslave us (but yet that is often what tradition has done to people).

What I was interested in, however, was paganprophet's perspective on prophethood and apostlehood. What was his/her "reality?" I wasn't asking for a "beliefs for others" perspective, but a "beliefs for me" perspective.

That kind of prompted me to explore the CR site a bit further . . . these views might be discussed on some other forum. I usually look for threads/forums that are relevant to me, and as a result haven't explored the kinds of views paganprophet might have explored.

Originally Posted by paganprophet

Where is Brian in this? I still haven't heard from the owner of this forum.

I think Quahom speaking might be a signal for us to switch to another channel. You've been paged/PMed.

[paganprophet]

I am in the process of re-doing my website where all will be revealed. I've had to do this because I installed an Arabic language translation software program and it acted like a virus and royally screwed up my computer. Even after three hours on the phone with the software tech we couldn't uninstall the program. I finally ended up getting a new (used e-Bay job for 122.50 plus shipping) and had to reinstall my website that has a zillion pages each with internal hyperlinks all having to be reinstalled too.

I should be done within a week and will of course let you all come see the Impossible Apostle at work. That is if I'm still here and not kicked out of CR by Brian for proselytizing.

Re Apostles vs. Prophets. Don't know how to answer that one either as I consider myself as "one sent" but also one bearing prophesies. Either way I'm in hot water with trads..

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Saltmeister

The Catholic use of the word "saint" (correct me if I'm wrong) might refer to a person who has served as part of the clergy. The more abstract meaning of "saint," however, is one of God's people. So you and I are saints (so far as we believe). Prophets and apostles as we know them are regarded as such by tradition, yet the exact definition of what makes them prophets and apostles has never been given. There are theories, but these theories are debatable as they impose limits on the meaning of the words "prophet" and "apostle."


I know the purpose of tradition -- it's to stop us from thinking too much, not to imprison or enslave us (but yet that is often what tradition has done to people).

What I was interested in, however, was paganprophet's perspective on prophethood and apostlehood. What was his/her "reality?" I wasn't asking for a "beliefs for others" perspective, but a "beliefs for me" perspective.

That kind of prompted me to explore the CR site a bit further . . . these views might be discussed on some other forum. I usually look for threads/forums that are relevant to me, and as a result haven't explored the kinds of views paganprophet might have explored.



I think Quahom speaking might be a signal for us to switch to another channel. You've been paged/PMed.

lol, a saint is:

1. somebody honored by church after death: a member of a religion who after death is formally designated as having led a life of exceptional holiness

2. somebody in heaven: somebody who goes to heaven after death

3. virtuous person: a particularly good or holy person, or one who is exceptionally kind and patient in dealing with difficult people or situations

Guess that means moderators...

but we do not stop you from thinking or expressing self. We simply watch out for you, that no one else will attempt to corral your thoughts, by playing god...

v/r

Q

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

lol, a saint is:

1. somebody honored by church after death: a member of a religion who after death is formally designated as having led a life of exceptional holiness

2. somebody in heaven: somebody who goes to heaven after death

3. virtuous person: a particularly good or holy person, or one who is exceptionally kind and patient in dealing with difficult people or situations

Guess that means moderators...

but we do not stop you from thinking or expressing self. We simply watch out for you, that no one else will attempt to corral your thoughts, by playing god...

v/r

Q

Do you have to have all three qualities to be a saint (dead, in heaven, and virtuous)?

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by Dondi

Do you have to have all three qualities to be a saint (dead, in heaven, and virtuous)?

1. Disagree . . . what if a person is recognised by God but not by Man? Is that person still a saint?

2. Agree!!!!

3. Agree!!!! (up to a certain extent): could there be lesser saints like us who don't always do what we should . . . but make an effort to do it?

One more thing . . . couldn't we be "saints" while we're still alive? ie. lesser/partial saints, partially reborn?

[smkolins]

Originally Posted by paganprophet

one my major prophesies is pointing to a new religion not my own personal one but a new universal Abrahamic one that is quite simple yet changes everything.

Really!

Any candidates?